The Book of Mormon

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TexanKnight said:
sigh…again as to Deseret…it is a LDS Newspaper trying to get members to forget about the importance of location because they don’t have any! If they did…they would claim it is terribly important. Why can;t you see that?
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I can see that, and I think Mormons see it too, but I think each of us is reading something different into that lack of information. You seem to see it as evidence of fraud while I’m happy to accept the explanation given by the article, “Why not leave hidden the things that the Lord has hidden? If He wants the geography of the Book of Mormon revealed, He will do so through His prophet . . .”
TexanKnight said:
Are you saying you are judge now of what is charitable?
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No, I was just offering an opinion. The only judge for that here would be the moderator, and if he has no problem with such posts, I need to learn to live with it, use the ignore function, or find a different site to visit.
TexanKnight said:
I am amzed that you go to LDS websites for your information. Either you have not learned that there is constant backtracking and whitewashing or you choose to ignore it. I would be curious to know which
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No, I haven’t learned that there is constant backtracking and whitewashing on the LDS website. Maybe that will become clear with further investigation, but I’m not aware of such things now.

When I want to learn about any person’s faith, I try to visit that religion’s own information sites. These are not my only sources of information, but who would know better than the Mormons what they teach and practice? For the same reason, I visit the sites of Catholics, Orthodox, Lutherans, Baptists, and so on when wanting information about them, plus buying their books; for example, when wanting to know more about Catholics, I ended up with a Haydock Bible, a Missal, the CCC, and several books by Ronald Knox and Cardinal Newman. I don’t yet have much original material by Mormons, but then, I had rather lost interest in them a couple decades ago.
 
jrtrent said:
Interesting site and information. There is a rebuttal to Dr. Lund’s travel promotions in an article here:

firmlds.org/feature.php?id=21

However, both sites seem to suggest that there may have been more certainty concerning the geography of Book of Mormon events and places on the part of LDS leaders in days gone by than is shown even by that 1978 article I referenced previously.
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Interesting…the plot thickens!

So the church is claiming that the statement from Joseph Smith was never proven to be attributed to him, however it was printed in an LDS church publication? And Joseph Smith was reportedly editor at the time?

I think this is interesting info regarding the Times and Seasons publication:

TIMES AND SEASONS EDITORIALS, 1842
The Church in Nauvoo began publishing the Times and Seasons periodical in 1839, the same year that Stevens began his explorations. Its motto, “Truth will prevail,” expressed a goal to promote truth and correct falsehoods, and was the main organ for publishing truths pertaining to the restored gospel to the Church members and the world. Many revelations to the Prophet, and his Book of Abraham translation, for instance, appeared in print for the first time in the Times and Seasons. In the spring of 1842, in consequence of too many errors appearing in print, the Prophet Joseph Smith took over the editorship and announced his personal responsibility for the contents of the paper (No. 9 of Vol. III, p. 710).

During the next six months he endeavored to raise the paper’s standard of excellence before turning over the editorship to John Taylor, which he announced in the November 15, 1842 edition, and expressed confidence that Elder Taylor would maintain the high quality of excellence that had developed (History of the Church 5: 193). The Prophet required that any errors of information published be corrected, in keeping with the paper’s motto. It should be evident that no significant misinformation circulated during the Prophet’s editorship without correction, and that the editorials in particular were intended for general interest and instruction of the Church members.

ancientamerica.org/library/media/HTML/8z0ylkqc/JOSEPH%20SMITH%20AND%20THE%20BEGINNING%20OF%20B%20OF%20M%20ARCHAEOLOGY.htm
Joining as a teenager, I was a member of the church for 14 years, but I don’t recall being taught or having much interest in trying to specify exactly where different Mormon events took place. Could be an interesting study to look up church teaching on the subject, and when and how such teaching may have changed over the years.
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When I was a teenager I sure didn’t have much interest in geography and history! 😛
I do now!
Yes, it would be an interesting study, especially since you were LDS for 14 years. Just remember to share your findings with the missionaries!
 
andrewstx said:
It seems from my memory of Mormon Mythology that Eden is in the area of Independence or Kansas City Mo.
.
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Which as at least one wag as speculated, means Adam drove an El Camino and Eve wore a tube-top and cut-off shorts
 
jrtrent said:
I can see that, and I think Mormons see it too, but I think each of us is reading something different into that lack of information. You seem to see it as evidence of fraud while I’m happy to accept the explanation given by the article, “Why not leave hidden the things that the Lord has hidden? If He wants the geography of the Book of Mormon revealed, He will do so through His prophet . . .”

I see that as a cop out. Back when the Book of Mormon first came out, they were sure they knew where everything was. Joseph and others made declarations as to it. As they realized they could find nothing, they come up with the excuse you just gave. Finding it is only important if you can find it. That may fool you, it doesn’t me

No, I was just offering an opinion. The only judge for that here would be the moderator, and if he has no problem with such posts, I need to learn to live with it, use the ignore function, or find a different site to visit.

there ya go, then. But if that is truly the case, why even offer an opinion? That seems to go against the charity you sometimes preach

No, I haven’t learned that there is constant backtracking and whitewashing on the LDS website. Maybe that will become clear with further investigation, but I’m not aware of such things now.

