The Bishops oppose Catholic Universities offering extended benefits to same sex spouses of their employees

[Hoosier_Daddy]

Aware you aware that prostitution and fornication are different? Clearly a cohabiting unmarried couple shouldn’t be able to give benefits, nor should a couple where one has been married twice without an annulment and the first spouse yet lives.

agreed

 

[Valdemar]

“Homos”? Even though we may disagree with lifestyle, homosexuals are still due the same basic common courtesy that is due all our brothers and sisters. We, as Catholics, should know this.

If people practicing the homosexual lifestyle insist on affirming themselves as a separate and special class of people practicing a lifestyle they seek to perpetuate, no, they aren’t.

Their status as practicing homosexuals deserves no respect at all.

In fact, as such they should be marginalized as much as possible within the law.

Better yet, they should be prosecuted under relevant law where it still exists and where it does not exist, new laws should be drafted and passed to keep such activity at the very least outside of the public arena.

The notion that everybody “deserves” to be respected no matter what lifestyle they choose to live is utterly absurd, especially if that chosen lifestyle has to do with the adamant proselytizing for, protection of and affirmation of gravely sinful and evil lifestyles such as homosexuality.

 

[SAVINGRACE]

If Catholic Universities are already doing it then it’s kinda hypocritical of other Catholic institutions such as hospitals to cry foul when it comes to including birth control in their employee health plans.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

If people practicing the homosexual lifestyle insist on affirming themselves as a separate and special class of people practicing a lifestyle they seek to perpetuate, no, they aren’t.

Their status as practicing homosexuals deserves no respect at all.

In fact, as such they should be marginalized as much as possible within the law.

Better yet, they should be prosecuted under relevant law where it still exists and where it does not exist, new laws should be drafted and passed to keep such activity at the very least outside of the public arena.

The notion that everybody “deserves” to be respected no matter what lifestyle they choose to live is utterly absurd, especially if that chosen lifestyle has to do with the adamant proselytizing for, protection of and affirmation of gravely sinful and evil lifestyles such as homosexuality.

:nope: Even I can’t get on board with that…

 

[Joie_de_Vivre]

If people practicing the homosexual lifestyle insist on affirming themselves as a separate and special class of people practicing a lifestyle they seek to perpetuate, no, they aren’t.

Their status as practicing homosexuals deserves no respect at all.

In fact, as such they should be marginalized as much as possible within the law.

Better yet, they should be prosecuted under relevant law where it still exists and where it does not exist, new laws should be drafted and passed to keep such activity at the very least outside of the public arena.

The notion that everybody “deserves” to be respected no matter what lifestyle they choose to live is utterly absurd, especially if that chosen lifestyle has to do with the adamant proselytizing for, protection of and affirmation of gravely sinful and evil lifestyles such as homosexuality.

This in effect works against saving souls.

 

[Valdemar]

This in effect works against saving souls.

No, it does not.

All of this really highlights just how degraded is our sense of justice and even simple right and wrong.

I are not referring to those who are homosexual who like any sinner, myself as well are to be respected and more. I am referring to those who aggressively promote the lifestyle and endanger children and the unknowing.

Maybe none of you have encountered such people and maybe you have no kids to protect? How many really do these days, Catholic or not…

The militant homosexualists need to be driven out of the public discussion along with their ideals and goals. Those who say they must be “respected” for their position are simply caving in to the premise that all political and moral positions are morally equivalent. They are not.

By the way, I really do not expect many to agree with me, tho i am certain some do, some who might even be afraid to post agreement here for fear of moderator involvement or simple “social” awkwardness.

 

[shockerfan]

If people practicing the homosexual lifestyle insist on affirming themselves as a separate and special class of people practicing a lifestyle they seek to perpetuate, no, they aren’t.

Their status as practicing homosexuals deserves no respect at all.

In fact, as such they should be marginalized as much as possible within the law.

Better yet, they should be prosecuted under relevant law where it still exists and where it does not exist, new laws should be drafted and passed to keep such activity at the very least outside of the public arena.

The notion that everybody “deserves” to be respected no matter what lifestyle they choose to live is utterly absurd, especially if that chosen lifestyle has to do with the adamant proselytizing for, protection of and affirmation of gravely sinful and evil lifestyles such as homosexuality.

