The Book Which is Most being read:Qur'an

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MartinJordan said:
You’re still skipping so many words by Jesus. Maybe it’s time time to make this an official complaint as this tactic of skipping verses is quite tiresome. Jesus will not be mocked like this .

John 14 does not begin from verse 18. You need to read before that. Let Jesus speak fully… For the sake of good order and the Love of God!

Peace be with you.

MJ
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I totally agree Martin.
 
:sad_yes:
JimmyDFG said:
I totally agree Martin.
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:sad_yes:

But at the same time I’m not lost on the irony that while the Quran( apparently to the OP ) is the most read book), the Bible is also read to “back” the Quran. Maybe the Bible has an edge then 😉

MJ
 
JimmyDFG said:
hasantas, " Jesus was % 100 human so the another comforter must be % 100 human"
No where does it indicate that the comforter must be 100% human. Can you show me in the Bible where it gives that it will be human?

I’ll point out more indications where it is the Holy Spirit…

This “Advocate” was to abide with them “Be with you always” (John 14:16), but muhammad has been dead for over thirteen centuries!

Jesus told the disciples, “But you know it, [the Advocate]” (John 14:17), but the apostles did not know muhammad. He was not born until over 500 years later!

Jesus also told the disciples that the Advocate would be “in you” (John 14:17). How muhammad could be “in” the disciples stretches all credibility. This reference of being “in” the disciples clearly is a reference to the Holy Spirit’s role of dwelling inside believers as the context of John (John 14:16-26) and the rest of the New Testament (Ephesians 1:13; 4:30) indicates.

The above comment should be so clear for you hasantas.

Jesus said that the Advocate would be sent “in My [Jesus’] name” (John 14:26). However, do muslims believe that muhammad was sent in Jesus’ name.

The Advocate whom Jesus would send would not “ He will not speak on his own” (John 16:13). However, muhammad constantly testifies of himself. For example, in surah 33:40, muhammad says of himself, “muhammad is . . . The Apostle of God, And the Seal of the Prophets.”

hasantas, Since we’re on John 14, I really think you should give John 14:6-7 an in depth look

I really don’t see muhammad glorifying Jesus in the verse you gave.

Saying “Jesus the son of Mary” is only giving half of the story.

Saying Jesus is the Son of God would be glorifying Jesus…That is something muhammad hasn’t done
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Holy Spirit came to Muhammad!
Is that clear enough?

I will ask by the same way.

Did Holy Spirit dwell among us for ever? (for he dwelleth with you) No. Yet Holy Spirit is not something to get a home on the world!

How could Muhammad be in us? Very simple. Qur’an is most read book:) Qur’an is the revelation which Jesus foretold. Qur’an is in heart, mind and senses of believers. And there is no any new revelation after Qur’an. So Qur’an(and it’s carrier Muhammad) is among us for ever. Qur’an will stand without any change for ever.

By the other verses it is understood that Jesus did not talk for a short time. His speechs were interest in until the end of world. Look at verses. Again Holy Spirit is not something to dwell among people. Holy Spirit is just a mediator of revelation.
 
hasantas said:
Qur’an is the book which is most being red. Espesially in nowadays of Ramadan Qur’an is being red in Mosques and homes. In Mosques Hafizs read and other Muslims listen to Qur’an. In Ramadan many Muslim try to read whole Qur’an in Ramadan. That is at least 20 pages per day. Here the fruit is that: People do not read but Qur’an make them to read. I mean it is charm of Qur’an which make people to read. That fascinating of Qur’an is sourced from pure revelation from God. Qur’an(pure words of God) foster moral heart and the mind. And it is also a bit musical. Qur’an teach how to pray and worship. Qur’an teach the moral laws. Qur’an teach or point all sciences. A child can memorize the whole Qur’an. etc. etc. And all those make Qur’an miraculous. Is there any book equal to Qur’an?
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Can you please state facts against your post that the Quran is the most book being read?

There are approximately 1.3, / 1.5 billion Muslims and around 38-40% of them which are Muslims they are illiterate.
 
hasantas said:
Holy Spirit came to Muhammad!
Is that clear enough?

I will ask by the same way.

