M
Marie5890
Guest
No, you understanding is accurate.
If I recall correctly, earth life as we know it would be similar to telestial life. I think. It’s been a long time
- Status
If I recall correctly, earth life as we know it would be similar to telestial life. I think. It’s been a long time
T
TexanKnight
Guest
If they had tried to kidnap your kids like they did mine, you might…
P
PaulDupre
Guest
Outer darkness is not equivalent to the Christian idea of hell. In Christianity, murderers, rapists and all such wicked people end up in hell. In Mormonism they get telestial glory.
In current Mormon belief, very few people go to outer darkness; surely not just for believing in infant baptism or being baptized a Christian (as the BoM and early Mormon leaders taught).
The LDS belief about who qualifies for outer darkness (like most LDS doctrine) changes from one generation of Mormons to the next. When I left the LDS (1986) my bishop and many other Mormons told me that I was surely going to outer darkness, where Satan, his demons and all apostates go. These days you would be hard pressed to get a Mormon to say that anyone is going there.
Paul (formerly LDS, now happily Catholic)
Z
zaffiroborant
Guest
The thread there started to wish people well at Lent quickly devolved into to a smart aleck mocking of Catholics with the added implication that they barely manage to give up premarital sex for forty days. I really don’t see how the responses on that thread could be called gracious, and there is always an example of this type of thing when ever I browse the board.
R
RebeccaJ
Guest
The poster who instigated that diversion is a known anti-Catholic. I think it is a good idea to ignore his posts.
T
twopekinguys
Guest
Why did I even go look at that thread?
If they want to talk about sacrifice, check this out.
I want to do this sooooooo bad.
As far as year round sacrifice, I noticed our buddy hasn’t brought up cloistered nuns, or trappist monks. No surprise there.
If they want to talk about sacrifice, check this out.
I want to do this sooooooo bad.
As far as year round sacrifice, I noticed our buddy hasn’t brought up cloistered nuns, or trappist monks. No surprise there.
L
lax16
Guest
Marie - I agree that we must be charitable and realize some of the LDS are very sincere in their beliefs.
What really upsets me though is when I hear or read that the missionaries are telling people who either barely speak English or speak no English at all, that they are “the Book of Mormon people” and that there is archaeological evidence to prove it.
This is when I struggle because 1. the missionaries are not sincere, they are lying (unless they truly believe something that was told to them) and
2. they are preying upon innocent people who cannot verify what they are being told.
This is why I think we have to work hard to combat them where/when ever possible to protect these innocent people!
The posters who come on here I am guessing are young males who have gone on a mission. It really bothers me to think that they may have led poor unsuspecting people astray.
Therefore, I don’t see the Mormon posters here as victims, as some might say, but as predators.
What do you think? I am sure that you know many sincere LDS but, unfortunately, there is this other side to it.
Thanks for your (name removed by moderator)ut.
M
Marie5890
Guest
I have found that there have been LDS posters who do come here wanting to debate, proselytizing, etc etc. I have found a few who are more curious than anything.Marie - I agree that we must be charitable and realize some of the LDS are very sincere in their beliefs.
What really upsets me though is when I hear or read that the missionaries are telling people who either barely speak English or speak no English at all, that they are “the Book of Mormon people” and that there is archaeological evidence to prove it.
This is when I struggle because 1. the missionaries are not sincere, they are lying (unless they truly believe something that was told to them) and
2. they are preying upon innocent people who cannot verify what they are being told.
This is why I think we have to work hard to combat them where/when ever possible to protect these innocent people!
The posters who come on here I am guessing are young males who have gone on a mission. It really bothers me to think that they may have led poor unsuspecting people astray.
Therefore, I don’t see the Mormon posters here as victims, as some might say, but as predators.
What do you think? I am sure that you know many sincere LDS but, unfortunately, there is this other side to it.
Thanks for your (name removed by moderator)ut.
I completely understand your concern for those that the LDS church has claimed are the decendents of the Lamanites and use that the missionaries use that as a way in. I dont know if that is still the case for I have been out of Mormonism over 20 years.
I live in Provo for over 12 years and I knew many who were Native Americans, Polynesians and those from Latin America. They were part of the Lamanite ward. One of my most precious gifts I got (and I still have) when I was going thru a very hard time was given to me by a wonderful Navajo girl. I turquious ring of the reservation.
