A
Anna_Scott
Guest
His posts had the same effect on me.
I wish he would have engaged more in a charitable discussion and responded to direct questions. Sadly, Tunesmith seems to have fled the thread.
Anna
- Status
I wish he would have engaged more in a charitable discussion and responded to direct questions. Sadly, Tunesmith seems to have fled the thread.
Anna
B
BA11
Guest
I believe anyone who professes Jesus as Lord and places their trust in him for their salvation can be saved, regardless of what they call themselves. The key is placing your trust in the biblical Jesus, the one who was fully man and fully God, the one who died for your sins and is the ONLY path to salvation.
There will be a lot of catholics, protestants and orthodox christians in heaven and many who called themselves such that will not be. All it takes is the simple, humble, repentant faith seen so many times in the new testement, but it must be genuine.
There will be a lot of catholics, protestants and orthodox christians in heaven and many who called themselves such that will not be. All it takes is the simple, humble, repentant faith seen so many times in the new testement, but it must be genuine.
K
KathleenGee
Guest
The Catholic and Orthodox Churches are very strict regarding who can participate fully at Mass and receive the sacraments.
To receive the Eucharist without faith is a sacrilege.
You must be properly formed and admitted through an ecclesiastic, most commonly the pastor.
Baptism incorporates us into Christ’s Mystical Body in union with the Holy Spirit. I can experience the same Lord and presence of the Holy Spirit in Protestant fellowship, and can come to the same understanding and practice of various interpretations of Sacred Scripture, I can pray the Our Father with Protestants.
But our apostolic authority, the papacy, liturgy and sacraments bring us into a more profound and expansive reality of Church that includes the carnate…a social institution with defined boundaries.
To receive the Eucharist without faith is a sacrilege.
You must be properly formed and admitted through an ecclesiastic, most commonly the pastor.
Baptism incorporates us into Christ’s Mystical Body in union with the Holy Spirit. I can experience the same Lord and presence of the Holy Spirit in Protestant fellowship, and can come to the same understanding and practice of various interpretations of Sacred Scripture, I can pray the Our Father with Protestants.
But our apostolic authority, the papacy, liturgy and sacraments bring us into a more profound and expansive reality of Church that includes the carnate…a social institution with defined boundaries.
S
SteveVH
Guest
Agreed.
I think it is more than political division. It is also a matter of doctrinal division, first and formeost. The difference between Catholic and Eastern Orthodox is primarily political, with a few minor exceptions in doctrine. With the the remainder of the non-Catholic Christian faiths, however, doctrine plays a major part to varying degrees, from Anglican and Lutheran to the Westboro Baptists on the other end of the spectrum.
I
Indifferently
Guest
Do you consider the Westboro Baptists to be Christians?
Doctrine does play a part, yes, of course, but that is also political. And the Eastern Orthodox and Roman Catholics do have major differences in doctrine which cannot be easily dismissed.
A
aidanbradypop
Guest
Westboro Baptist are Christians. Really extreme, but Christian nonetheless.
S
SteveVH
Guest
Anymore, it seems anyone who chooses to call themselves a Christian is a Christian regardless of their beliefs. I won’t be the judge except to say that their fruit is poison. But then I could say that about other communitites who claim the title “Christian” as well.
I am dismissing nothing, but when we speak in relative terms the EO are much closer in doctrine to the Catholic Church than any other “Christian” community.
K
KathleenGee
Guest
Hasn’t it been said that anyone who says he loves God but hates his neighbor is a liar???
F
frankbeenaround
Guest
Hi, Anna. My feeling is that “the Body of Christ” has more than one meaning – the Church, yes, and also the Eucharist, but in a way, too, the Word at the opening of John’s Gospel: "All things were made through Him.
Anyone have thoughts on this?
~ Frank
K
KathleenGee
Guest
When a person is licitly baptized into Christ, one receives the gift to come into the Living Word of God.
The Living Word of God is complete when one then receives the Eucharist, The Word Made Flesh.
Catholics encounter the Word of God as Logos…and the Living Word of God, Sacred Scripture is in essence, Jesus Christ.
The Catholic understanding of Sacred Scripture is in context of the entire Word of God, and not approaching it in fragmented pieces. All of Sacred Scripture is pointing to and summed up in Jesus Christ, through Whom the universe was made.
