The "born again" argument

[lutherlic]

You have got to be kidding. You are going to tell me that if a child that was a non-Catholic went to a Catholic school they would not try to convert them to be a Catholic.

My non-Catholic daughter attended a local Catholic High School and she never felt pressured to convert. Her non-Catholic Christian beliefs were never attacked or questioned. She was fully accepted just as she was. Of course, being a Catholic HS they certainly did teach Catholicism in religion class, they held Mass, they have statues of Saints, etc. But no, they showed her only respect and did not “try to convert her”.

Do you have personal experience with a Catholic school that is different?

 

[Mikeoffaith]

Only by our example. No Catholic school I am aware of tries “to turn the child to be Catholic.”

Yeah I have to say, in my three years of Roman Catholic High School, no one except my relatives every tried or wanted me to become a Roman Catholic. But strangely enough, I had a better relationship with the priests at school than any of my relatives.

In this particular situation, I think I would have thanked the woman for being concerned for my child’s salvation but let her know that we have her spiritual education and well being under control. Or if I was having a bad day, I would have told to thump her bible some place else.

 

[4Squarebaby]

So if I am following this right if a child is lead in prayer renouncing her sins and accepting “Jesus into her heart” as part of something like Vacation Bible Camp then she is thought to have left the Catholic Church?

Exactly why is the prayer harmful? Or why is proclaiming publicly that she believes Jesus is God harmful?

 

[Mikeoffaith]

You have got to be kidding. You are going to tell me that if a child that was a non-Catholic went to a Catholic school they would not try to convert them to be a Catholic.

Hey Rev Kev-

I have to tell you from personal experience, they didn’t. Not one of them, not even close. As a matter of fact, I think having that Roman Catholic high school experience made me a better Lutheran. I count several of the good fathers as close friends, but not one of them has even remotely tried to get me to go to the other side. If anything I have given then a different perspective on Lutherans that they didn’t have a clue about.

So unless you went to a Roman Catholic school and had a different experience, I think you are making assumptions of facts not in evidence.

 

[Mikeoffaith]

Sorry not buying this because I have seen different.

If you have seen different, expand on that and share the story.

 

[freerf]

Need a little help here. I did a search for this topic but came up empty.

My children are attending our local non-denominational Christian school (smaller classes, better overall social message, etc.) in our small town. If there was a Catholic option we’d definitely be there.

The other day a mother of one of the other students was telling me how “I was so close to leading your daughter to Christ at camp this summer”. “I kept asking her if she was ready to accept Jesus into her heart”.

I have to say I was 1) taken aback by her actions and 2) ticked off at her ignorance of our faith. I took the conversation to be we’re not Christian because I’m Catholic. Maybe my interpretation was wrong. But it also got me thinking, what are some of the better arguments to use with a Protestant over the “you have to accept Jesus in your heart” to be Christian. I know it’s part of their evangelization but it’s still irritating that she’s coming after my kids like that.

Thanks in advance for the help.

I’m sadly chuckling to myself that many of you are offended by this. Let me see, what is so offensive? That she is talking to your daughter about Christ? That she is asking her to accept Christ into her heart? These are offensive to Catholics? Or was it that she is “leading” her to Christ.

I would be surprised if Catholic teaching didn’t include the notion that you have to accept God into your heart. At some point, we all do. even those of you who are in the “true church”. What is the state of her salvation anyway if she cannot “accept Jesus into her heart”? That should concern you more than the intent of this Protestant woman.

regardless, I think you’re way offline in your assesment of the situation. She obviously considers you christian, otherwise why would she say it to you as if it were a good thing? if she thought you were a pegan, she’d probably had said nothing.

The best thing to do is to give her the benefit of the doubt - that she actually cares about your daughter! Take the high road.

You have two options: get all bent out of shape or be thankful. Sounds like many here are advising you towards the less Christ-like one.

 

[Nicea325]

Oh absolutely…

I recently moved to Iowa from Georgia, where I spent the first 15 years of my life… Religion came up in school one day, and my sister told somebody she was Catholic. The girl’s response was “AH! You’re not Christian?!” and that was a view that a lot of non-Catholics held… Very sad indeed.

It is called deep embedded ignorance. Born into ignorance and walk in ignorance.

 

[Nicea325]

I’m sadly chuckling to myself that many of you are offended by this. Let me see, what is so offensive? That she is talking to your daughter about Christ? That she is asking her to accept Christ into her heart? These are offensive to Catholics? Or was it that she is “leading” her to Christ.

I would be surprised if Catholic teaching didn’t include the notion that you have to accept God into your heart. At some point, we all do. even those of you who are in the “true church”. What is the state of her salvation anyway if she cannot “accept Jesus into her heart”? That should concern you more than the intent of this Protestant woman.

regardless, I think you’re way offline in your assesment of the situation. She obviously considers you christian, otherwise why would she say it to you as if it were a good thing? if she thought you were a pegan, she’d probably had said nothing.

The best thing to do is to give her the benefit of the doubt - that she actually cares about your daughter! Take the high road.

You have two options: get all bent out of shape or be thankful. Sounds like many here are advising you towards the less Christ-like one.

And if the story was the other way around…would you still chuckle?

 

[freerf]

It has probably never occurred to this woman that Catholics come to Jesus differently.

