The Book Which is Most being read:Qur'an

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JimmyDFG said:
hasantas, You deny the valid knowledge that there is
The earliest known account of Mary’s birth is found in the Protoevangelium of James (5:2), an apocryphal text from the late second century, with her parents known as Saint Anne and Saint Joachim.
Mary was promised to Joaquin and Anne by an angel, was consecrated to God, and she remained a virgin all her life.

3:36 "But when she delivered her, she said, “My Lord, I have delivered a female.” And Allah was most knowing of what she delivered, “And the male is not like the female. And I have named her Mary,…”

Christian view is that Joachim and Anne where promised a girl Mary
Islamic view is that Mary’s parents where surprised at the birth of a girl

Furthermore on Aaron had no daughter so in Luke 1:5 “… was from the daughters of Aaron…” is without a doubt using a form of descendancy

In the Quran 19:28 “O sister of Aaron” is in question

I will ask again…Is “sister” in the Quran ever used metaphorically when speaking of relationships between people?
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Wife of Zacharias was close family and relative of Mary. Perhaps there were a brother of Mary whose name was Aaron. It was usual to use and give same name to sons.
 
jakasaki said:
Nothing within my post/reply to your thread specifies “best seller list”.

My query with google was “most **read **book” and the results I posted what just that!

100 times what? A day? A week? A month? A year?

Are 1.5 billion Muslims all literate?

Any facts/statistics to back this up?
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stylist.co.uk/books/the-all-time-most-popular-books-in-the-world-revealed

There may be very different conclusions.

My point was that a scripture make people to read. Bible is read very much and that is clear because Bible is scripture so people read it for centuries. And Qur’an is more amazing.

For instance my mother cannot read Turkish because she is illiterate but she can read Qur’an in Arabic even she do not understand. Reading Qur’an is worship for a Muslim.

A pious Muslim read Qur’an more than 100 times in life and a Muslim read Qur’an partly ever so often.

There are millions of people who memorised whole Qur’an(Hafizs).
 
hasantas said:
Wife of Zacharias was close family and relative of Mary. Perhaps there were a brother of Mary whose name was Aaron. It was usual to use and give same name to sons.
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“Perhaps”? Meaning its your own opinion?
 
hasantas said:
stylist.co.uk/books/the-all-time-most-popular-books-in-the-world-revealed

There may be very different conclusions.

My point was that a scripture make people to read. Bible is read very much and that is clear because Bible is scripture so people read it for centuries. And Qur’an is more amazing.

For instance my mother cannot read Turkish because she is illiterate but she can read Qur’an in Arabic even she do not understand. Reading Qur’an is worship for a Muslim.

A pious Muslim read Qur’an more than 100 times in life and a Muslim read Qur’an partly ever so often.

There are millions of people who memorised whole Qur’an(Hafizs).
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hasantas, Stylist magazine is a free weekly magazine for women that is published in the UK. Are you using this solely because it supports your argument?
 
JimmyDFG said:
hasantas, Stylist magazine is a free weekly magazine for women that is published in the UK. Are you using this solely because it supports your argument?
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Haha you guys. For those of you who did not yet know, you are probably realising that you are encountering to totally different way of logic - and you thought there was only one way of logic. But I suspect some of you already know but were only enjoying the chase 😃

For a Muslim, the starting point of logic is that the Quran is right and the authenticity of anything else is measured against consistency with the Quran. Evidence is always interpreted in the context of the Quran - which is why you often get that circular logic to prove that the Quran is right.

Those of you who thought that there is only one way of logic will not be able to understand why for Muslims, evidence follows conclusion. Conversely, Muslims like hasantas cannot understand why we do not see the Quran is the Truth since for him that is the only thing that is self-evident.

Welcome to the upside-down world of Muslim (Muslim, not Islamic) logic.
 
jimkhong said:
Haha you guys. For those of you who did not yet know, you are probably realising that you are encountering to totally different way of logic - and you thought there was only one way of logic. But I suspect some of you already know but were only enjoying the chase 😃

For a Muslim, the starting point of logic is that the Quran is right and the authenticity of anything else is measured against consistency with the Quran. Evidence is always interpreted in the context of the Quran - which is why you often get that circular logic to prove that the Quran is right.