Subsequently, every phrase of Scripture is necessary, not extra or frivolous, but connects to all of it. That is quite a bit of information. But we see it rather as also salvation history of God’s people. We look at Scripture in context of God coming to a gathering of people. There were ancient interpretations of Sacred Scripture, and here on CAF and in Sacred Scripture there are academic discussions and education for people to study them, so as to better understand Scripture itself in the right form.
We follow the interpretation of Sacred Scripture in the Septuagint tradition…the same as the original apostles that anticipated the saving, redeeming Messiah. The Mizorant tradition is that held by those Jews who did not recognize Christ in the same way but does have excellent passages that can be shared with us. There is the LLX interpretation…and it is better explained here on another thread from the past two months.
Martin Luther wanted to get back to the Jewish text because he did not believe the Church anymore was faithful to Christ, but then, it brought him into the interpretation that did not anticipate the coming Messiah we recognize.
So we must trust the original movements of the Church – Sacred Tradition – begun by the Apostles. It is the Church that interprets Sacred Scripture and we need both Scripture and Tradition – how faith was put into practice in its primordial beginnings – and St. Jerome, in spite of some of his own protests in regards to what interpretations, etc., followed the Holy Spirit with books already in use by 100 AD.
When we follow Sacred Scripture with the intent of the Holy Spirit and Apostles, it truly leads us to communion with God and fellow believer.
People also don’t realize that the Catholic Church also allows for Biblical Studies. They are not considered ‘orthodox’, in the traditional interpretation, but allow people to interpret privately Scripture…feminists, religious orders such as Carmelites and Franciscans, and there are others, which are given the freedom to do so, but always to maintain communion with everyone.
The Living Word of God is complete when one then receives the Eucharist, The Word Made Flesh.
Catholics encounter the Word of God as Logos…and the Living Word of God, Sacred Scripture is in essence, Jesus Christ.
The Catholic understanding of Sacred Scripture is in context of the entire Word of God, and not approaching it in fragmented pieces. All of Sacred Scripture is pointing to and summed up in Jesus Christ, through Whom the universe was made.
Subsequently, every phrase of Scripture is necessary, not extra or frivolous, but connects to all of it. That is quite a bit of information. But we see it rather as also salvation history of God’s people. We look at Scripture in context of God coming to a gathering of people. There were ancient interpretations of Sacred Scripture, and here on CAF and in Sacred Scripture there are academic discussions and education for people to study them, so as to better understand Scripture itself in the right form.
We follow the interpretation of Sacred Scripture in the Septuagint tradition…the same as the original apostles that anticipated the saving, redeeming Messiah. The Mizorant tradition is that held by those Jews who did not recognize Christ in the same way but does have excellent passages that can be shared with us. There is the LLX interpretation…and it is better explained here on another thread from the past two months.
Martin Luther wanted to get back to the Jewish text because he did not believe the Church anymore was faithful to Christ, but then, it brought him into the interpretation that did not anticipate the coming Messiah we recognize.
So we must trust the original movements of the Church – Sacred Tradition – begun by the Apostles. It is the Church that interprets Sacred Scripture and we need both Scripture and Tradition – how faith was put into practice in its primordial beginnings – and St. Jerome, in spite of some of his own protests in regards to what interpretations, etc., followed the Holy Spirit with books already in use by 100 AD.
When we follow Sacred Scripture with the intent of the Holy Spirit and Apostles, it truly leads us to communion with God and fellow believer.
People also don’t realize that the Catholic Church also allows for Biblical Studies. They are not considered ‘orthodox’, in the traditional interpretation, but allow people to interpret privately Scripture…feminists, religious orders such as Carmelites and Franciscans, and there are others, which are given the freedom to do so, but always to maintain communion with everyone.
T
Tomster
Guest
Well, the Mystical Body of Christ is one, living reality, born of the Redemption wrought for us by the Incarnate Word. It is that Society formed of Christ and the Church, of which one is the Head, the other, the body; One the bridegroom, the other the bride. (St. Augustine, “De Unitate Ecclesiae”).
In the writings of St. Paul the doctrine of the Mystical Body of Christ holds a most high place. One may say that everrything in St. Paul radiates from it. 1 Corinthians is a good place to start.
