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twopekinguys
Guest
Ferguson was the one that I was trying to remember.
His original mission was to prove the BoM correct, at all cost.
The cost in this case was his “testimony”, and as I remember, he left the lds church.
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His original mission was to prove the BoM correct, at all cost.
The cost in this case was his “testimony”, and as I remember, he left the lds church.
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Porknpie
Guest
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SteveVH
Guest
Great link. Thanks.
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Todd_Martin
Guest
First of all, thank you for being honest in describing yourself as “LDS”. Unfortunately, you appear to be in the minority, while other LDS run through this website pretending to be “Protestant” or “Catholic” or “Atheists” or "Quakers’.
Secondly, logic uses descrete set of parameters for deciding variables. You do the opposite. You have given a list of variables to determine if a question is logical and if the answer is “something you’d be willing to accept”
We already know what your answers to Tex will be, because we know you have already answered the question in your own mind. Is that quote from Joseph Smith? * No, not that one.* Did Joseph Smith say that about those whites or those blacks? *No, that one was taken out of context. *Is that Joseph Smith a racist and a charlatain. No, not him; he’s a little angel. :angel1:
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KathleenGee
Guest
Welcome, Todd.
Yes, I do likewise appreciate honest Mormons. But there is a movement of standardization within Mormonism to let go or cover up alot of their past beliefs.
It is a challenge to affirm what is authentic movement of the Holy Spirit Who is leading the Mormon people, however, gradually to the truth of Christ and Sacred Scripture, and also to point out when Mormonism does not want to reveal its past teachings.
The bottom line, however, in Mormonism is essentially ego-centric, in that the individual is constantly seeking its own perfection, even in the next life.
Catholicism’s enduring value is the mission of holiness by renouncing self and entering into communion with the Holy Spirit through Logos, the Living Word Made Flesh through Scripture and the sacraments, the summit being reception of the Eucharist. The Eucharist is the Word Made Flesh.
Yes, I do likewise appreciate honest Mormons. But there is a movement of standardization within Mormonism to let go or cover up alot of their past beliefs.
It is a challenge to affirm what is authentic movement of the Holy Spirit Who is leading the Mormon people, however, gradually to the truth of Christ and Sacred Scripture, and also to point out when Mormonism does not want to reveal its past teachings.
The bottom line, however, in Mormonism is essentially ego-centric, in that the individual is constantly seeking its own perfection, even in the next life.
Catholicism’s enduring value is the mission of holiness by renouncing self and entering into communion with the Holy Spirit through Logos, the Living Word Made Flesh through Scripture and the sacraments, the summit being reception of the Eucharist. The Eucharist is the Word Made Flesh.
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compuadam
Guest
Please do. I find it extremely difficult to tell what you believe I have and haven’t dodged.
Incorrect. Find me a quote that says differently.
I don’t necessarily disagree with you saying that LDS leaders have made racist statements. Prophets aren’t infallible. Didn’t Moses directly disobey The Lord when he was asked to speak to a rock, and instead hit it with his staff? He even went so far as to claim he worked the miracle by himself. Didn’t Nathan lie to David about what The Lord had told him? I’ll agree with you that Brigham Young had a personal prejudice against blacks. This is because he was a product of the age he was raised in. Were Moses or Nathan any less prophets because they disobeyed The Lord? If not, then why should Brigham Young be? If you don’t focus on his faults, you can see the many extraordinary things he did during his lifetime. Also, Joseph Smith was abnormally not a racist.
I’m not sure exactly what document you’re referring to. I did an extensive internet search and couldn’t find any book titled “Smith 1977”. Find a reference to the actual book that this came from.
Here’s another quote from JS to think over: “(referring to slavery) it makes my blood boil within me to reflect upon the injustice, cruelty, and oppression of the rulers of the people. When will these things cease to be, and the Constitution and the laws again bear rule?” (History of the Church, 4:544).
You’ve given me one verse, which I have responded to. You ignore my response and continue to claim that I’m the one that’s been ignoring it.
Yet again, you’ve given me one verse, which I have responded to. Also, you never answer why, If Joseph Smith was the racist you let on, he would have included 2 Nephi 26:33 in his book.
Tex, if you can’t find a quote that’s not taken out of context or from a reputable and confirmable source, it serves no useful purpose anyway. About your point on Kimg’s post: As you may have noticed, I appear to be the only LDS on this thread at the moment. Also, as you may have noticed, I’m getting 7-8 responses to every post I make. As I have stated earlier, I’m on a very cramped schedule at the moment, and I don’t get that much time on the computer. I’m sorry if I can’t post at your desired speed, and I’m sorry if I can’t respond to every post made, but I really am trying.
No you Haven’t. Show me a quote that says otherwise.