Those of you who thought that there is only one way of logic will not be able to understand why for Muslims, evidence follows conclusion. Conversely, Muslims like hasantas cannot understand why we do not see the Quran is the Truth since for him that is the only thing that is self-evident.

Welcome to the upside-down world of Muslim (Muslim, not Islamic) logic.
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Yes I know what you are saying, I have talked with hasantas on another thread, and what I find is that if I can’t show him the exact words that he wants to see from the Bible on a particular subject, then it simply isn’t true. Reasoning from the Scriptures isn’t logical the way they see it, its either black or white.
 
hasantas said:
~ snip …

For instance my mother cannot read Turkish because she is illiterate but she can read Qur’an in Arabic even she do not understand. Reading Qur’an is worship for a Muslim.
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Your mother cannot read Turkish but she can read Arabic?

And she reads the Quran in Arabic and yet she "do not understand" per your statement?

If one does not understand what they are reading/reciting, what is the purpose?
 
jakasaki said:
Your mother cannot read Turkish but she can read Arabic?

And she reads the Quran in Arabic and yet she "do not understand" per your statement?

If one does not understand what they are reading/reciting, what is the purpose?
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Evidently, Muslims believe that if they read the Quran, it is considered worship even if they don’t understand what it means.
 
JMM1957 said:
Yes I know what you are saying, I have talked with hasantas on another thread, and what I find is that if I can’t show him the exact words that he wants to see from the Bible on a particular subject, then it simply isn’t true. Reasoning from the Scriptures isn’t logical the way they see it, its either black or white.
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Yes, either we conform to their understanding or we are wrong.

Before I starting studying Islam, I used to view it as our cousins in faith and that it was only an accident of birth that I was not a Muslim but now I realised that I cannot be a Muslim because it goes against my basic values - that evidence cannot follow conclusions.
jakasaki said:
Your mother cannot read Turkish but she can read Arabic?

And she reads the Quran in Arabic and yet she "do not understand" per your statement?

If one does not understand what they are reading/reciting, what is the purpose?
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Maybe it may help you understand that the word Quran means recital. So Muslims are doing what it says on the cover when the recite (“hafal”) the book.

There is a lot of rituals in Islam, not least with regards to the Quran. So you can understand with such a level of ritualism as below, why it is not surprising to non-Muslim eyes for that such a ritualistic culture would exalt the act of reciting without understanding
Code: 
[
Quran Classes](ETIQUETTE'S OF TOUCHING/READING THE QURAN)
It is the inviolability of the Quran: not to touch the book or text of Quran except in the state of ritual purity in ablution (wuzu) Allah the Supreme states “None may touch it, except with ablution.” [Surah Waqiah -79] It is however permissible to touch books of Sacred Law (Shari’ah), Hadith, or Quranic tafsir, provided that most of their text is not Quran.
Not to recite it when in need of obligatory bath.
It is unlawful (haraam) for someone requiring a compulsory bath (ghusl) to touch the Quran, even if it the Book is in a cover. Allah SWT states “None may touch it, except with ablution.” [Waqiah -79]
When one finishes reading the Quran, not to leave it open.
Not to place other books upon the Quran, which should always be higher than all other books, whether they are books of Sacred Knowledge or something else.
To place the Quran on one’s lap when reading; or on something in front of one, but NOT on the floor.
Not to wipe it from a slate with spittle, but rather wash it off with water; and if one washes it off with water, to avoid putting the water where there are unclean substances or where people walk.
When writing the Quran, to do so in a clear, elegant hand.
Not to write it on the ground or on walls.
When passing it to someone, pass it with respect. Not to toss or throw it towards someone.
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Yes… I wrote reading/**reciting… see my quote below… **…

I do know muslims recite their book. But my question is, how can you recite without understanding what you are reciting??
If one does not understand what they are reading/reciting, what is the purpose?
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jimkhong said:
~ snip…

Maybe it may help you understand that the word Quran means recital. So Muslims are doing what it says on the cover when the recite (“hafal”) the book.
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That’s like me, taking a chapter out of say… John… and reading the transliteration of the Greek language using English letters.