Did Holy Spirit dwell among us for ever? (for he dwelleth with you) No. Yet Holy Spirit is not something to get a home on the world!

How could Muhammad be in us? Very simple. Qur’an is most read book:) Qur’an is the revelation which Jesus foretold. Qur’an is in heart, mind and senses of believers. And there is no any new revelation after Qur’an. So Qur’an(and it’s carrier Muhammad) is among us for ever. Qur’an will stand without any change for ever.

By the other verses it is understood that Jesus did not talk for a short time. His speechs were interest in until the end of world. Look at verses. Again Holy Spirit is not something to dwell among people. Holy Spirit is just a mediator of revelation.
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Oh my Lord, Dear God!

This reply just makes me bang my dead on my keyboard.

What are you talking about? The Holy Spirit is with us each and every day!

Are you saying that the Holy Spirit did not appear to the Apostles?

Are you saying that the Holy Spirit waited 600 years for Mohammad to come to spread the message?

Jesus Himself said in Matthew 12:31 ~

“Therefore I say to you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven.”

Associating the self proclaimed prophet of Islam as such, you are blaspheming the Holy Spirit.

:tsktsk::tsktsk:
 
hasantas said:
Holy Spirit came to Muhammad!
Is that clear enough?

I will ask by the same way.

Did Holy Spirit dwell among us for ever? (for he dwelleth with you) No. Yet Holy Spirit is not something to get a home on the world!

How could Muhammad be in us? Very simple. Qur’an is most read book:) Qur’an is the revelation which Jesus foretold. Qur’an is in heart, mind and senses of believers. And there is no any new revelation after Qur’an. So Qur’an(and it’s carrier Muhammad) is among us for ever. Qur’an will stand without any change for ever.

By the other verses it is understood that Jesus did not talk for a short time. His speechs were interest in until the end of world. Look at verses. Again Holy Spirit is not something to dwell among people. Holy Spirit is just a mediator of revelation.
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You are changing your initial claim that the comforter was Muhammad to now the comforter indwelt Muhammad? Which is it? The earlier poster gave the basic reasons for why the comforter cannot be Muhammad since the comforter was promised to the disciples and he would be with them forever. Was the Church then without the comforter Jesus promised to his Apostles?

I might also point out that Bahai use the same verse you are using to say that this in reference to their own Prophet. Bahai and Muslims need to read the text in it’s entirety.
 
KildareBrigid said:
Can you please provide proof for this claim?
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Qur’an is read in Arabic in every Islamic country. (Even I ignore translations of Qur’an in different languages. And there are thousands in depth interpretations of Qur’an also.) As original Arabic text Qur’an is most read book. The Arabic text of Qur’an is read by most of Muslims regularly. Because reading Qur’an is worship and Muslims are generaly devout about worships. For instance many of my friends read Qur’an regularly by day. (non of us are imam etc) . In that way we read Qur’an 3 or 4 times a year and in Ramadan many Muslims read the whole Qur’an(Hatim). Many Muslims are illeterate. Yes unfortunately the rate is high especially through women. For instance my mother cannot read or write in Turkish but she read Qur’an regularly in Arabic text(she does not know the meaning but just read words)

Muslims perfom Salat 5 times a day that make 40 Rakats in which verses of Qur’an are read from memorise. (In Ramadan most of Muslims perform Salat of Tarawih which is 20 Rakats by itself. That last about 25 minutes. Imam read and Muslims listen to. The mosques are filled during Tarawih). As geographically on the world the times for Salat are continual. That means there are always thousands of Muslims who perform Salat and read Qur’an in it. And also during Ramadan Qur’an is read by Hafizs in many mosques and Muslims follow Hafizs.

And also Qur’an are memorised at least by 1 million of people(Hafizs).(There are at least 120000 in Turkey)

So reading Qur’an is not like reading a novel.

As much I understand that Bible also is read very much. But all Christians do not read as much frequently as Muslims do and not in same language.
 
hasantas said:
Look at that Wikipedia(Byzantine–Sasanian wars) climax(edit). İt is explained .

