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MartinJordan
Guest
So Muslims also uses the freedictionary website (not a Holy book) to understand the Bible verses and support the Quran?
Peace be with you.
MJ
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Peace be with you.
MJ
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JimmyDFG
Guest
Martin, You’ve read my mind lol. My thoughts exactly
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MartinJordan
Guest
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JimmyDFG
Guest
If muhammad say anything about repenting for sins , did he mention anything about believing in Jesus and that he IS/ “I AM”? (John 8:24)
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JimmyDFG
Guest
Someone that looked like Jesus? So why the deception? Even if IF it wasn’t deception …why billions and billions of innocent Christian souls to damnation?
But hasantas there is more documentation…
the Disciples some of them were witnesses from a (Mark 14:54). Also, there was an anonymous disciple whom Jesus, while on the cross, commanded to take care of Mary (John 19:26-27). Would the blessed Virgin Mary not know her own Son?
The Gospel of Luke reports that while Jesus was carrying the cross, “. . . there followed him a great company of people, and of women, which also bewailed and lamented him (Luke 23:27,). In addition to these people already mentioned the Gospels are scattered with references to Jewish leaders (Matthew. 27:41; Mark. 15:31), Roman centurion (Matthew 27:54; Mark. 15:39; Luke. 23:47) and soldiers (Matthew. 27:35; Mark. 15:24; Luke. 23:35; and John 19:18, 23) who all witnessed Jesus’ Crucifixion.
Also after the Crucifixion the countless eyewitness of the Resurrection of Jesus with the wounds of the Crucifixion.
So once again hasantas, The Spirit of Truth/Holy Spirit/Advocate testifies and glorifies Jesus, just as Jesus said He would …but we see in the quran that muhammad didn’t do as such.
Do you believe the Bible?
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JimmyDFG
Guest
Where in the Bible does it say this to support what you’re claiming?
“Spirit is generally interpreted as Jibril(angel Gabriel or Holy Spirit). But for comforter it is said “spirit of truth”.
You are answering your own questions here hasantas. You are saying the” Spirit is generally interpreted as" … “Holy Spirit”. The “comforter” is said to be Spirit of Truth. When its saying Spirit of “Truth” that would mean it will be Spirit.
I’ve mention to you before the Spirit of Truth is also called the Holy Spirit.
Where in the Bible does it say the Holy Spirit is or will be Gabriel?
“Jesus said another paraclete but not Holy Spirit who is almost known very well. Jesus said spirit of truth will preach people. So how a spirit would preach people?”
After the Baptism of Jesus the Spirit of God/Holy Spirit (Matthew 3:16) descends upon Jesus…and after his Baptism he begins his “preaching”. As we see in chapter 4 of Matthew.
And…
The coming of Holy Spirit at Pentecost to the Disciples and they then go preaching the good news and Matthew 28:19 “Go, therefore,* and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the holy Spirit,”
" So why would Jesus call Holy Spirit as Comforter or Paraclete?Jesus said another paraclete but not Holy Spirit who is almost known very well"
John 14:26
“The Advocate, the holy Spirit that the Father will send in my name—he will teach you everything and remind you of all that * told you”
As you can see in the above verse Jesus did call the Advocate the Holy Spirit. Are you ignoring this?
As for saying “known very well”, Jesus is known to the Disciples very well …because the Holy Spirit dwells in Jesus
But how is muhammad known to the Disciples?*
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JimmyDFG
Guest
Is there outside sources of islam that confirms that muhammad never lied?
With all do respect …generally speaking, lying is shunned in Islam. But I find it concerning when there is a practice called taqiyya where lying is permissible under three conditions.
“Muhammad was spirit of truth”
The Spirit IS Spirit . Muhammad was a man
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JimmyDFG
Guest
Greek was used at the time of Christ but he spoke Aramaic.
"Most scholars support the theory that Jesus spoke Aramaic and that he may have also spoken Hebrew and Greek.Stanley E. Porter concluded: “The linguistic environment of Roman Palestine during the first century was much more complex, and allows for the possibility that Jesus himself may well have spoken Greek on occasion.”
The translation wouldn’t be lost since the Disciple were about to talk different languages at the coming of the Holy Spirit/Advocate at Pentecost
Acts 2:4 “And they were all filled with the holy Spirit and began to speak in different tongues,as the Spirit enabled them to proclaim.”
