The Book of Mormon

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TexanKnight

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McMullen stated on another thread that the main reason…where he “draws the line” at not being Catholic is the Book of Mormon. That has me puzzled. So, I want to ask him some questions. I doubt he will respond, but I hope he does.
  1. Where, specifically, did the Book of Mormon take place?
  2. Where, specifically, is Zerehemla?
  3. Where, specifically, is Bountiful?
  4. Does it bother you that the Book of Mormon was changed to reflect the knowledge that blacks were not becoming white?
  5. How do you explain a young man in 1830s America translating plates in Reformed Egyptian and his translations are almost word for word the same as English Scholars in the 1600s translating the Bible from Greek and Hebrew?
  6. How do you explain the several similarities between the Book of Mormon and A View of the Hebrews…a book written by man who was a preacher at Cowdery’s Church and a book that Joseph read?
We can start with these questions. If the Book of Mormon is THE SOLID THING that keeps you LDS, then I am certain you have answers to these questions.

I appreciate your time.
 
Cue gazellam posting FAIR links.

Leave Jesus in the Eucharist for a 19th century novelty. I’ll never comprehend that one.
 
TexanKnight said:
McMullen stated on another thread that the main reason…where he “draws the line” at not being Catholic is the Book of Mormon. That has me puzzled. So, I want to ask him some questions. I doubt he will respond, but I hope he does.
  1. Where, specifically, did the Book of Mormon take place?
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North America
  1. Where, specifically, is Zerehemla?
  2. Where, specifically, is Bountiful?
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Can say for sure myself, but the exact location of other places such as Eden are not known either. I do know that one of the major battles took place near a hill in New York State.
  1. Does it bother you that the Book of Mormon was changed to reflect the knowledge that blacks were not becoming white?
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The Mormon priesthood receives constant revelations from God. God offered the revision because man did not properly understand the original version.
  1. How do you explain a young man in 1830s America translating plates in Reformed Egyptian and his translations are almost word for word the same as English Scholars in the 1600s translating the Bible from Greek and Hebrew?
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Joseph Smith used similar primary sources to read and interpret the gold plates. As it is, all our knowledge of Ancient Egyptian comes from a Greek translation of the text on the Rosetta Stone. He likely first translated from Egyptian to Greek, and then used existing translations from Greek.
  1. How do you explain the several similarities between the Book of Mormon and A View of the Hebrews…a book written by man who was a preacher at Cowdery’s Church and a book that Joseph read?
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God must have called both to the priesthood, but only Mr. Smith accepted.
We can start with these questions. If the Book of Mormon is THE SOLID THING that keeps you LDS, then I am certain you have answers to these questions.
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I don’t think you will find that a series of stump questions will have the effect you desire, undermining people’s faith in the Church of Jesus Christ (of LDS).

I’d recommend prayer for their conversion before the blessed sacrament. 😉
I appreciate your time.
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Peace :cool:
 
🍿
TexanKnight said:
McMullen stated on another thread that the main reason…where he “draws the line” at not being Catholic is the Book of Mormon. That has me puzzled. So, I want to ask him some questions. I doubt he will respond, but I hope he does.
  1. Where, specifically, did the Book of Mormon take place?
  2. Where, specifically, is Zerehemla?
  3. Where, specifically, is Bountiful?
  4. Does it bother you that the Book of Mormon was changed to reflect the knowledge that blacks were not becoming white?
  5. How do you explain a young man in 1830s America translating plates in Reformed Egyptian and his translations are almost word for word the same as English Scholars in the 1600s translating the Bible from Greek and Hebrew?
  6. How do you explain the several similarities between the Book of Mormon and A View of the Hebrews…a book written by man who was a preacher at Cowdery’s Church and a book that Joseph read?
We can start with these questions. If the Book of Mormon is THE SOLID THING that keeps you LDS, then I am certain you have answers to these questions.

I appreciate your time.
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runningdude said:
North America
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Nah, depending on the Mormon you ask, it could be:
  1. All of the Americas, north and south.
  2. An area limited to Mesoamerican region of southern Mexico and northern Central America.
  3. The northeast area of the US. from the Great Lakes east.
All of my Mormon classes/teachers taught the first idea. The 2nd and 3rd idea are new ideas, coming out of the last 25 years or so as so-called “Mormon scholars” try to explain away the gotchas of the Book of Mormon, and beliefs surrounding it.