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byzantine%E2%80%93Sasanian_wars

Surah Ar-Rum was revealed in 615 years.
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hasantas, A lot of those battles happen before muhammads time. Predicting the out come of a war is by no means a miracle.
A miracle to me would be raising someone from the dead, as Jesus had done to Lazarus. Or feeding four thousand out of seven loaves and a few fish.

One thing that is not a miracle is…

" Neither empire was given any chance to recover, as within a few years they were struck by the onslaught of the Arabs, newly united by islam. The Sassanid Empire rapidly succumbed to these attacks and was completely destroyed. During the Byzantine-Arab Wars, the exhausted Roman Empire’s recently regained southern provinces were also lost during the muslim conquest of Syria, Egypt and North Africa, reducing the empire to a territorial rump consisting of Anatolia and a scatter of islands and footholds in the Balkans and Italy. These remaining lands were thoroughly impoverished by frequent attacks, marking the transition from classical urban civilization to a more rural, medieval form of society. However, unlike Persia the Roman Empire (in its medieval form usually termed the Byzantine Empire) ultimately survived the Arab assault, holding onto its residual territories and repulsing two Arab sieges of its capital Constantinople in 674 and 718."

Also…
A letter muhammad sent to Heraclius

“In the name of god the Beneficent, the Merciful: (This letter is) from muhammad son of abdullah to heraclius the Great of the Romans. Peace be upon he who follows the right path. Furthermore, I call on you to embrace islam; if you surrender you will have peace, and God will double your reward, and if you reject, you bear the sin of the Arians.”
 
hasantas said:
Holy Spirit came to Muhammad!
Is that clear enough?

I will ask by the same way.

Did Holy Spirit dwell among us for ever? (for he dwelleth with you) No. Yet Holy Spirit is not something to get a home on the world!

How could Muhammad be in us? Very simple. Qur’an is most read book:) Qur’an is the revelation which Jesus foretold. Qur’an is in heart, mind and senses of believers. And there is no any new revelation after Qur’an. So Qur’an(and it’s carrier Muhammad) is among us for ever. Qur’an will stand without any change for ever.

By the other verses it is understood that Jesus did not talk for a short time. His speechs were interest in until the end of world. Look at verses. Again Holy Spirit is not something to dwell among people. Holy Spirit is just a mediator of revelation.
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hasantas, I’ve given you so many clear proofs that are in the Holy Bible.
I’m still waiting on your reply on where in the Bible does it say the comforter must be 100% human?
You have not yet given a sound rebuttal

Acts 4:12
There is no salvation through anyone else, nor is there any other name under heaven given to the human race by which we are to be saved.” ( Speaking of Jesus )

Mark 1:8
I have baptized you with water; he will baptize you with the Holy Spirit.”
( Notice it doesn’t say muhammad )
 
JustaServant said:
You do realize the words you are saying are the exact words fundamentalist Christians say about the Bible?
Christianity has a book, the Bible. But Christianity existed before the Bible was put together and Catholics certainly do not look at it as a kind of ‘magic book’. If the Bible disappeared tomorrow, we would still have Christianity.
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I don’t know about that. I don’t know to what extend you would have the Bible hypothetically disappear. Whether it’s just the Bible and not the Lectionary or perhaps both. Either way, Scripture is the integral part of the Liturgy of the Word. tbh I don’t know how it would fair with half of a mass. I’m sure Christianity could not exist without the sacrifice of the Mass.
 
hasantas said:
Qur’an is read in Arabic in every Islamic country. (Even I ignore translations of Qur’an in different languages. And there are thousands in depth interpretations of Qur’an also.) As original Arabic text Qur’an is most read book. The Arabic text of Qur’an is read by most of Muslims regularly. Because reading Qur’an is worship and Muslims are generaly devout about worships. For instance many of my friends read Qur’an regularly by day. (non of us are imam etc) . In that way we read Qur’an 3 or 4 times a year and in Ramadan many Muslims read the whole Qur’an(Hatim). Many Muslims are illeterate. Yes unfortunately the rate is high especially through women. For instance my mother cannot read or write in Turkish but she read Qur’an regularly in Arabic text(she does not know the meaning but just read words)

Muslims perfom Salat 5 times a day that make 40 Rakats in which verses of Qur’an are read from memorise. (In Ramadan most of Muslims perform Salat of Tarawih which is 20 Rakats by itself. That last about 25 minutes. Imam read and Muslims listen to. The mosques are filled during Tarawih). As geographically on the world the times for Salat are continual. That means there are always thousands of Muslims who perform Salat and read Qur’an in it. And also during Ramadan Qur’an is read by Hafizs in many mosques and Muslims follow Hafizs.