K
KathleenGee
Guest
Yes, Christ bringing us into the Mystical Place…where we are now in New Life and no longer bound by linear time, but now living in eternal time with God.
But for me, the Mystical place keeps opening up its veil and draws me to continue my walk…saying this from attending wonderful Protestant Bible ecumenical studies…to the Eucharist for nourishment.
The effect of the Eucharist is that it takes away all need from the world to Christ, and the immediate response is to go out in haste to serve Him in our neighbor.
I was attending a Protestant led bible study using one of Rick Warren’s books. I found it complete…except at worship. I sat between two Catholics. I think the leadership was Nazarene. Anyway, they brought their English dictionaries and would openly reflect on different meaning of words from their Webster.
But we Catholics seemed to grasp the intent immediately and would sit with them, more observing their pondering and searching, and it made me want to get up and get going to serve the Lord, and I was also aware of the actual living presence of Christ in the two Catholics next to me, unaware of the living Christ present in each of them from the Eucharist.
I experience the Holy Spirit at work in good Protestants, and always recognize the same joy and fulfillment in knowing Christ as I do in devout Catholics.
It is just that there is something more…the Heavenly Banquet here on earth…here to nurture us. I also recall being depressed from working overseas and coming back home to this cultural adjustment, home no longer feeling like home. I would go up to Holy Communion, and then realize after reception that the depression would be gone.
But for me, the Mystical place keeps opening up its veil and draws me to continue my walk…saying this from attending wonderful Protestant Bible ecumenical studies…to the Eucharist for nourishment.
The effect of the Eucharist is that it takes away all need from the world to Christ, and the immediate response is to go out in haste to serve Him in our neighbor.
I was attending a Protestant led bible study using one of Rick Warren’s books. I found it complete…except at worship. I sat between two Catholics. I think the leadership was Nazarene. Anyway, they brought their English dictionaries and would openly reflect on different meaning of words from their Webster.
But we Catholics seemed to grasp the intent immediately and would sit with them, more observing their pondering and searching, and it made me want to get up and get going to serve the Lord, and I was also aware of the actual living presence of Christ in the two Catholics next to me, unaware of the living Christ present in each of them from the Eucharist.
I experience the Holy Spirit at work in good Protestants, and always recognize the same joy and fulfillment in knowing Christ as I do in devout Catholics.
It is just that there is something more…the Heavenly Banquet here on earth…here to nurture us. I also recall being depressed from working overseas and coming back home to this cultural adjustment, home no longer feeling like home. I would go up to Holy Communion, and then realize after reception that the depression would be gone.
A
Anna_Scott
Guest
Wonderful posts everyone. It seems that the discussion is reaching a deeper level and I am blessed by it.
Kathleen, You make me forget about disagreements and debating the issues. I love the beautiful way you express your faith. I am blessed by your words and am softened to open my heart to the Holy Spirit.
Peace and blessings from a longtime friend,
Anna
Kathleen, You make me forget about disagreements and debating the issues. I love the beautiful way you express your faith. I am blessed by your words and am softened to open my heart to the Holy Spirit.
Peace and blessings from a longtime friend,
Anna
A
aidanbradypop
Guest
A
Anna_Scott
Guest
Pop (I keep typing Pope instead of Pop. and have to correct it,)
How dare you post a picture of me! I’m “invisible” Sue. Remember?
Though I do look really good for 58. So, guess the photo isn’t all bad. LOL.
A
aidanbradypop
Guest
You do not want me as a Pope. lolPop (I keep typing Pope instead of Pop. and have to correct it,)
How dare you post a picture of me! I’m “invisible” Sue. Remember?
Those glasses make ya look younger
Back to topic. Here is something for ya
*For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ. For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. For the body is not one member, but many. — 1 Corinthians 12:12-14 *
The first meaning that Catholics attach to the expression “Body of Christ” is the Catholic Church. The Catechism of the Catholic Church quotes with approval, as “summing up the faith of the holy doctors and the good sense of the believer”, the reply of Saint Joan of Arc to her judges: “About Jesus Christ and the Church, I simply know they’re just one thing, and we shouldn’t complicate the matter.” In the same passage, it also quotes Saint Augustine: “Let us rejoice then and give thanks that we have become not only Christians, but Christ himself. Do you understand and grasp, brethren, God’s grace toward us? Marvel and rejoice: we have become Christ. For if he is the head, we are the members; he and we together are the whole man… the fullness of Christ then is the head and the members. But what does ‘head and members’ mean? Christ and the Church.” In light of all this, the Catholic Church is the “universal sacrament of salvation” for the whole world, as it dispenses the sacraments, which give the grace of Christ himself to the recipient.
