The Book of Mormon

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Perhaps. But even those newly baptized are baptized under false pretenses as they are not told the truth about doctrine, etc. And once they find out, they tend to leave. It is a huge problem with the lds Church
Most of the people I see being baptized these days are relatives or spouses of the already baptized. They tend to stay at a higher rate than those baptized knocking on doors. I hardly ever see anyone being baptized anymore who doesn’t come into the LDS Church as a result of a family relationship such as a marriage. The people on the streets that are cold-called can make a few clicks on the internet and tell the missionaries to get lost.
 
Unfortunately, there are always people being born and being baptized to replace those who are leaving. And I must admit that I am the only person in my area that I know of who has left the LDS Church. The people who were active when I was active are still active. My estimate is that more than two thirds of the children born in active Mormon households tend to remain active as they grow older.
In my ward, we are the only ones who went from completely active to resigned. However, there are loads of inactives who have never stepped foot in the church building. In fact, when we met with our bishop to briefly discuss our resignation (which he promptly processed), he mentioned that he had also received the resignation letter of someone who was “inactive” and had never attended at our ward.

Look at what the youth in the ward are doing once they leave home. From my observations in a suburban Houston ward, if the youth went to one of the BYUs or on a mission right out of high school, they have generally stayed in the church. Those who went off and did something else have left the LDS church.

When I was a YSA attending a family ward in the city, I learned that there were over 500 inactive YSAs on the ward list. Over 500. That is huge. We may not always see all those who are leaving in droves because they move out of their parents’ house and ward and drop off the radar.
 
Best of luck Irishman. Others have pretty much summed up the rebuttal aspect. Just prepare yourself for a nonstop bludgeoning of testimony without the opportunity to have an objective, fact-based discussion regarding Book of Mormon issues.

I thought I had the most down to earth and open family, but when it came to my exit out of the church my wife and we’re effectively quarantined. The few times we met to talk, it turned out to be just a testimony session and a request not to bring up any issues, especially anything related to the Catholic Church. I was totally caught by surprise at the lack of interest to discuss how I felt and have been really disappointed in them.

Hope you get a much better and more productive outcome!
 
I think the prayers are working…dinner with the folks went better than imagined.

We of course started out with the BoM, which i simply presented the lack of evidence and asked them to prove to me that the BoM was true. After dodging with testimony they realized they couldn’t prove anything. SEED PLANTED. Anywho, i then discussed what i liked about the Catholic Church and its succession from peter and explained that i felt closer to Christ through this church than i ever did with the LDS church. That’s where things got easier, they now understand and even support my decision. They of course told me that they would still pray for me and i told them i would do the same.

Now i can enjoy RCIA and Mass in peace and know that i planted a good seed with the folks. I got lucky i think, now i just have to deal with the Stake president and home teachers…
 
I think the prayers are working…dinner with the folks went better than imagined.

We of course started out with the BoM, which i simply presented the lack of evidence and asked them to prove to me that the BoM was true. After dodging with testimony they realized they couldn’t prove anything. SEED PLANTED. Anywho, i then discussed what i liked about the Catholic Church and its succession from peter and explained that i felt closer to Christ through this church than i ever did with the LDS church. That’s where things got easier, they now understand and even support my decision. They of course told me that they would still pray for me and i told them i would do the same.

Now i can enjoy RCIA and Mass in peace and know that i planted a good seed with the folks. I got lucky i think, now i just have to deal with the Stake president and home teachers…
You rock! Praise God!

Paul (formerly LDS, now happily Catholic)
 
I think the prayers are working…dinner with the folks went better than imagined.

We of course started out with the BoM, which i simply presented the lack of evidence and asked them to prove to me that the BoM was true. After dodging with testimony they realized they couldn’t prove anything. SEED PLANTED. Anywho, i then discussed what i liked about the Catholic Church and its succession from peter and explained that i felt closer to Christ through this church than i ever did with the LDS church. That’s where things got easier, they now understand and even support my decision. They of course told me that they would still pray for me and i told them i would do the same.

Now i can enjoy RCIA and Mass in peace and know that i planted a good seed with the folks. I got lucky i think, now i just have to deal with the Stake president and home teachers…
Beautiful.