And also Qur’an are memorised at least by 1 million of people(Hafizs).(There are at least 120000 in Turkey)

So reading Qur’an is not like reading a novel.

As much I understand that Bible also is read very much. But all Christians do not read as much frequently as Muslims do and not in same language.
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Giving your opinion is not proof.
Do you have factual evidence to back your claim
 
JimmyDFG said:
hasantas, A lot of those battles happen before muhammads time. Predicting the out come of a war is by no means a miracle.
A miracle to me would be raising someone from the dead, as Jesus had done to Lazarus. Or feeding four thousand out of seven loaves and a few fish.

One thing that is not a miracle is…

" Neither empire was given any chance to recover, as within a few years they were struck by the onslaught of the Arabs, newly united by islam. The Sassanid Empire rapidly succumbed to these attacks and was completely destroyed. During the Byzantine-Arab Wars, the exhausted Roman Empire’s recently regained southern provinces were also lost during the muslim conquest of Syria, Egypt and North Africa, reducing the empire to a territorial rump consisting of Anatolia and a scatter of islands and footholds in the Balkans and Italy. These remaining lands were thoroughly impoverished by frequent attacks, marking the transition from classical urban civilization to a more rural, medieval form of society. However, unlike Persia the Roman Empire (in its medieval form usually termed the Byzantine Empire) ultimately survived the Arab assault, holding onto its residual territories and repulsing two Arab sieges of its capital Constantinople in 674 and 718."

Also…
A letter muhammad sent to Heraclius

“In the name of god the Beneficent, the Merciful: (This letter is) from muhammad son of abdullah to heraclius the Great of the Romans. Peace be upon he who follows the right path. Furthermore, I call on you to embrace islam; if you surrender you will have peace, and God will double your reward, and if you reject, you bear the sin of the Arians.”
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There are many miracles of Muhammad through which Muhammad did feed hundreds of people with very few meal. And Muhammad make little water so much to be enough for an army. There are many samples of that. BUt we cannot prove those miracles just we believe in. I point miracles which can be proven for any time. Qur’an foretell war and predict the conclusion of war. Qur’an predict in which way Mecca would be conquested.

Those are just remarks. Otherwise there is no need to write La ilaha illallah by stars into space.
 
IgnatianPhilo said:
You are changing your initial claim that the comforter was Muhammad to now the comforter indwelt Muhammad? Which is it? The earlier poster gave the basic reasons for why the comforter cannot be Muhammad since the comforter was promised to the disciples and he would be with them forever. Was the Church then without the comforter Jesus promised to his Apostles?

I might also point out that Bahai use the same verse you are using to say that this in reference to their own Prophet. Bahai and Muslims need to read the text in it’s entirety.
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Comforter was Muhammad. But you insist on Holy Spirit. So I say Holy Spirit came to Muhammad.

You say comforter will be with apostles for ever! Will apostles live for ever? No. Hence we should interprent in another way.
 
JimmyDFG said:
hasantas, I’ve given you so many clear proofs that are in the Holy Bible.
I’m still waiting on your reply on where in the Bible does it say the comforter must be 100% human?
You have not yet given a sound rebuttal

Acts 4:12
There is no salvation through anyone else, nor is there any other name under heaven given to the human race by which we are to be saved.” ( Speaking of Jesus )

Mark 1:8
I have baptized you with water; he will baptize you with the Holy Spirit.”
( Notice it doesn’t say muhammad )
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Comforter will dwell among believers. It is said in Bible. Did Holy Spirit dwell among believers?

