The Book Which is Most being read:Qur'an

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Keep up the good work Jimmy. The love you have for God is showing in your every post. 🙂

Now, I cannot avoid pointing out that by choosing only to read selected words from Jesus is not a worthy cause to support the Quran. Very poor exegeses. That’s a shame.

However for any Muslim who takes any words of Jesus from the Bible that they use is not a bad thing in itself because the Quran cannot stand on its own.

Peace be with you .

MJ
 
JimmyDFG said:
“The quran came out on top with over 3 billion prints”

hasantas, Prints or copies sold does not equal “Most being read”
I have numerous books that I haven’t read yet…because I’m in possession of a book doesn’t mean I’ve read it.

Furthermore, according to Guinness World Records, the Bible is the best-selling book of all time with over 5 billion copies sold and distributed. By your analogy the Bible is the most read book.

hasantas, Do you credible proof that the quran is the most READ book?
Articles from a weekly magazine is not good enough.
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Also, the book comparison you showed is not an apples to apples comparison. It took the entire Qur’an against one translation of the Bible. What about the other translations?
 
KildareBrigid said:
Also, the book comparison you showed is not an apples to apples comparison. It took the entire Qur’an against one translation of the Bible. What about the other translations?
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Which Bible translations mention that Jesus sent the Comforter Mohamed?
MJ
 
hasantas said:
Comforter was Muhammad. But you insist on Holy Spirit. So I say Holy Spirit came to Muhammad.

You say comforter will be with apostles for ever! Will apostles live for ever? No. Hence we should interprent in another way.
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The argument has been made and it is more convincing than your anachronistic reading of John’s Gospel. Simply insisting it is so is not proof that yours is the right reading since many besides Muhammad have also claimed to be the comforter Jesus promised.

When the comforter is promised to the disciples forever it means that the Church will also receive the comforter and the Apostles certainty didn’t loose the Holy Spirit when they died but are in closer relationship to him.

There are three claimants besides the Holy Spirit to the comforter role Jesus spoke about. Montanus, Muhammad and Ali Nuri (bahai). Why is Muhammad the comforter described and they are not?
 
MartinJordan said:
Keep up the good work Jimmy. The love you have for God is showing in your every post. 🙂

Now, I cannot avoid pointing out that by choosing only to read selected words from Jesus is not a worthy cause to support the Quran. Very poor exegeses. That’s a shame.

However for any Muslim who takes any words of Jesus from the Bible that they use is not a bad thing in itself because the Quran cannot stand on its own.

Peace be with you .

MJ
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Thank you very much Martin.
It seems they choose what they think supports muhammad rather than clear proofs on the Divinity of Jesus
 
JimmyDFG said:
“The quran came out on top with over 3 billion prints”

hasantas, Prints or copies sold does not equal “Most being read”
I have numerous books that I haven’t read yet…because I’m in possession of a book doesn’t mean I’ve read it.

Furthermore, according to Guinness World Records, the Bible is the best-selling book of all time with over 5 billion copies sold and distributed. By your analogy the Bible is the most read book.

hasantas, Do you credible proof that the quran is the most READ book?
Articles from a weekly magazine is not good enough.
Click to expand...
Almost by other ways Qur’an is most read which I explained before.
 
MartinJordan said:
Keep up the good work Jimmy. The love you have for God is showing in your every post. 🙂

Now, I cannot avoid pointing out that by choosing only to read selected words from Jesus is not a worthy cause to support the Quran. Very poor exegeses. That’s a shame.

However for any Muslim who takes any words of Jesus from the Bible that they use is not a bad thing in itself because the Quran cannot stand on its own.

Peace be with you .

MJ
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Qur’an stand on it’s own. And Qur’an is not apart from Bible. And Gospels are not totaly apart from Torah.

Almost without Bible it is very certain that Qur’an is word of God. There is no need for Bible to prove that Qur’an is revelation from God but just that way make it more faithful.
 
hasantas said:
Qur’an stand on it’s own. And Qur’an is not apart from Bible. And Gospels are not totaly apart from Torah.