We as Catholics have a responsibility to preach the truth, but HOW we preach the truth is many times as important as WHAT we preach. St. Peter calls us to defend the truth, but do it with “gentleness and reverence”: “Always be ready to give an explanation to anyone who asks you for a reason for your hope, but do it with gentleness and reverence…” (I Peter 3:15-16)

 

[Valdemar]

We as Catholics have a responsibility to preach the truth, but HOW we preach the truth is many times as important as WHAT we preach. St. Peter calls us to defend the truth, but do it with “gentleness and reverence”: “Always be ready to give an explanation to anyone who asks you for a reason for your hope, but do it with gentleness and reverence…” (I Peter 3:15-16)

Have you ever read how “gentle” St Paul was on this topic?

Now, I ask you, when bestiality is praised as an expression of interspecies understanding, will you affirm the rights of such folks who promote that to present their message to your children in school?

Oh…

But, but…that will never happen!

And besides, that is “icky”.

Yeah, and homosexuality as a protected right would never happen and it was once considered “icky”, too.

Sorry, but you folks have fallen prey to the enemy’s strategy.

 

[Joie_de_Vivre]

No, it does not.

All of this really highlights just how degraded is our sense of justice and even simple right and wrong.

I are not referring to those who are homosexual who like any sinner, myself as well are to be respected and more. **I am referring to those who aggressively promote the lifestyle and endanger children and the unknowing.
**
Maybe none of you have encountered such people and maybe you have no kids to protect? How many really do these days, Catholic or not…

The militant homosexualists need to be driven out of the public discussion along with their ideals and goals. Those who say they must be “respected” for their position are simply caving in to the premise that all political and moral positions are morally equivalent. They are not.

By the way, I really do not expect many to agree with me, tho i am certain some do, some who might even be afraid to post agreement here for fear of moderator involvement or simple “social” awkwardness.

So you’re talking about almost none of them?

Have you ever read how “gentle” St Paul was on this topic?

Now, I ask you, when bestiality is praised as an expression of interspecies understanding, will you affirm the rights of such folks who promote that to present their message to your children in school?

Oh…

But, but…that will never happen!

And besides, that is “icky”.

Yeah, and homosexuality as a protected right would never happen and it was once considered “icky”, too.

Sorry, but you folks have fallen prey to the enemy’s strategy.

Same sex love minus sex used to be celebrated.

 

[Valdemar]

{1} So you’re talking about almost none of them?

{2} Same sex love minus sex used to be celebrated.

{1} The movement is strong and pervasive and needs to be resisted to the full extent of the law, tho of course because of weakness within our society at large and of course from cowardly people and those like some on this forum who have been deceived we see the laws changing.

The “gay lobby” is well represented in all the states and throughout the educational system. We have pressure from politicians and educators to just give up and accept their lifestyle as a simple “choice”. Some Christians have given up and thrown in the towel by granting them a “class status” as sort of a separate gender, as if there is such a thing. Cowardice and poor catechesis is easier to achieve than strength, moral courage and the willingness to be persecuted for telling the truth.

The homosexualists seek to destroy and to spread their devil’s evangel thru forcible adoption by schools to plant seeds of confusion among young and impressionable kids while some “Catholics” stand around and discuss how they might best roll out the red carpet for them since their “sin” {if it is even admitted as such} is soooo much more in need of understanding than most other sins are. The message is clouded by the defeat Catholic culture has experienced in so many areas of life in this country.

I am sick of those who drum out the mantra of “loving your brother” all the while caving in to the “love” they seek to foist on children. What about the love we are to have for our and others children? Well, you know, the few left who haven’t been contracepted into oblivion…

Such “love” is a lie.

{2} I am not clear on what you are trying to say here.

 

[Joie_de_Vivre]

{1} Actually I’m not sure what you are saying here. The movement is strong and pervasive and needs to be resisted to the full extent of the law, tho of course because of weakness within our society at large and of course from cowardly people and those like some on this forum who have been deceived we see the laws changing.

It isn’t as strong or pervasive as you think the reason Christians have been failing is incompetence.

The “gay lobby” is well represented in all the states and throughout the educational system. We have pressure from politicians and educators to just give up and accept their lifestyle as a simple “choice”. Some Christians have given up and thrown in the towel by granting them a “class status” as sort of a separate gender, as if there is such a thing. Cowardice and poor catechesis is easier to achieve than strength, moral courage and the willingness to be persecuted for telling the truth.

Christians need to show some basic competence or we’ll lose again and again.