Matthew 3:17 "…This is my beloved Son,with whom I am well pleased.”
Matthew 17:5 “…This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased; listen to him."
Does God the Father also speak metaphorical?
hasantas, you said “The meaning may change by translation”. The meaning MAY change is not grounds to believe that it has changed.
Jesus said himself “… but my words will not pass away” in Matthew 24:35
Do you not believe that the words of God can not be altered?
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JimmyDFG
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Furthermore on this hasantas, If muslims believe Gabriel is the holy spirit of allah, then we can substitute Gabriel for allah’s spirit in the following quran verses:
“So, when I have made him and have breathed into him of Gabriel, do ye fall down, prostrating yourselves unto him.”
“Such is the Knower of the Invisible and the Visible, the Mighty, the Merciful, Who made all things good which He created, and He began the creation of man from clay; Then He made his seed from a draught of despised fluid; Then He fashioned him and breathed into him of Gabriel; and appointed for you hearing and sight and hearts. Small thanks give ye!”
“And when I have fashioned him and breathed into him of Gabriel, then fall down before him prostrate,”
“And she who was chaste, therefor We breathed into her (something) of Gabriel and made her and her son a token for (all) peoples.”
“And Mary, daughter of 'Imran, whose body was chaste, therefor We breathed therein something of Gabriel. And she put faith in the words of her Lord and His scriptures, and was of the obedient.”
One piece of vital information you’re missing is in Luke 1:35
“The angel ( Gabriel ) answered, 'The Holy Spirit will come upon you,…”
Notice that Gabriel does not refer himself as the Holy Spirit
Hasantas where in the Bible does it say Gabriel is the Holy Spirit? and in the quran for that matter
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hasantas
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24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.
25 Then said they unto him, Who art thou? And Jesus saith unto them, Even the same that I said unto you from the beginning.
26 I have many things to say and to judge of you: but he that sent me is true; and I speak to the world those things which I have heard of him.
27 They understood not that he spake to them of the Father.
28 Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things. John 8
Jesus just not said I AM but also The Same and The Son Of Man(not son of God!) and I Am He. Jesus was the Whom was send and taught by God. Notice the underlined parts in which Jesus imply only Father. Jesus said that I Am the whom He did what Father told and commanded Jesus. Also it is written in Qur’an.
117- I(Jesus) said not to them except what You commanded me – to worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord. And I was a witness over them as long as I was among them; but when You took me up, You were the Observer over them, and You are, over all things, Witness. Al-Maidah(5)
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Eric_Hilbert
Guest
Guys, I just want to interject here to compliment you on the manner you are debating and discussing a very volatile subject.
Keep up the good work.
Keep up the good work.
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hasantas
Guest
Is there any statement in Bible in which Jesus said I raised from death?
The man looked like Jesus was to save Jesus from death. Unbelievers set a trap for Jesus but God frustrated that. That is not something about damnation. That was a honor for followers of Jesus.
If a man had looked like Jesus so how would people be able to know that he was not Jesus?
One of disciples said that he would not believe unless he did not see the wounds. Because he thought that Jesus should have wounds. But when he saw Jesus there is no any statements about wounds. Jesus tried to convince him a little.
And what is word of Holy Spirit in which he testify Crucifixion?
I believe in Bible but do you do unconditionally?
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hasantas
Guest
If you know hence you must record about lie. But even enemies of Muhammad could not say such thing!
That was a Fatwa but Taqwa is to not lie in any case. And also by the time that Fatwa was superseded.
We may use such terms for attributes of people. Muhammad was most righteus. We may say in that way also: Muhammad was essence of truth.
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hasantas
Guest
I do not know if Jesus had learnt Greek and there is no evidence for that. I think disciples wrote revelation in Greek because people were used to speak in Greek around.
There are many metaphorical statements in scriptures. That is because of why people have so many different thoughts and interpretation in religion and Godhead.
Words of God and Jesus will not pass away. Qur’an corrected the wrong interpretations for ever.
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hasantas
Guest
The term Spirit is not just used for Gabriel. For instance God say "our spirit for soul of Jesus. And Gabriel is not the unique angel. There are countless angels of God. Angels were used to be send for several works. Gabriel was used to be send for high works.