Romans chapters 5-8 encouraged me when I was in RCIA. Still does. 🙂
 
I

“But how could a person with no formal education like old Joe complete such a work?”

No one claims that old Joe wasn’t intelligent, and he was well read. Many smart people had little or no formal education.
Just a side point but Joseph Smith Jr’s father was a school teacher, Smith had as much education as many people in those days. I read somewhere that Abraham Lincoln had only about one year of formal education and look what he wrote.
 
I’m happy for you that dinner went well with your folks. My family supported my conversion which made things much simpler. Of course we weren’t LDS so the leap wasn’t quite so far.
Now i can enjoy RCIA and Mass in peace and know that i planted a good seed with the folks. I got lucky i think, now i just have to deal with the Stake president and home teachers…
This is one of the biggest myths of the LDS. You don’t have to deal with anyone you don’t want to. Now that you know the truth you don’t have to justify to any man why you believe. Just smile, thank them for their concern and walk away. You owe them nothing.
 
I think the prayers are working…dinner with the folks went better than imagined.

We of course started out with the BoM, which i simply presented the lack of evidence and asked them to prove to me that the BoM was true. After dodging with testimony they realized they couldn’t prove anything. SEED PLANTED. Anywho, i then discussed what i liked about the Catholic Church and its succession from peter and explained that i felt closer to Christ through this church than i ever did with the LDS church. That’s where things got easier, they now understand and even support my decision. They of course told me that they would still pray for me and i told them i would do the same.

Now i can enjoy RCIA and Mass in peace and know that i planted a good seed with the folks. I got lucky i think, now i just have to deal with the Stake president and home teachers…
Thank you Jesus!!!
 
I think the prayers are working…dinner with the folks went better than imagined.

We of course started out with the BoM, which i simply presented the lack of evidence and asked them to prove to me that the BoM was true. After dodging with testimony they realized they couldn’t prove anything. SEED PLANTED. Anywho, i then discussed what i liked about the Catholic Church and its succession from peter and explained that i felt closer to Christ through this church than i ever did with the LDS church. That’s where things got easier, they now understand and even support my decision. They of course told me that they would still pray for me and i told them i would do the same.

Now i can enjoy RCIA and Mass in peace and know that i planted a good seed with the folks. I got lucky i think, now i just have to deal with the Stake president and home teachers…
Awesome news! Good luck in the future…
 
I think what bothers me the most about Joseph Smith is the wife swapping also, no prophet of God would be commanded to partake of such a practice…
Irishman,

You are correct in your thinking. A God who is all love, created man and women to be together. The marriage of man and woman is an image of the love between the Father and the Son. Joseph Smith having thirty five wives is an abomination before God as is his committing adultery a dozen times or so. In the OT, we can see what happens to those who commit adultery or get into plural marriages. Problems befall all of them. This is the opposite of those who remain faithful to each other, for they are blessed.

PnP
 
I think the prayers are working…dinner with the folks went better than imagined.

We of course started out with the BoM, which i simply presented the lack of evidence and asked them to prove to me that the BoM was true. After dodging with testimony they realized they couldn’t prove anything. SEED PLANTED. Anywho, i then discussed what i liked about the Catholic Church and its succession from peter and explained that i felt closer to Christ through this church than i ever did with the LDS church. That’s where things got easier, they now understand and even support my decision. They of course told me that they would still pray for me and i told them i would do the same.

Now i can enjoy RCIA and Mass in peace and know that i planted a good seed with the folks. I got lucky i think, now i just have to deal with the Stake president and home teachers…
Irishman,

This is wonderful. Keep moving toward the Truth that is in Jesus Christ and his Church.

There is nothing more powerful and moving than receiving the sacraments that Christ instituted to give us grace, especially the Eucharist. It’s well worth the journey and wait.

PnP
 
I think the prayers are working…dinner with the folks went better than imagined.

We of course started out with the BoM, which i simply presented the lack of evidence and asked them to prove to me that the BoM was true. After dodging with testimony they realized they couldn’t prove anything. SEED PLANTED. Anywho, i then discussed what i liked about the Catholic Church and its succession from peter and explained that i felt closer to Christ through this church than i ever did with the LDS church. That’s where things got easier, they now understand and even support my decision. They of course told me that they would still pray for me and i told them i would do the same.