The homosexualists seek to destroy and to spread their devil’s evangel thru forcible adoption by schools to plant seeds of confusion among young and impressionable kids while some “Catholics” stand around and discuss how they might best roll out the red carpet for them since their “sin” {if it is even admitted as such} is soooo much more in need of understanding than most other sins are. The message is clouded by the defeat Catholic culture has experienced in so many areas of life in this country.

You sound like either a fundamentalist or a parody of one.

I am sick of those who drum out the mantra of “loving your brother” all the while caving in to the “love” they seek to foist on children. What about the love we are to have for our and others children? Well, you know, the few left who haven’t been contracepted into oblivion…

Such “love” is a lie.

{2} I am not clear on what you are trying to say here.

You win more converts by love and living the faith than by throwing stones. When people have been taught that God despises them for existing telling them that God says they shouldn’t do something isn’t useful. Reciting Romans and Leviticus from memory wins no converts and merely serves to annoy people who have already heard it a thousand times.

Gay marriage isn’t going to destroy marriage because marriage has already been destroyed by heterosexuals who have made procreation optional and made them to be as long as the love lasts instead of until death. You can’t save marriage from gay people because there is nothing left to save. Fornication and divorce are far more dangerous than gay marriage as they have already destroyed marriage. Catholic respond much more harshly to gay people than fornicators despite gay sex and fornication both being intrinsically disordered according to the Church and both being sins against chastity.

1. Love between men used to be celebrated as did love between women, the only real difference is that there was no sex. Love of the friend used to be placed far above love of spouse, indeed for most of the history of Christianity people didn’t marry for love.

 

[WilT]

{1} The movement is strong and pervasive and needs to be resisted to the full extent of the law, tho of course because of weakness within our society at large and of course from cowardly people and those like some on this forum who have been deceived we see the laws changing.

The “gay lobby” is well represented in all the states and throughout the educational system. We have pressure from politicians and educators to just give up and accept their lifestyle as a simple “choice”. Some Christians have given up and thrown in the towel by granting them a “class status” as sort of a separate gender, as if there is such a thing. Cowardice and poor catechesis is easier to achieve than strength, moral courage and the willingness to be persecuted for telling the truth.

The homosexualists seek to destroy and to spread their devil’s evangel thru forcible adoption by schools to plant seeds of confusion among young and impressionable kids while some “Catholics” stand around and discuss how they might best roll out the red carpet for them since their “sin” {if it is even admitted as such} is soooo much more in need of understanding than most other sins are. The message is clouded by the defeat Catholic culture has experienced in so many areas of life in this country.

I am sick of those who drum out the mantra of “loving your brother” all the while caving in to the “love” they seek to foist on children. What about the love we are to have for our and others children? Well, you know, the few left who haven’t been contracepted into oblivion…

Such “love” is a lie.

{2} I am not clear on what you are trying to say here.

What you have said is the reality we live in now. We have become weak and spineless. Those who are strong in Faith and in life need to continue to Spiritual battle.

 

[Valdemar]

It isn’t as strong or pervasive as you think the reason Christians have been failing is incompetence.

You are wrong. I mean, granted, they have made every church a bath house yet, but if you see where the homosexual lobby has come from 40 years ago to today, you see they have gained significant ground, ground I agree has come about due to incompetence of those who have tried to win by feigning “respect” and/or by actually “respecting” deep perversion as you suggest here.

Christians need to show some basic competence or we’ll lose again and again.

I agree.

You sound like either a fundamentalist or a parody of one.

Actually, what I have suggested here in this thread was considered quite moderate merely a half century ago. Today you call it fundamentalism. I really do not care what you call it. right goes by a variety of names and sometimes insults as well.

You win more converts by love and living the faith than by throwing stones. When people have been taught that God despises them for existing telling them that God says they shouldn’t do something isn’t useful. Reciting Romans and Leviticus from memory wins no converts and merely serves to annoy people who have already heard it a thousand times.