You have ignored and dodged it. But here is another site that uses BH Roberts comparison. I expect you will dodge this, too mormonhandbook.com/home/v…e-hebrews.html
Ok, thank you for the link. Can I ask why, whenever I provide you with a Mormon source, you say it has been discredited, however, you can give me a blatantly anti-Mormon website? I’ve already admitted that there are specific similarities between them. However, why would JS quote “View of the Hebrews” as evidence for the BOM if he plagiarized it? Wouldn’t he want to keep it out of the public eye?
Your going to need to do a little better than this. You give me one Mormon who says that Lindsay has given an “unkind rebuttal” to a book and all of the sudden he’s been discredited? Also, how has FAIR been discredited?
That’s not quite right. You see, if you believe my list is inaccurate just say something, as you’ve done many times throughout this list. However, I don’t think making a list of points for me to respond to counts as “e babysitting” me. What would you say if I asked you to make a list points you never answered, and then respond to said list?
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TexanKnight
Guest
Stephen168
New member
This thread is about the Book of Mormon which as been proven to be a 19th century work of American fiction. Joseph Smith said it was a true story, therefore he lied about it. You can’t avoid this fact.
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compuadam
Guest
That’s your opinion. The Book of Mormon has not been proven to be a 19th century work of fiction.
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kimg901
Guest
Do you have proof about your statement?
Stephen168
New member
You are wrong, see post 196.
Science has proved it to be fiction.
Stephen168
New member
I think s/he would have provided it if there was.
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SteveVH
Guest
You say that the BoM has not been proven to be a 19th century work of fiction. Fine. If we wish to disregard the fact that the DNA evidence completely contradicts the Mormon position, along with horses, elephants, steel weapons, sheep and everything else that is very out of place, I suppose one could hold the position that it still hasn’t been proven to be fiction, as obviously you do, but it seems more than a little unreasonable to many of us.
But here is my question. Does is not bother you that you have exactly zero evidence in favor of proving it to be true? I mean really, one can always say “maybe someone will discover something someday”. With the Christian Scriptures, we can walk on the streets of the cities mentioned in the sacred texts, or at least upon their ruins. We can go and see where certain biblical events occured. Jerusalem is still there, so is Bethlehem and Nazereth and Galilee, the hills, the mountains, the lakes, the rivers. Its all there, just like the Sacred Scriptures say. But we have not one shred of evidence supporting the great civilizations mentioned in the Book of Mormon; none. We have evidence of the ancient cultures that lived in Central and South America; the Mayans, the Incas, the Aztecs, etc… But no evidence for the Lamanites and the Nephites.
Just being honest, can you see why someone might be skeptical?
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TexanKnight
Guest
Actually, it has. Not a single non-LDS scientist, linguist, archaeologist, geographer, or anyone else, has given the book any credibility. In fact, they have stated there is zero evidence for the book.
Meanwhile, it has been shown that the book was lifted from several sources, including View of Hebrews and the Bible.
The First edition even said it was written by Joseph Smith.
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Porknpie
Guest
Steve…you forgot my favorite…chariots
The book is a fable,
There never was an apostasy in the Church, let alone a great apostasy. Just the opposite, the Church grew, guided by the Holy Spirt to all Truth.
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LongJourney
Guest
No apostasy is the most important.
As for chariots, they were possible, but just did not happen.
http://www.llamatopia.com/images/Eagle Llama Cart.JPG
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twopekinguys
Guest
and 197
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AllyC1991
Guest
Dont know if anyone had posted this before but I’m not going to read all the pages to see. I just thought I’d mention that there is a musical on Broadway called the Book of Mormon and it’s apparently a hit. I refuse to see it. It’s even won best musical in the Tony Awards. I’ve made it known that I refuse to see it and my “friends” have criticized me for being critical of it. I honestly don’t care. I won’t change my mind. I can’t wait for it to close.
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twopekinguys
Guest
Having not read any of the posts on this thread, and what it is really about, your post is totally off topic.
With that said, the Book of Mormon play on Broadway, is a parody and a musical, which means it is not a documentary.
It won 9 Tony award, and 1 Grammy award, as well as several others.
Not bad I would say. I’d go see a road production of it.
Now, back to topic
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RebeccaJ
Guest
I’m going to see it in a few weeks, with a Mormon relative, so…I don’t know why it needs to have a boycott. An unlikely audience we’ll make. A true believing Mormon and one who sees Smith and his claims as ludicrous. I think it is going to be fun.Having not read any of the posts on this thread, and what it is really about, your post is totally off topic.
With that said, the Book of Mormon play on Broadway, is a parody and a musical, which means it is not a documentary.
It won 9 Tony award, and 1 Grammy award, as well as several others.
Not bad I would say. I’d go see a road production of it.
Now, back to topic
Without reading the thread, I can see how someone might add “Musical” to the end of the thread title.
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