Now i can enjoy RCIA and Mass in peace and know that i planted a good seed with the folks. I got lucky i think, now i just have to deal with the Stake president and home teachers…
Congratulations. Glad to hear that things went so well!
 
I think the prayers are working…dinner with the folks went better than imagined.

We of course started out with the BoM, which i simply presented the lack of evidence and asked them to prove to me that the BoM was true. After dodging with testimony they realized they couldn’t prove anything. SEED PLANTED. Anywho, i then discussed what i liked about the Catholic Church and its succession from peter and explained that i felt closer to Christ through this church than i ever did with the LDS church. That’s where things got easier, they now understand and even support my decision. They of course told me that they would still pray for me and i told them i would do the same.

Now i can enjoy RCIA and Mass in peace and know that i planted a good seed with the folks. I got lucky i think, now i just have to deal with the Stake president and home teachers…
Wonderful! It’s good to plant seeds because they just might grow. I think the fact that you have not rejected God completely and are searching for Christ is helpful. My parents were initially afraid that we were going to reject God and not raise our children to believe in God. A year later, they see that we are taking them to Mass and raising them in the faith and they are more accepting. They have seen that our lives have not become a train wreck but rather we are happier and our family is stronger. I don’t think they will ever be completely happy about it, but they are more accepting. I’m glad things are starting out so well for you. Expect some bumps in the road, but time is a great healer of wounds. It sounds like you have great parents.

Don’t worry about the SP, home teachers or any missionaries they may send your way. You don’t have to let them in your home. Tell them you’ll meet them at Starbucks to talk! 😛 Be strong and maintain boundaries. Putting up a crucifix and icons in your home can also encourage them to not overstay their welcome should they come calling.
 
For those who don’t think Joseph Smith could have written the Book of Mormon, you might want to look at the First Book of Napoleon which was written in the early 19th century:

archive.org/stream/firstbooknapole00gruagoog#page/n5/mode/2up

Some people think this was written by Modeste Gruau who would have been 14 years old at the time this was written, but that hasn’t been conclusively proved.
 
For those who don’t think Joseph Smith could have written the Book of Mormon, you might want to look at the First Book of Napoleon which was written in the early 19th century:

archive.org/stream/firstbooknapole00gruagoog#page/n5/mode/2up

Some people think this was written by Modeste Gruau who would have been 14 years old at the time this was written, but that hasn’t been conclusively proved.
Not sure what this has to do with anything. The fact someone at 14 wrote a book does not mean js did. And no one said js did not write the b of m. I think he did…copying from the Bible and other works available to him

So your point is a red herring.

Now, you might have made a better point if the French kid had claimed he got the book from an angel who led him to gold plates…
 
Not sure what this has to do with anything. The fact someone at 14 wrote a book does not mean js did. And no one said js did not write the b of m. I think he did…copying from the Bible and other works available to him

So your point is a red herring.

Now, you might have made a better point if the French kid had claimed he got the book from an angel who led him to gold plates…
Read the book. It is fairly easy to see that if Joseph Smith had access to this book it could have influenced his own writing of the Book of Mormon. Writing in the Biblical style wasn’t all that unusual in Smith’s day. You will see that many of the phrases in this book and other books of the time period show up in the Book of Mormon as well. The book I am linking next is a book that was commonly used as a text in the New York Public School system in Joseph Smith’s day. It is called The Late Great War between the United States and Great Britain:

archive.org/details/latewarbetween_00hunt

Simply copying the styles of these books and quoting the Bible Joseph Smith could have easily been able to write the Book of Mormon on his own. It is also possible that a Sidney Rigdon or an Oliver Cowdrey wrote the book based on these texts as well as texts like View of the Hebrews. The Book of Mormon is not an extraordinary accomplishment that has to be gotten around to disbelieve Mormonism. It is simply a product of the 19th century like many other books written at the same time.
 
For those who don’t think Joseph Smith could have written the Book of Mormon, you might want to look at the First Book of Napoleon which was written in the early 19th century:

archive.org/stream/firstbooknapole00gruagoog#page/n5/mode/2up

Some people think this was written by Modeste Gruau who would have been 14 years old at the time this was written, but that hasn’t been conclusively proved.
Interesting. It reads a lot like the Book of Mormon. Even uses “And it came to pass” a lot.
 
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