Almost without Bible it is very certain that Qur’an is word of God. There is no need for Bible to prove that Qur’an is revelation from God but just that way make it more faithful.
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With a good chunk of the quran rewriting the Old and New Testaments on muhammads view on what he thinks happen. How can the quran stand on its own?

I’m still waiting for my question on where in the Bible does it say or imply " comforter must be % 100 human"
 
hasantas said:
Qur’an stand on it’s own. And Qur’an is not apart from Bible. And Gospels are not totaly apart from Torah.

Almost without Bible it is very certain that Qur’an is word of God. There is no need for Bible to prove that Qur’an is revelation from God but just that way make it more faithful.
Click to expand...
Almost means very clear then that the Quran cannot stand on its own.

While the Bible can stand on its own without the Quran. 🙂

And you’ve avoided answering my question that why you skip verses from the Bible.

MJ
 
IgnatianPhilo said:
The argument has been made and it is more convincing than your anachronistic reading of John’s Gospel. Simply insisting it is so is not proof that yours is the right reading since many besides Muhammad have also claimed to be the comforter Jesus promised.

When the comforter is promised to the disciples forever it means that the Church will also receive the comforter and the Apostles certainty didn’t loose the Holy Spirit when they died but are in closer relationship to him.

There are three claimants besides the Holy Spirit to the comforter role Jesus spoke about. Montanus, Muhammad and Ali Nuri (bahai). Why is Muhammad the comforter described and they are not?
Click to expand...
Baha’is can accept that the 'Spirit of Truth" appeared in Prophet Muhammad…

*In the Gospel of John, in speaking of the Promised One Who was to come after Christ, it is said in chapter 16, verses 12, 13: “I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. Howbeit when He, the Spirit of truth, is come, He will guide you into all truth: for He shall not speak of Himself; but whatsoever He shall hear, that shall He speak.”

Now consider carefully that from these words, “for He shall not speak of Himself; but whatsoever He shall hear, that shall He speak,” it is clear that the Spirit of truth is embodied in a Man Who has individuality, Who has ears to hear and a tongue to speak. In the same way the name “Spirit of God” is used in relation to Christ, as you speak of a light, meaning both the light and the lamp.
*
~ Abdu’l-Baha, Some Answered Questions, p. 109

In the Word of God there is still another unity, the oneness of the Manifestations of God, His Holiness Abraham, Moses, Jesus Christ, Muhammad, the Báb and Bahá’u’lláh. This is a unity divine, heavenly, radiant, merciful; the one reality appearing in its successive manifestations. For instance, the sun is one and the same but its points of dawning are various.
~ Abdu'l-Baha, Baha'i World Faith , p. 258
 
arthra said:
Baha’is can accept that the 'Spirit of Truth" appeared in Prophet Muhammad…

*In the Gospel of John, in speaking of the Promised One Who was to come after Christ, it is said in chapter 16, verses 12, 13: “I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. Howbeit when He, the Spirit of truth, is come, He will guide you into all truth: for He shall not speak of Himself; but whatsoever He shall hear, that shall He speak.”

Now consider carefully that from these words, “for He shall not speak of Himself; but whatsoever He shall hear, that shall He speak,” it is clear that the Spirit of truth is embodied in a Man Who has individuality, Who has ears to hear and a tongue to speak. In the same way the name “Spirit of God” is used in relation to Christ, as you speak of a light, meaning both the light and the lamp.
*
~ Abdu’l-Baha, Some Answered Questions, p. 109

In the Word of God there is still another unity, the oneness of the Manifestations of God, His Holiness Abraham, Moses, Jesus Christ, Muhammad, the Báb and Bahá’u’lláh. This is a unity divine, heavenly, radiant, merciful; the one reality appearing in its successive manifestations. For instance, the sun is one and the same but its points of dawning are various.
Code: 
~  Abdu'l-Baha, Baha'i World Faith , p. 258
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That’s also skipping verses though Athra.

You stopped at verse 13. Jesus’ holy words continue …

14: He will glorify me because it is **from me that he will receive what he will make known **to you. All that belongs to the Father is mine. That is why I said the Spirit will receive from me what he will make known to you."