Jesus said I will go so another comforter will come. Jesus say He will come instead of Jesus. Jesus was used to eat, drink etc. I mean Jesus was a human. So the comforter who will come instead of Jesus is supposed to be like Jesus. God had never sent an angel or anything else to preach people!
 
hasantas said:
Perhaps that help. It is said Qur’an is printed more than 3 billions.

stylist.co.uk/books/the-all-time-most-popular-books-in-the-world-revealed
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“The quran came out on top with over 3 billion prints”

hasantas, Prints or copies sold does not equal “Most being read”
I have numerous books that I haven’t read yet…because I’m in possession of a book doesn’t mean I’ve read it.

Furthermore, according to Guinness World Records, the Bible is the best-selling book of all time with over 5 billion copies sold and distributed. By your analogy the Bible is the most read book.

hasantas, Do you credible proof that the quran is the most READ book?
Articles from a weekly magazine is not good enough.
 
hasantas said:
Comforter will dwell among believers. It is said in Bible. Did Holy Spirit dwell among believers?

Jesus said I will go so another comforter will come. Jesus say He will come instead of Jesus. Jesus was used to eat, drink etc. I mean Jesus was a human. So the comforter who will come instead of Jesus is supposed to be like Jesus. God had never sent an angel or anything else to preach people!
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Please quote in the Bible where it says “I will go so another comforter will come”.

and
“He will come instead of Jesus”

Also
“So the comforter who will come instead of Jesus is supposed to be like Jesus”.

Where in the Bible does it mention that the Advocate will be human?

John16:13-15
13 But when he comes, the Spirit of truth, he will guide you to all truth.
He will not speak on his own, but he will speak what he hears, and will declare to you the things that are coming.

14 He will glorify me, because he will take from what is mine and declare it to you.

15 Everything that the Father has is mine; for this reason I told you that he will take from what is mine and declare it to you.

Has muhammad glorified Christ? In my point of view muhammad and quran tries to take away from the Divinity of Christ

For Christians, Pentecost is a holiday on which we commemorate the coming of the Holy Spirit( Advocate ) on the early followers of Jesus. Pentecost is the day on which the church was started. This is also true from a spiritual perspective, since the Spirit brings the church into existence and enlivens it.

“This event is recorded in the New Testament book known as The Acts of the Apostles. Chapter 2 begins, “And when the day of Pentecost [ten hemeran tes pentekostes] had come, [the first followers of Jesus] were all together in one place” (2:1). All of a sudden, a sound came from heaven, like a strong wind, filling the house where the people had gathered. Something like tongues of fire rested on their heads. “And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other languages as the Spirit gave them the ability to speak” (2:4).”

“At some point, Peter, one of the leading followers of Jesus, stood up and preached his first sermon. He interpreted the events of that morning in light of a prophecy of the Hebrew prophet Joel. In that text, God promised to pour out his Spirit on all flesh, empowering diverse people to exercise divine power. This would be a sign of the coming “day of the Lord” (Acts 2:16-21; Joel 2:28-32).
Peter went on to explain that Jesus had been raised and had poured out the Spirit in fulfillment of God’s promise through Joel (2:32-33). When the crowd asked what they should do, Peter urged them to turn their lives around and be baptized in the name of Jesus. Then they would be forgiven and would receive the gift of the Holy Spirit (2:37-39). Acts reports that about 3,000 people were added to the church that day (2:41).”

You stated hasantas “Comforter will dwell among believers. It is said in Bible. Did Holy Spirit dwell among believers?” With my above comment…I say Yes!!

“Christians are meant to live in the presence and power of the Spirit of God. The Holy Spirit helps us to confess Jesus as Lord (1 Cor 12:3), empowers us to serve God with supernatural power (1 Cor 12:4-11), binds us together as the body of Christ (1 Cor 12:12-13), helps us to pray (Rom 8:26), and even intercedes for us with God the Father (Rom 8:27). The Spirit guides us (Gal 5:25), helping us to live like Jesus (Gal 5:22-23).”

How does muhammad fit into the above comment? He doesn’t …plain and simple

You also said “God had never sent an angel or anything else to preach people”.
Why would he when everything that needed to be said was said by Jesus
He also gave us the Holy Spirit.

John 14:6
Jesus said to him, “I am the way and the truth* and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me

John 8:24
That is why I told you that you will die in your sins. For if you do not believe that I AM,
you will die in your sins.
 
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