I would have NO idea what I’m reading…

Even if someone read to me in Greek and I had to repeat it back, again, noidea what I’m saying… That’s my point.
 
jakasaki said:
Yes… I wrote reading/**reciting… see my quote below… **…

I do know muslims recite their book. But my question is, how can you recite without understanding what you are reciting??

That’s like me, taking a chapter out of say… John… and reading the transliteration of the Greek language using English letters.

I would have NO idea what I’m reading…

Even if someone read to me in Greek and I had to repeat it back, again, noidea what I’m saying… That’s my point.
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Welcome to world of Muslims.

Don’t try to understand them with our sense of logic or our values. They don’t stretch that far :confused:
 
jakasaki said:
Your mother cannot read Turkish but she can read Arabic?

And she reads the Quran in Arabic and yet she "do not understand" per your statement?

If one does not understand what they are reading/reciting, what is the purpose?
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Indeed my Arabic is not so well and I read Qur’an every day. Though if you do not understand Qur’an while reading yet Qur’an make faith more powerful. That is something can be proved by experiment. You stay very far away from Qur’an that make it difficult to understand.

Reading Qur’an is some kind of worship. There are interpretation for meaning. If a book is meaningful although the meaning of words are not known so that make that book wonderful. All Muslims read Qur’an in original text and that is why I say Qur’an is most read!
 
Most of Muslims do not know Arabic but they read Qur’an very much. Thread is not about understanding but reading! Imams preach the meaning and interpretation.
 
JimmyDFG said:
hasantas, Stylist magazine is a free weekly magazine for women that is published in the UK. Are you using this solely because it supports your argument?
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Indeed Qur’an does not need such thing but some very skeptic fellows ask. I know the number of reading Qur’an is not through such statistics.
 
jimkhong said:
Haha you guys. For those of you who did not yet know, you are probably realising that you are encountering to totally different way of logic - and you thought there was only one way of logic. But I suspect some of you already know but were only enjoying the chase 😃

For a Muslim, the starting point of logic is that the Quran is right and the authenticity of anything else is measured against consistency with the Quran. Evidence is always interpreted in the context of the Quran - which is why you often get that circular logic to prove that the Quran is right.

Those of you who thought that there is only one way of logic will not be able to understand why for Muslims, evidence follows conclusion. Conversely, Muslims like hasantas cannot understand why we do not see the Quran is the Truth since for him that is the only thing that is self-evident.

Welcome to the upside-down world of Muslim (Muslim, not Islamic) logic.
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upside-down!

Qur’an is very high treasure. Unless someone else prove the direct contrary Qur’an is most high value of Muslims. Qur’an is a light which do not turn off! Nobody will be able to abolish Qur’an untill end of the world. If you see that as illogical but that is your logic.
 
jimkhong said:
Welcome to world of Muslims.

Don’t try to understand them with our sense of logic or our values. They don’t stretch that far :confused:
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Yeah! You westerns are so clever that nobody can understand you. And all Muslims are so silly!

Do not your religion teach something about humility?

Do you claim such thing because western states are so advanced in technology? Do you think that is just through intelligence free from politics?

If you have values so Muslims also have values. Are you clever or (candid) enough to understand?
 
hasantas said:
upside-down!

Qur’an is very high treasure. Unless someone else prove the direct contrary Qur’an is most high value of Muslims. Qur’an is a light which do not turn off! Nobody will be able to abolish Qur’an untill end of the world. If you see that as illogical but that is your logic.
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The Quran is a book. If the Quran is eternal and all that which you claim, it would be equal to God, making 2 gods. That is not possible.
 
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