And so much more before and after.

This is not the way to corroborate even to a Muslim.

Peace be with you.

MJ
 
arthra said:
Baha’is can accept that the 'Spirit of Truth" appeared in Prophet Muhammad…

*In the Gospel of John, in speaking of the Promised One Who was to come after Christ, it is said in chapter 16, verses 12, 13: “I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. Howbeit when He, the Spirit of truth, is come, He will guide you into all truth: for He shall not speak of Himself; but whatsoever He shall hear, that shall He speak.”

Now consider carefully that from these words, “for He shall not speak of Himself; but whatsoever He shall hear, that shall He speak,” it is clear that the Spirit of truth is embodied in a Man Who has individuality, Who has ears to hear and a tongue to speak. In the same way the name “Spirit of God” is used in relation to Christ, as you speak of a light, meaning both the light and the lamp.
*
~ Abdu’l-Baha, Some Answered Questions, p. 109

In the Word of God there is still another unity, the oneness of the Manifestations of God, His Holiness Abraham, Moses, Jesus Christ, Muhammad, the Báb and Bahá’u’lláh. This is a unity divine, heavenly, radiant, merciful; the one reality appearing in its successive manifestations. For instance, the sun is one and the same but its points of dawning are various.
Code: 
~  Abdu'l-Baha, Baha'i World Faith , p. 258
Click to expand...
Christ said the comforter would guide them into all truth. Were we guided into all truth twice then?
 
arthra said:
Baha’is can accept that the 'Spirit of Truth" appeared in Prophet Muhammad…

*In the Gospel of John, in speaking of the Promised One Who was to come after Christ, it is said in chapter 16, verses 12, 13: “I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. Howbeit when He, the Spirit of truth, is come, He will guide you into all truth: for He shall not speak of Himself; but whatsoever He shall hear, that shall He speak.”

Now consider carefully that from these words, “for He shall not speak of Himself; but whatsoever He shall hear, that shall He speak,” it is clear that the Spirit of truth is embodied in a Man Who has individuality, Who has ears to hear and a tongue to speak. In the same way the name “Spirit of God” is used in relation to Christ, as you speak of a light, meaning both the light and the lamp.
*
~ Abdu’l-Baha, Some Answered Questions, p. 109

In the Word of God there is still another unity, the oneness of the Manifestations of God, His Holiness Abraham, Moses, Jesus Christ, Muhammad, the Báb and Bahá’u’lláh. This is a unity divine, heavenly, radiant, merciful; the one reality appearing in its successive manifestations. For instance, the sun is one and the same but its points of dawning are various.
Code: 
~  Abdu'l-Baha, Baha'i World Faith , p. 258
Click to expand...
“it is clear that the Spirit of truth is embodied in a Man Who has individuality, Who has ears to hear and a tongue to speak.”

Where in the Bible does it say or imply this? I’ve also asked this question to hasantas …as I’m still waiting for a reply. Because If it is not in the Bible , it should be read as is “The Spirit of Truth”
Anybody can say its them to fit their own benefit.
In John 8:24
That is why I told you that you will die in your sins. For if you do not believe that I AM,you will die in your sins.”

Notice the “I AM” and not the “manifestations of god” or other prophets?
 
JimmyDFG said:
Where in the Bible does it say or imply this? I’ve also asked this question to hasantas …as I’m still waiting for a reply. Because If it is not in the Bible , it should be read as is “The Spirit of Truth”
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Calling the Holy Spirit a man doesnt even make sense. Spirit or Ghost isn’t flesh and blood!:eek: It should not be forgotten that when Jesus appeared to his Apostles after rising from the dead , said not to be afraid. “Look at my hands and my feet. It is I myself! Touch me and see; a ghost does not have flesh and bones, as you see I have.” Luke 24:39
Anybody can say its them to fit their own benefit.
In John 8:24
That is why I told you that you will die in your sins. For if you do not believe that I AM,you will die in your sins.”
Click to expand...
Notice the “I AM” and not the “manifestations of god” or other prophets?
Click to expand...
:yup:

MJ
 
JimmyDFG said:
With a good chunk of the quran rewriting the Old and New Testaments on muhammads view on what he thinks happen. How can the quran stand on its own?