Saint Paul the Apostle spoke of this unity of Christians with Christ, referred to in the New Testament also in images such as that of the vine and the branches, in terms of a single body that has Christ as its head in Romans 12:5,1 Corinthians 12:12-27, Ephesians 3:6 and 5:23, Colossians 1:18 and 1:24.
The Catechism of the Catholic Church states, “the comparison of the Church with the body casts light on the intimate bond between Christ and his Church. Not only is she gathered around him; she is united in him, in his body. Three aspects of the Church as the Body of Christ are to be more specifically noted: the unity of all her members with each other as a result of their union with Christ; Christ as head of the Body; and the Church as bride of Christ.” The Catechism spells out the significance of each of these three aspects.
To distinguish the Body of Christ in this sense from his physical body, the term “Mystical Body of Christ” is often used. This term was used as the first words, and so as the title, of the encyclical Mystici Corporis Christi of Pope Pius XII. In that document, Pope Pius XII clearly states, “the mystical Body of Christ… is the Catholic Church.”
T
Tomster
Guest
So simple and yet so sublime.You do not want me as a Pope. lol
Those glasses make ya look younger
Back to topic. Here is something for ya
*For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ. For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. For the body is not one member, but many. — 1 Corinthians 12:12-14 *
The first meaning that Catholics attach to the expression “Body of Christ” is the Catholic Church. The Catechism of the Catholic Church quotes with approval, as “summing up the faith of the holy doctors and the good sense of the believer”, the reply of Saint Joan of Arc to her judges: “About Jesus Christ and the Church, I simply know they’re just one thing, and we shouldn’t complicate the matter.” In the same passage, it also quotes Saint Augustine: “Let us rejoice then and give thanks that we have become not only Christians, but Christ himself. Do you understand and grasp, brethren, God’s grace toward us? Marvel and rejoice: we have become Christ. For if he is the head, we are the members; he and we together are the whole man… the fullness of Christ then is the head and the members. But what does ‘head and members’ mean? Christ and the Church.” In light of all this, the Catholic Church is the “universal sacrament of salvation” for the whole world, as it dispenses the sacraments, which give the grace of Christ himself to the recipient.
Saint Paul the Apostle spoke of this unity of Christians with Christ, referred to in the New Testament also in images such as that of the vine and the branches, in terms of a single body that has Christ as its head in Romans 12:5,1 Corinthians 12:12-27, Ephesians 3:6 and 5:23, Colossians 1:18 and 1:24.
The Catechism of the Catholic Church states, “the comparison of the Church with the body casts light on the intimate bond between Christ and his Church. Not only is she gathered around him; she is united in him, in his body. Three aspects of the Church as the Body of Christ are to be more specifically noted: the unity of all her members with each other as a result of their union with Christ; Christ as head of the Body; and the Church as bride of Christ.” The Catechism spells out the significance of each of these three aspects.
To distinguish the Body of Christ in this sense from his physical body, the term “Mystical Body of Christ” is often used. This term was used as the first words, and so as the title, of the encyclical Mystici Corporis Christi of Pope Pius XII. In that document, Pope Pius XII clearly states, “the mystical Body of Christ… is the Catholic Church.”
I have been reading that encyclical off and on for the past fifty years of my life and I never tire in doing so.
A
aidanbradypop
Guest
I am a Southern Fried Catholic so I always enjoy a good read. Ecclesia de Eucharistia is on of the best!So simple and yet so sublime.
I have been reading that encyclical off and on for the past fifty years of my life and I never tire in doing so.
T
Tomster
Guest
Top notch!I am a Southern Fried Catholic so I always enjoy a good read. Ecclesia de Eucharistia is on of the best!
K
KathleenGee
Guest
Southern Fried is so good…
- Status