DNA ancestry alone, of indigenous Americans (north and south) makes idea #1 impossible, as it goes along with Smith’s claim that the Book of Mormon is a history of the origins of all American Natives. Science refutes this claim, entirely.

Idea #2 ditches Smith’s (and other early Mormon “prophets”) teachings, claiming the Book of Mormon is a history of a small group of people who were assimilated into existing populations.

Idea #3 comes mainly from critics of the Book of Mormon, which places Joseph’s tale in the context of the region in which he lived, and using local names for places and characters in the Book of Mormon.

As for Hill Cumorah, please, when the LDS Church puts some of their fortune into an archaeological excavation of the area, I’ll take an interest. It is telling that they don’t, but support the same in Mesoamerica, through BYU.
 
gazelam said:
… and lax16 responding with his usual style. (BTW, it’s “gazelam”.)
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What’s a gazelam? I had to google that one.

I’m not into J Smith’s mumbo jumbo occult practices. I’ll just call you g.
 
runningdude said:
North America

Or South, or Central…

Can say for sure myself, but the exact location of other places such as Eden are not known either.

So? God blocked it from our view…

I do know that one of the major battles took place near a hill in New York State.

and how do you “know” that? I have been to Hill Cumorah at least three times. No evidence of a battle fought there. LDS Church knows it is false.

The Mormon priesthood receives constant revelations from God. God offered the revision because man did not properly understand the original version.

lol…u huh. It was “true” until blacks did not turn white.

Joseph Smith used similar primary sources to read and interpret the gold plates. As it is, all our knowledge of Ancient Egyptian comes from a Greek translation of the text on the Rosetta Stone. He likely first translated from Egyptian to Greek, and then used existing translations from Greek.

That makes no sense.

God must have called both to the priesthood, but only Mr. Smith accepted.

That, too, makes no sense.

I don’t think you will find that a series of stump questions will have the effect you desire, undermining people’s faith in the Church of Jesus Christ (of LDS).

These are not stump questions. If someone believes that strongly in the Book of Mormon, these should be easily answered. And, I am not undermining anything. I am a Catholic posting on a Catholic site.

I’d recommend prayer for their conversion before the blessed sacrament. 😉

I have been doing that a long time.

Peace :cool:
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It seems from my memory of Mormon Mythology that Eden is in the area of Independence or Kansas City Mo.

Not that I accept Mormon Myths.
 
Adam-ondi-Ahman is the subject of a revelation recorded in the LDS Church edition of the Doctrine and Covenants, a book of scripture within the Latter Day Saint movement: “Spring Hill is named by the Lord Adam-ondi-Ahman, because, said he, it is the place where Adam shall come to visit his people, or the Ancient of Days shall sit, as spoken of by Daniel the prophet.”

Contemporaries of Joseph Smith, Jr. claimed that he taught that the Garden of Eden was located in the vicinity of Independence, Missouri,and that after Adam and Eve were banished from the garden, they went to Adam-ondi-Ahman.(About 87 miles away)

According to a revelation declared by Smith, Adam met his children at the site three years before his death to bestow his blessing. LDS Church leader Joseph Fielding Smith, Jr. has stated that before the Second Coming, Adam will convene another meeting there to turn the government of the human family officially to Jesus Christ.

Zarahemla (now Blanchardville) is in Wisconson, Bountiful is in Utah.
 
TexanKnight said:
These are not stump questions. If someone believes that strongly in the Book of Mormon, these should be easily answered. And, I am not undermining anything. I am a Catholic posting on a Catholic site.
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The issue is you will get answers, but you won’t like them, and won’t understand how anyone can believe such nonsense. Rhetoric can be abused to mimic apologetics, and can be used used to convince anybody willing to believe that there are no logical inconsistencies.

Ironing out such inconsistencies is a monumental task; so great that God himself had to establish a whole bureaucracy to do so!