**Your argument here is absurd. The truth is, a strong rejection of the perversions we discuss here worked for hundreds of years! And funny, “reciting” clear Scripture has won warned more people of their sin and won far more converts than the chaos and fawning you subscribe to. Only now with the advent of “respect” for deep perversion do we see the battle being lost because of folks like yourself who promote acceptance of evil as a response to it. Naturally, in the “spirit” of “winning converts”. Nonsense. winning a convert by accepting his sin and redefining it as mere suffering, or a “cross to bear” is a theological absurdity as well. Indeed, I suppose you agree with the laws that ban coaching, teaching or leading homosexuals directly away from homosexuality? Heavens, we wouldn’t want to break the law, I mean, Romans 13 says we should obey our magistrates. No, you know neither Scripture nor truth. **

Gay marriage isn’t going to destroy marriage because marriage has already been destroyed by heterosexuals who have made procreation optional and made them to be as long as the love lasts instead of until death. You can’t save marriage from gay people because there is nothing left to save. Fornication and divorce are far more dangerous than gay marriage as they have already destroyed marriage. Catholic respond much more harshly to gay people than fornicators despite gay sex and fornication both being intrinsically disordered according to the Church and both being sins against chastity.

Well this is true, of course. But you are diverging off topic. The topic here isn’t how bad heteros have made marriage. That is worthy of a separate thread where I can agree with you. As far as Catholics responding much less forcefully to fornication I cannot say in detail, but I would agree with you it should not be accepted. Indeed, we need to resist such efforts to dumb down public morality wherever we see it. Including among homosexualits activists who should be driven off the public stage and whose acts and practices should be exposed in detail. The lifestyle pormoted by homosexuals is horrifically unhealthy and even THEY admit it on site after pro-homosexual site anyone here can search.

1. Love between men used to be celebrated as did love between women, the only real difference is that there was no sex. Love of the friend used to be placed far above love of spouse, indeed for most of the history of Christianity people didn’t marry for love.

**Now you are speaking gibberish in what appears to be some strange but unsuccessful attempt to confuse the issue. What you say here has nothing to do with the issue at hand. I love my brothers, my father and my male friends. Everyone has people of the same sex they love. Your point is laughable. Of course they do. It has no more to do with the topic at hand than bringing up loving McDonalds Hamburgers, Marlboro cigarettes or a puppy. **

 

[Valdemar]

What you have said is the reality we live in now. We have become weak and spineless. Those who are strong in Faith and in life need to continue to Spiritual battle.

It really IS the reality in which we live. We OUGHT to live in daily shame of what our culture has become, and fight in every way to direct it back to Christ the giver of life.

Sometimes that means being softspoken and gentle. Sometimes it means fighting with every bone of our bodies.

 

[shockerfan]

Have you ever read how “gentle” St Paul was on this topic?

Now, I ask you, when bestiality is praised as an expression of interspecies understanding, will you affirm the rights of such folks who promote that to present their message to your children in school?

Oh…

But, but…that will never happen!

And besides, that is “icky”.

Yeah, and homosexuality as a protected right would never happen and it was once considered “icky”, too.

Sorry, but you folks have fallen prey to the enemy’s strategy.

So we should ignore St. Peter…pick and choose our verses?

I agree that we need to stand up to the “homosexualist” extremist agenda and present the truth. I disagree with using perjoratives like “homos”…I think it pushes people away from the truth.

If you disagree, then do this simple little test…take your post with the “homo” comment and show it to your priest for his feedback. I would hope you wouldn’t think he has fallen pray to the enemy’s strategy too.

 

[WilT]

Calling them ‘homos’ doesn’t solve or resolve anything. Name calling is not cool nor mature.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

Calling them ‘homos’ doesn’t solve or resolve anything. Name calling is not cool nor mature.

With the word “homos” I completely agree. It does not accomplish anything. There are some terms that depending on who you are talking to are actually preferred. Queer, Gay, Butch etc can be acceptable terms in some circles. I also tend to not have a problem if the description accurately describes the action or person. But “homos” does nothing but demean and divide.

As for Valdemar getting into it with Joie de Vivre, I would advise against it. This is probably joie’s single biggest issue on CAF. And not only is she well educated, she also is very passionate about it. I disagree wholeheartedly with her sometimes but honestly she is out of my league of debate. That does not make her position correct, because I rarely believe it is. But she is charitable, patient and rarely gets bothered. I would just let it go…

 

[Valdemar]

So we should ignore St. Peter…pick and choose our verses?

I agree that we need to stand up to the “homosexualist” extremist agenda and present the truth. I disagree with using perjoratives like “homos”…I think it pushes people away from the truth.

If you disagree, then do this simple little test…take your post with the “homo” comment and show it to your priest for his feedback. I would hope you wouldn’t think he has fallen pray to the enemy’s strategy too.

I don’t recall the post you are referring to.