When I think of these friends of my past, I get angry for them. That they were lied to, mislead etc. But I also know that the program that they came to BYU under (I believe it was started by Spencer Kimball, he had a great love for the Native American people), did help them by giving them a chance at a better life. Reservation life, at least at the time, was very hard with HIGH alchoholic rates and drug abuse.
Not saying that that justifies the junk history of the BoM, but there was some good that came for many people of those who were deemed under the “Lamanite” title.
I had friends in the Lamanite Generation, a performing group that would travel world wide to perform. My understanding is that title for the group no longer applies (I think they are called “Living Legends” or something like that. Clearly, the church has backed off on the all decendents of the Lamanites are Latinos, Native AMericans and those of Polynesia.
M
Marie5890
Guest
I acknowledge TK that your experience was far more traumatic than mine was when it came to being LDS.
I am sorry for all that pain and suffering it has caused you and pray for your healing.
L
LongJourney
Guest
LDS and ex-LDS are not unique in having had extremely negative experiences with their cultural values.
K
KathleenGee
Guest
Thanks, guys, for clarification on hell and likewise, contrary sources to such ideas.
I have liked the Mormon people I have worked with in my work. We get along well and have same sensitivities about things, and one told me she was not raised in a prejudiced home.
I avoid going to their sites. It is very distressing how they reach out to non-American poor in the world with false information. And they are essentially anti-Catholic in their beliefs because the Apostles Creed is essentially the true creed. And over and over, their adversarial and obsessive stand against the universal Catholic church, including Orthodox, sets them back.
My issue is will I be willing to trust and accept them when they finally morph over the Apostles Creed and distance themselves from all their past claims? The day will come.
The Christian position is to accept that which is authentic and expresses true Christianity, those parts that are…
I have liked the Mormon people I have worked with in my work. We get along well and have same sensitivities about things, and one told me she was not raised in a prejudiced home.
I avoid going to their sites. It is very distressing how they reach out to non-American poor in the world with false information. And they are essentially anti-Catholic in their beliefs because the Apostles Creed is essentially the true creed. And over and over, their adversarial and obsessive stand against the universal Catholic church, including Orthodox, sets them back.
My issue is will I be willing to trust and accept them when they finally morph over the Apostles Creed and distance themselves from all their past claims? The day will come.
The Christian position is to accept that which is authentic and expresses true Christianity, those parts that are…
L
lax16
Guest
Hi Marie - Thanks for your response.
About six years ago I was test-driving a car at a local dealership here in Utah. The young, Hispanic salesman (in his early to mid 20’s) had a very, heavy accent and explained to me that he had just moved to Utah from Central California.
He moved here to be closer to the center of Mormonism because he found out from the missionaries that his people were the BoM people. He told me, very excitedly, that the missionaries explained that there was archaeological proof for it so he knew it had to be true.
I was sick to my stomach. At the time, I did not know what to say. But, now, knowing that people are being told these lies is enough to make me want to shout from the rooftops that the BoM is false!!!
Also, just prior to the election, The Salt Lake Trib did a story about Hispanics who did not support Romney. One woman being interviewed went on to say that she is Mormon because she is from the BoM people.
Honestly, now that we all know that there is no DNA connection between these people, they should stop using this as a missionary tool.
What it all comes down to is this: After sitting in the car with that salesman and not having the right words to say, I have to do something* now.* I do not believe that there are too many LDS males who sincerely believe this stuff. The females may be sincere as I seriously doubt they do much outside of their Mormon circles, such as visiting CAF websites, etc.
I think we have to know when to act with charity and to balance it with passion for the truth. I am sure you would agree.
M
Marie5890
Guest
You are exactly right. I have a family member whose experience with the Catholic Church (he was brought up Catholic, Catholic schools etc) was very very traumatic.
To the point he has very bitter and anti-Catholic views. Very similar to those who leave Mormonism and end up the same.
When one is traumatized, no matter where that trauma comes from, they can end up with a great deal of negative and bitter attitudes.
M
Marie5890
Guest
Oh wow…Just wow…Hi Marie - Thanks for your response.