I’m still waiting for my question on where in the Bible does it say or imply " comforter must be % 100 human"
Click to expand...
26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

27 And ye also shall bear witness, because ye have been with me from the beginning. John 15

Firstly Jesus did not say directly “Holy Spirit” but instead “spirit of truth” or Paraklit(Parakletos). If Jesus had implied Holy Spirit so He would say directly.

Comforter shall testify of Jesus. If Comforter would testify Jesus so we must know Comforter as a witness. Because Jesus said "And ye also shall bear witness, because ye have been with me from the beginning. " Have ever any one seen Holy Spirit as a witness. No. But Muhammad was a witness for Jesus.

And.

7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:

9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;

10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;

11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.

12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.

13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. John 16.

Jesus said that the comforter would come after Him. But we know that Holy Spirit was almost with Jesus and Holy Spirit was used to be sent to previous prophets.

Jesus in verse 13 said He shall not speak of Himself. If Holy Spirit is God and Holy Spirit did not peak of Himself(from God) hence from whom Holy Spirit speak of? Is there another God? That description accord Muhammad. Muhammad did not talk from Himself because He was not used to know such things. It is written in Qur’an:

2-Your companion [Muhammad] has not strayed, nor has he erred,

3- Nor does he speak from [his own] inclination.

4- It is not but a revelation revealed, An-Najm(53)

It is not direct wirtten in Bible that Comforter must be % 100 human and that is not a suitable statement for Bible. From verses in Bible it is interpreted that Comforter must be totaly human. There is no a Ghost who dwell among people for ever! But Muhammad will dwell among us by His disciplines for ever. And Holy Spirit did not revealed apostles any revelation after Jesus. Did any apostle say that “Holy Spirit said that and that and that …?”

If Holy Spirit did not say anything directly so how could He be Comforter?
 
JimmyDFG said:
hasantas, Your explanation was your opinion…which doesn’t prove anything
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What I explained is not just my opinion. Any one could be witness of that in any Islamic country. That is a fact in life of Muslims. If you do not believe then you must assume that as if Muslims never live!
 
hasantas said:
26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

27 And ye also shall bear witness, because ye have been with me from the beginning. John 15

Firstly Jesus did not say directly “Holy Spirit” but instead “spirit of truth” or Paraklit(Parakletos). If Jesus had implied Holy Spirit so He would say directly.

Comforter shall testify of Jesus. If Comforter would testify Jesus so we must know Comforter as a witness. Because Jesus said "And ye also shall bear witness
Click to expand...
, because ye have been with me from the beginning. " Have ever any one seen Holy Spirit as a witness. No. But Muhammad was a witness for Jesus.

And.

7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:

9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;

10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;

11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.

12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.

13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. John 16.

Jesus said that the comforter would come after Him. But we know that Holy Spirit was almost with Jesus and Holy Spirit was used to be sent to previous prophets.

Jesus in verse 13 said He shall not speak of Himself. If Holy Spirit is God and Holy Spirit did not peak of Himself(from God) hence from whom Holy Spirit speak of? Is there another God? That description accord Muhammad. Muhammad did not talk from Himself because He was not used to know such things. It is written in Qur’an:

2-Your companion [Muhammad] has not strayed, nor has he erred,

3- Nor does he speak from [his own] inclination.

4- It is not but a revelation revealed, An-Najm(53)

It is not direct wirtten in Bible that Comforter must be % 100 human and that is not a suitable statement for Bible. From verses in Bible it is interpreted that Comforter must be totaly human. There is no a Ghost who dwell among people for ever! But Muhammad will dwell among us by His disciplines for ever. And Holy Spirit did not revealed apostles any revelation after Jesus. Did any apostle say that “Holy Spirit said that and that and that …?”

If Holy Spirit did not say anything directly so how could He be Comforter?

Are you well Hasantas?

Why did you start from John 15:26 ? What happened to your Bible before verse 26? Again I must ask patiently . Which is the official Bible Muslims use? For the Love of God answer this simple question .

MJ
 
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