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MartinJordan
Guest
Again this is unacceptable way of convincing anyone if you skip verses. John 8 from the start is Jesus teaching in the Temple when an adulteress is brought to be stoned.
Hasantas can you be fair and go through that event? This is John 8:1 -11. What are your feelings in that event? Use your Bible and paste the verses.
Then continue on to John 8:12. As you started only at John 8:24.
Let’s go through it step by step .
Peace be with you .
MJ
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JimmyDFG
Guest
John 8:24 That is why I told you that you will die in your sins. For if you do not believe that I AM, you will die in your sins.”
hasantas who has the authority to forgive sins? "The Same and The Son Of Man and I Am He. "?
Luke 7:48 "He said to her, “Your sins are forgiven.”
We should also look at these verses for the " “The Same "
John 14:7” If you know me, then you will also know my Father. From now on you do know him and have seen him.”
John 14:9 "…Whoever has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’
John 14:11 “Believe me that I am in the Father and the Father is in me”
( notice the “I am” in there )
Matthew 28:18 “Then Jesus approached and said to them, “All power in heaven and on earth has been given to me.”
As we can see hasantas I AM is "The Same ". The Son of Man/ Son of God
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JimmyDFG
Guest
First there is references Jesus made in Bible that he would rise on the third day
John 2:19-22
19 Jesus answered and said to them, “Destroy this temple and in three days I will raise it up.”
20 The Jews said, “This temple has been under construction for forty-six years, and you will raise it up in three days?”
21 But he was speaking about the temple of his body.
22 Therefore, when he was raised from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this, and they came to believe the scripture and the word Jesus had spoken
Matthew 17:23
and they will kill him, and he will be raised on the third day.” And they were overwhelmed with grief.
Luke 9:22
He said, “The Son of Man must suffer greatly and be rejected by the elders, the chief priests, and the scribes, and be killed and on the third day be raised.”
I am not aware of Jesus directly saying " I have risen from death". But if we look at what else the Bible has to say about the Resurrection of Jesus. also a few questions I’d like to ask you
Matthew 27:59-60
59 Taking the body, Joseph wrapped it [in] clean linen
60 and laid it in his new tomb that he had hewn in the rock. Then he rolled a huge stone across the entrance to the tomb and departed.
Matthew 28:5-6
5 Then the angel said to the women in reply, “Do not be afraid! I know that you are seeking Jesus the crucified.
6 He is not here, for he has been raised just as he said. Come and see the place where he lay.
Jesus said of himself after his Resurrection in Luke 24:46
And he said to them, “Thus it is written that the Messiah would suffer and rise from the dead on the third day
Would not the “look a like jesus” still be dead and still in the tomb?
After allah brought up jesus…how did jesus come back to earth and show himself to the disciples?
Because the “look a like jesus” had died on the cross and in the tomb he would remain. For Jesus himself said in Luke 9:60 "But he answered him, “Let the dead bury their dead.But you, go and proclaim the kingdom of God.”
So wouldn’t the look a like still in the tomb?
“And what is word of Holy Spirit in which he testify Crucifixion?”
I’ll give you an explanation after each verse and at the end on how I think the Holy Spirit testifies to the Crucifixion.
We must go back to where Jesus mentions the Advocate/Holy Spirit
John 14:17 “…But you know it, because it remains with you, and will be in you” (Jesus referring to himself and the Holy Spirit)
John 14:23 “Jesus answered and said to him, “Whoever loves me will keep my word, and my Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our dwelling with him.( In part of keeping Jesus’ words of his coming Crucifixion )
John 14:26 The Advocate, the holy Spirit that the Father will send in my name—he will teach you everything and remind you of all that * told you ( Being reminded of all he told them…the Crucifixion being one )
Acts 2:4 " And they were all filled with the holy Spirit …”
Acts 2:32 “God raised this Jesus; of this we are all witnesses.” ( We see in Acts 2:4 and 32 they are filled with the Holy Spirit and witnesses )
Mark 16:15 “He said to them, “Go into the whole world and proclaim the gospel to every creature.”
Jesus telling his Disciples to go out and preach the Gospels is testifying and Glorifying Jesus , as he said the Holy Spirit would do. In doing so the Holy Spirit is testifying to the Crucifixion.*
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JimmyDFG
Guest
Jesus said himself in John 14:6 “…I am the way and the truth and the life…”
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