(PS… I think it is a perfectly comprehensible explanation that Mr. Smith first used the Rosetta Stone to translate the gold plates from Egyptian to Greek, then used existing translations of the Greek Septuagint version of scripture to translate similar passages from the gold plates, hence rendering nearly identical phrases in English in the Book of Mormon to those produced by English scholars centuries before… but wait, did Napoleon even find the Rosetta Stone when Joey was alive??? :D)
 
runningdude said:
The issue is you will get answers, but you won’t like them, and won’t understand how anyone can believe such nonsense. Rhetoric can be abused to mimic apologetics, and can be used used to convince anybody willing to believe that there are no logical inconsistencies.

Ironing out such inconsistencies is a monumental task; so great that God himself had to establish a whole bureaucracy to do so!

(PS… I think it is a perfectly comprehensible explanation that Mr. Smith first used the Rosetta Stone to translate the gold plates from Egyptian to Greek, then used existing translations of the Greek Septuagint version of scripture to translate similar passages from the gold plates, hence rendering nearly identical phrases in English in the Book of Mormon to those produced by English scholars centuries before… but wait, did Napoleon even find the Rosetta Stone when Joey was alive??? :D)
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It not a comprehensible explanation at all. Especially given the facts as Joseph explained them.
 
TexanKnight said:
It not a comprehensible explanation at all. Especially given the facts as Joseph explained them.
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I find it fascinating in a sense that the BoM speaks so clearly about the Trinity.

Tex, when did the LDS shift from this?
 
TexanKnight said:
These are not stump questions. If someone believes that strongly in the Book of Mormon, these should be easily answered.
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An article by Sandra Tanner included this quote from a 1978 publication of Deseret News:

THE GEOGRAPHY OF the Book of Mormon has intrigued some readers of that volume ever since its publication. But why worry about it?
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Efforts to p(name removed by moderator)oint certain places from what is written in the book are fruitless because the record does not give evidence of such locations in terms of our modern geography.

Attempts to designate certain areas as the Land Bountiful or the site of Zarahemla or the place where the Nephite city of Jerusalem sank into the sea ‘and waters have I caused to come up in the stead thereof’ can bring no definitive results. So why speculate?

To guess where Zarahemla stood can in no wise add to anyone’s faith. But to raise doubts in people’s minds about the location of the Hill Cumorah, and thus challenge the words of the prophets concerning the place where Moroni buried the records, is most certainly harmful. And who has the right to raise doubts in anyone’s mind?

Our position is to build faith, not to weaken it, and theories concerning the geography of the Book of Mormon can most certainly undermine faith if allowed to run rampant. 

Why not leave hidden the things that the Lord has hidden? If He wants the geography of the Book of Mormon revealed, He will do so through His prophet, and not through some writer who wishes to enlighten the world despite his utter lack of inspiration on the point.

SOME AUTHORS have felt ‘called upon’ to inform the world about Book of Mormon geography and have published writings giving their views. These books, however, are strictly private works and represent only their personal speculations. (Deseret News, July 29, 1978, Church News Section, p.16)  [utlm.org/onlineresources/cumorah.htm](http://www.utlm.org/onlineresources/cumorah.htm)
So your questions as to the locations of Book of Mormon events and places are not “easily answered” by those who believe the Book of Mormon, and even speculation on the subject is probably not something most Mormons want to spend time doing.
And, I am not undermining anything. I am a Catholic posting on a Catholic site.
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I don’t know your intent with the series of questions you posed. I prefer to be charitable and assume you are honestly seeking answers to questions you don’t know the answers to. After all, the whole purpose of the Non-Catholic Religions forum is to “explore the history and beliefs of non-Catholic and non-Christian faiths, dialogue with their adherents,” and all members of this forum are expected to be willing to learn from the dialogue (“If you aren’t going to go into the discussion with the resolution that you could just possibly have your view broadened, you may as well not go into it.”). forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=162027

I don’t see the connection between your being Catholic and whether or not you are trying to undermine someone’s faith. Regardless of your religious affiliation or the forum site you are posting to, you are either trying to undermine someone’s faith or you are not. I’ll leave it to you to understand your own motives.
 
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