Regardless, the desperate craving to “respect” those who class themselves as a Third Gender is horrific, destructive and utterly worthless as a means by which to win souls or save anyone.

Period.

We have had 50 years of your methodology and the result has been 100% failure. 100%.

Has someone somewhere at some time appreciated “your” method? Sure, tons of homosexualists who seek legitimacy.

And all the while at the the expense of institutionalizing and establishing “homosexuality” as a legitimate option for “choice”.

You seem delighted to claim a sliver of the ship while the rest of it went to the bottom.

Public discourse has been so anti-Scripturally pseudo-feminized you really don’t seem to get it. We must operate under the premise that all lifestyles are in some way equal before any discussion can take place. Rubbish. The world isn’t slipping into a soup of fog on this issue because “Catholics have been bullies” or aggressive. No, the chaos reigns because Catholics have bought into the notion that we must be “nice” about even such evil as this and thus no one knows where to get the truth in the Church anymore. Infighting reigns. Chaos reigns. Catholics as an institution are divided and appear no different in their message than many other secular and foggy organizations that don’t quite know how to deal with the aggressive onslaught in the Courts and elsewhere by rabid homosexualists. When we lose the clarity of the message, we LOSE the cause we have been charged to fulfill.

As for the term “homo” {which is a term I actually don’t use in discourse normally so I’m not sure why it popped up here} my Priest would probably shun it. I apologize for using it.

I think he prefers the Biblical term “Sodomite”.

Is that preferable to you?

Does it show oh so much more “respect”?

No, this topic is not pleasant, and we should stop pretending it is. The unrepentant who promote and live the lifestyle are going to burn in hell and they with your support of weakness and chaos will deceive and drag down many others.

 

[Joie_de_Vivre]

I don’t recall the post you are referring to.

Regardless, the desperate craving to “respect” those who class themselves as a Third Gender is horrific, destructive and utterly worthless as a means by which to win souls or save anyone.

Period.

I’ve seen very few people identify as a nonbinary gender and how are people who identify as nonbinary even relevant to this conversation.

We have had 50 years of your methodology and the result has been 100% failure. 100%.

Has someone somewhere at some time appreciated “your” method? Sure, tons of homosexualists who seek legitimacy.

No, we haven’t had 50 years pf their methodology, we’ve had 50 years of conservatives being incompetent about evangelization and only serving to repel people from the truth.

And all the while at the the expense of institutionalizing and establishing “homosexuality” as a legitimate option for “choice”.

What does that even mean?

You seem delighted to claim a sliver of the ship while the rest of it went to the bottom.

Public discourse has been so anti-Scripturally pseudo-feminized you really don’t seem to get it.

What does that even mean?

We must operate under the premise that all lifestyles are in some way equal before any discussion can take place. Rubbish. The world isn’t slipping into a soup of fog on this issue because “Catholics have been bullies” or aggressive. No, the chaos reigns because Catholics have bought into the notion that we must be “nice” about even such evil as this and thus no one knows where to get the truth in the Church anymore. Infighting reigns. Chaos reigns. Catholics as an institution are divided and appear no different in their message than many other secular and foggy organizations that don’t quite know how to deal with the aggressive onslaught in the Courts and elsewhere by rabid homosexualists. When we lose the clarity of the message, we LOSE the cause we have been charged to fulfill.

Both approaches are problematic and doomed to failure.

As for the term “homo” {which is a term I actually don’t use in discourse normally so I’m not sure why it popped up here} my Priest would probably shun it. I apologize for using it.

I think he prefers the Biblical term “Sodomite”.

Is that preferable to you?

Does it show oh so much more “respect”?

No, this topic is not pleasant, and we should stop pretending it is. The unrepentant who promote and live the lifestyle are going to burn in hell and they with your support of weakness and chaos will deceive and drag down many others.

Do you call heterosexuals who engage in sodomy sodomites? If not you are only calling a small minority of sodomites sodomites.

Why don’t I ever see people talk that way about fornication and divorce given both are far greater threats to marriage and society? Because it is far easier to rant about the mote in another groups eye than take out the beam out of your own eye.

 

[J_Peterson]

I think he prefers the Biblical term “Sodomite”.

Is that preferable to you?

Does it show oh so much more “respect”?

The term Sodomite refering to homosexuals is not Biblical. In the Bible Sodomite meant someone who was from the city of Sodom. There is no Biblical term for what we call homosexuality.