It is very plentiful. We have whole whole threads on that topic. Or we can discuss by email if you would prefer.

When I want to learn about any person’s faith, I try to visit that religion’s own information sites. These are not my only sources of information, but who would know better than the Mormons what they teach and practice?

That is only good IF you look for countering opinions. When I want to buy a Ford, I do not rely on Ford’s website. I am only going to get the good.
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DaddyGirl said:
Or…he might say–as many do about their own religions when specific questions cannot be answered to others’ satisfaction: Ya gotta have FAITH.

.
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perhaps. But if a book CLAIMS to be historical, then it should be able to be proven.
 
If the mormons where to find out that none of what the b.o.m says is true, thats a billion dollars lost or more a year. Its all about money and who will pay the most to get to the highest level of heaven. God or mammon, you cant chose both 😦
 
lax16 said:
continued:

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints
Office of the First Presidency
Salt Lake City, Utah 84150

October 16, 1990

Bishop Darrel L. Brooks
Moore Ward
Oklahoma City Oklahoma South Stake
1000 Windemere
Moore, OK 73160

Dear Bishop Brooks:
Code: 
I have been asked to forward to you for acknowledgment and handling the enclosed copy of a letter to President Gordon B. Hinckley from Ronnie Sparks of your ward.  Brother Sparks inquired about the location of the Hill Cumorah mentioned in the Book of Mormon, where the last battle between the Nephites and Lamanites took place.

The Church has long maintained, as attested to by references in the writings of General Authorities, that the Hill Cumorah in western New York state is the same as referenced in the Book of Mormon.

The Brethren appreciate your assistance in responding to this inquiry, and asked that you convey to Brother Sparks their commendation for his gospel study.
Sincerely yours,
(signed)
F. Michael Watson
Secretary to the First Presidency
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I would like to address this just a little bit further.

The above letter by Mr. Watson was signed, and, on official church letterhead.

We then have what is often referred to as the Ogden Fax, coming supposedly from the first presidency that is in complete opposition to the signed letter.

Here are images of each.

http://exposingmormonism.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/Watson_1st_Cumorah_Letter.jpg

and

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

Notice there is no signature on the fax.

Then you have them back peddling on the issue here

The internet is making it much harder for the powers to be to keep the status quo
 
To be a Mormon, and say the Book of Mormon Hill Cumorah is not the same Hill Cumorah in NY state? I don’t know why you would be a Mormon if you don’t believe what its founder, Joseph Smith, claimed.
 
twopekinguys said:
I would like to address this just a little bit further.

The above letter by Mr. Watson was signed, and, on official church letterhead.

We then have what is often referred to as the Ogden Fax, coming supposedly from the first presidency that is in complete opposition to the signed letter.

Here are images of each.

http://exposingmormonism.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/Watson_1st_Cumorah_Letter.jpg

and

http://i670.photobucket.com/albums/vv66/awcook/Carla_Ogden.jpg

Notice there is no signature on the fax.

Then you have them back peddling on the issue here

The internet is making it much harder for the powers to be to keep the status quo
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And it is written to FARMS.

Wow - what a turn-around in only 3 years!

The content of the fax very closely mirrors what they are teaching about the Book of Mormon at the LDS Institute.
 
Notice the difference in the letterhead.

The original letter shows the name of the church as well as office of the first presidency.

The fax only shows office of the first presidency.

Every corporation I have worked for in the past had standardized letterhead on everything, from notepads to standard letterhead, business cards, and fax headers.

Interesting huh… 😃
 
andrewstx said:
It seems from my memory of Mormon Mythology that Eden is in the area of Independence or Kansas City Mo.

Not that I accept Mormon Myths.
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Yeah, in fact I think one of the larger splinter mormon groups has its headquarters there for that reason (if not so, someone please correct me :))
 
I hear it on good authority that The Book Of Mormon is hilarious - my cousins husband is in the cast on Broadway in New York. I can’t wait to see it.

If you mean the actual book - I couldn’t believe anybody could believe Jackson County, Missouri was the original Eden. The humidity here in the summer alone is enough to refute that.

Cheers from KC
 
Offdoodykcrn said:
If you mean the actual book - I couldn’t believe anybody could believe Jackson County, Missouri was the original Eden. The humidity here in the summer alone is enough to refute that.

Cheers from KC
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Well, that explains why Adam and Eve wore fig leaves! 😛
 
WildCatholic said:
Yeah, in fact I think one of the larger splinter mormon groups has its headquarters there for that reason (if not so, someone please correct me :))
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There is quite a few more mormon splinter group are headquartered in Independence
 
Vs…ours…frescos, catacombs, documents in letter, heads, bishops…as the New Testament declared, “Write it down!”

There is the sarcohagus under the altar of St. Paul’s Church in Rome that is being investigated, as well as the bones under the altar of St. Peter’s being investigated…just believed through ‘faith’. The bones under the altar, I was told in our sharing after homily that their state is faithful to the testimony of St. Peter’s martyrdom.

We just don’t believe through faith, but through the witnesses of the Apostles who were chosen and taught by Jesus and accompanied him throughout His earthly mission.\

It is all about witness – and documentation…and the*** continuity of one faith, one baptism, one God.***
 
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