About six years ago I was test-driving a car at a local dealership here in Utah. The young, Hispanic salesman (in his early to mid 20’s) had a very, heavy accent and explained to me that he had just moved to Utah from Central California.
He moved here to be closer to the center of Mormonism because he found out from the missionaries that his people were the BoM people. He told me, very excitedly, that the missionaries explained that there was archaeological proof for it so he knew it had to be true.
I was sick to my stomach. At the time, I did not know what to say. But, now, knowing that people are being told these lies is enough to make me want to shout from the rooftops that the BoM is false!!!
Also, just prior to the election, The Salt Lake Trib did a story about Hispanics who did not support Romney. One woman being interviewed went on to say that she is Mormon because she is from the BoM people.
Honestly, now that we all know that there is no DNA connection between these people, they should stop using this as a missionary tool.
What it all comes down to is this: After sitting in the car with that salesman and not having the right words to say, I have to do something* now.* I do not believe that there are too many LDS males who sincerely believe this stuff. The females may be sincere as I seriously doubt they do much outside of their Mormon circles, such as visiting CAF websites, etc.
I think we have to know when to act with charity and to balance it with passion for the truth. I am sure you would agree.
Yes, they need to give up that missionary tool…Wow…
T
twopekinguys
Guest
You have heard of them “Lying for the Lord”, and using “Milk before meat” right?Hi Marie - Thanks for your response.
About six years ago I was test-driving a car at a local dealership here in Utah. The young, Hispanic salesman (in his early to mid 20’s) had a very, heavy accent and explained to me that he had just moved to Utah from Central California.
He moved here to be closer to the center of Mormonism because he found out from the missionaries that his people were the BoM people. He told me, very excitedly, that the missionaries explained that there was archaeological proof for it so he knew it had to be true.
I was sick to my stomach. At the time, I did not know what to say. But, now, knowing that people are being told these lies is enough to make me want to shout from the rooftops that the BoM is false!!!
Also, just prior to the election, The Salt Lake Trib did a story about Hispanics who did not support Romney. One woman being interviewed went on to say that she is Mormon because she is from the BoM people.
Honestly, now that we all know that there is no DNA connection between these people, they should stop using this as a missionary tool.
What it all comes down to is this: After sitting in the car with that salesman and not having the right words to say, I have to do something* now.* I do not believe that there are too many LDS males who sincerely believe this stuff. The females may be sincere as I seriously doubt they do much outside of their Mormon circles, such as visiting CAF websites, etc.
I think we have to know when to act with charity and to balance it with passion for the truth. I am sure you would agree.
The guy in the second video used to be a temple worker.
M
Marie5890
Guest
The first clip made me shiver. Made me think of a sales person that has cornered you in.
If people have answers, just answer them. Or if you feel they are being antagonistic, then use Christ as your example and dont answer.
K
KathleenGee
Guest
Mormons have such a particular way of thinking, even lying for the Lord.
It is why they cannot face truth, no how many facts and exposes you show them. They want to be in the driver’s seat of their own eternal progression…it all coming down to the forbidden fruit that brought the downfall of man before God.
I read some of the comments following the second video presented by a former Temple worker, and it is opening up eyes…
It is why they cannot face truth, no how many facts and exposes you show them. They want to be in the driver’s seat of their own eternal progression…it all coming down to the forbidden fruit that brought the downfall of man before God.
I read some of the comments following the second video presented by a former Temple worker, and it is opening up eyes…
P
Porknpie
Guest
I’ve watched a few of the newcarabu videos in the past. He is the temple worker mentioned above, “Sir David”. Sadly, he has turned aethiest, which I know is the experience of numerous ex-Mormons turned Catholic here on CAF. I pray that he turns Catholic.
This one in particular has stood out for me as it was particularly touching. Makes me wonder about the having a temple in Rome and how any Italian could ever be Mormon.
youtube.com/watch?v=4Wmte70JJCg
L
lax16
Guest
I am sure the Italians will be told that they are the Book of Mormon people, too.
P
Porknpie
Guest
Then, by logic…I am sure the Italians will be told that they are the Book of Mormon people, too.
The Colosseum was built by Mormons?
Construction started in 72AD. I can see where this is going in the future… :sad_yes:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colosseum
- Status