Actually, no - she does believe that you’re Christian - that’s why she’s trying to help you lead your kids to Christ. Remember, she has no concept of infant baptism, or of the Sacraments - she believes that in order to become a Christian (and be like Mommy and Daddy) children have to make their own profession of faith when they reach the age of reason.

What I would do is just sit down with her and explain to her about the Sacraments - that it is through the Sacraments that Catholics come to Christ, and that your daughter is participating according to her ability and age in the Sacraments, and that, thank you, she has a strong relationship with Jesus, already - she doesn’t need an “altar call.”

Follow that up with Apollo’s suggestion - teach her about the Church.

 

[freerf]

And if the story was the other way around…would you still chuckle?

I think Catholics need to be a little more evangelical. . . in fact the Priest at the Catholic church I frequently attend says the same thing.
If I sent my kids to a Catholic school or daycare or camp, and they were not approached in this way - evangelically - I’d think something was wrong! Don’t you agree?

 

[Faith1960]

What something says and what something does are 2 different things. It could say they won’t but that don’t mean they won’t.

You wanted a link to a website and she gave it to you. Problem solved.

 

[rev_kevin]

If you have seen different, expand on that and share the story.

During the 8 years I spent in Catholic school in Indiana the Non-Catholic kids were treated differently then the Catholic kids. The nuns would tell them they were not following the right faith and you should think about becoming Catholic. They were sometimes rude to them and treated them as if they were second class. Many parents of the non-Catholic kids would complain to the principal and the responce was, “well if you don’t like it then take your child out” and many did. Maybe times have changed or its different from one place to anothe. But in the 60’s and 70’s at the school I attended thats how it was.

 

[rev_kevin]

You wanted a link to a website and she gave it to you. Problem solved.

Ya problem solved. Thanks for bringing that to my attention. :extrahappy:

 

[rev_kevin]

Well I’m confused. The OP accused the other mother of ignorance. I suggested counter-evangelism. You called it hypocrisy. I maintained integrity demanded it. Now you’re saying it’s unfair. Where does that get us?

Why do the same thing that you don’t want others to do. You don’t want them to do it to you or your children so why stoop to the same level. Your doing the same thing they are doing. Look all I’m saying is you don’t want them to do it, then show the example and don’t do the same thing back to them. Its like you did it to me so I’m going to do it to you, now how do you like it.

 

[Reuben_J]

I’m sadly chuckling to myself that many of you are offended by this. Let me see, what is so offensive? That she is talking to your daughter about Christ? That she is asking her to accept Christ into her heart? These are offensive to Catholics? Or was it that she is “leading” her to Christ.

I would be surprised if Catholic teaching didn’t include the notion that you have to accept God into your heart. At some point, we all do. even those of you who are in the “true church”. What is the state of her salvation anyway if she cannot “accept Jesus into her heart”? That should concern you more than the intent of this Protestant woman.

regardless, I think you’re way offline in your assesment of the situation. She obviously considers you christian, otherwise why would she say it to you as if it were a good thing? if she thought you were a pegan, she’d probably had said nothing.

The best thing to do is to give her the benefit of the doubt - that she actually cares about your daughter! Take the high road.

You have two options: get all bent out of shape or be thankful. Sounds like many here are advising you towards the less Christ-like one.

Protestants teach thing differently so it is a concern for Catholic parents.

Even if the child follow all that, then what’s next? Will it affect her love for the Catholic Church and the Sacraments?

I don’t need a Protestant church to tell my child what to do regarding her faith. She has enough of it in my own Church and which I can be sure she will receive the teaching I want her to receive.

 

[Apollos]

Why do the same thing that you don’t want others to do. You don’t want them to do it to you or your children so why stoop to the same level. Your doing the same thing they are doing. Look all I’m saying is you don’t want them to do it, then show the example and don’t do the same thing back to them. Its like you did it to me so I’m going to do it to you, now how do you like it.

The other mother was leading the daughter into heresy while the girl’s mother was leading the other mother to the truth, and I consider that different. You thought it was ***the act of trying to convert someone ***that was at issue? Not for me at any rate. Come on, this is America. Everybody is always trying to convert everybody else to all sorts of things all the time - toothpaste, trans-fats, insurance, religion, smoking, and the list goes on.

**I wonder what the Catholic mother would have thought if the other mother tried to get the girl enrolled in the Brown Scapular or join a rosary club or something Catholic.

**Gitanesteel, what do you think?

 

[Cat_Herder]

I’m sadly chuckling to myself that many of you are offended by this. Let me see, what is so offensive? That she is talking to your daughter about Christ? That she is asking her to accept Christ into her heart? These are offensive to Catholics? Or was it that she is “leading” her to Christ.

I would be surprised if Catholic teaching didn’t include the notion that you have to accept God into your heart.

Where is “accepting Jesus into your heart” in the Bible?

 

[Richard_Kastner]

Where is “accepting Jesus into your heart” in the Bible?

Revelation 3:20
Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

 

[jmcrae]

So if I am following this right if a child is lead in prayer renouncing her sins and accepting “Jesus into her heart” as part of something like Vacation Bible Camp then she is thought to have left the Catholic Church?

Yes, because this is the membership ceremony into another denomination. It is not possible to be a member of two different denominations, at the same time.

 

[4Squarebaby]

Yes, because this is the membership ceremony into another denomination. It is not possible to be a member of two different denominations, at the same time.

You do understand we don’t see the recipient joining anything other then Christianity, no specific sect, as a results of the prayer being said?