F
freerf
Guest
When Jesus saw their faith, he said, “Friend, your sins are forgiven.”
Matthew 9:2-8
Mark 2:1-12
Luke 5:17-26
This seems to indicate it takes only faith. . .hmm. I like this Jesus.
- Status
Matthew 9:2-8
Mark 2:1-12
Luke 5:17-26
This seems to indicate it takes only faith. . .hmm. I like this Jesus.
F
freerf
Guest
I still have no idea what you object to. You are projecting on me all sorts of interesting beliefs. Who doesn’t believe, “Jesus asked for more than simple intellectual faith alone and an incantation”?
I suppose you are referring to an alter call? We look at that as a beginning of the walk. I agree that often the seed is planted only on hard rock. But often it takes root. Think of the thief on the cross. How much work did he do before being saved? again, it seems all he needed was faith.
C
Cat_Herder
Guest
He expects you to turn the page.
[BIBLEDRB]Matthew 25:31-46[/BIBLEDRB]
[BIBLEDRB]Mark 16:16[/bibledrb]
[BIBLEDRB]Lk 3:17[/BIBLEDRB]
Do you still like Him? I sure hope so.
F
freerf
Guest
Ah yes, i know this dogma. However, it just doesn’t appear to be true in the slightest to me, nor does it seem biblical. in fact, it seems contrary to biblical teachings in my opinion. again, lets not derail this thread? How many people were “on fire” during pentecost? On fire refers to the holy spirit who, as you know, is not confined to the catholic church.
C
Cat_Herder
Guest
I’m with you so far.
By the way, why do you call that object in your church an altar?
The Good Thief died under the Old Covenant, before the institution of Baptism.
C
Cat_Herder
Guest
Twelve: Eleven Apostles and the Blessed Virgin Mary, who tends to get written out of the picture by Protestants.
Take a good long look at the book of Acts and see how the Holy Spirit was transmitted from person to person.
[BIBLEDRB]Acts 2:38[/BIBLEDRB]
[BIBLEDRB]Acts 8:14-19[/BIBLEDRB]
Your church does not believe this, I take it.
F
freerf
Guest
That was a nice dodge. Now maybe back to your original question, “Show me where the Bible says that a prayer that does not involve either confession of sins or a material object (oil, water, bread or wine) results in forgiveness of sins.”
But yes, i know faith without works is dead, if that is what you’re getting at. But isn’t it wonderful how sometimes Jesus saves us without our having done any work at all? (think thief on the cross again)
C
Cat_Herder
Guest
None of the Scripture you cited involved prayer…
Again…
[BIBLEDRB]Mark 16:16[/BIBLEDRB]
And means both.
Of course God can save people without baptism. But my point is that He has not promised to do so and so no one should rely on salvation without baptism except the unborn and the invincibly ignorant (the latter lose their invincibility once they so rely).
F
freerf
Guest
Cat herder,
I enjoy your dialogue, but i must say we’re all over the place here. we went from sola scriptura, to Mary, to salvation through baptism, to salvation through faith, and on and on and on.
If you’d like to discuss one issue, I’m game. I suggest going back to the OP, and the validity of the Sinner’s Prayer (as you called it) for salvation.
“For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.” (John 3:16)
I enjoy your dialogue, but i must say we’re all over the place here. we went from sola scriptura, to Mary, to salvation through baptism, to salvation through faith, and on and on and on.
If you’d like to discuss one issue, I’m game. I suggest going back to the OP, and the validity of the Sinner’s Prayer (as you called it) for salvation.
“For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.” (John 3:16)
C
Cat_Herder
Guest
Actually, I think we did a pretty good job of staying on topic… all of the posts except two related to baptism or altar calls/Sinner’s Prayer/faith alone in some way.
I’m glad you enjoyed it.
I’ve covered all of these points in previous threads, though. Here is a mini-dissertation on the Church, Sacraments and salvation from one of them.
R
Reuben_J
Guest
I am wondering how this question should come about since I am not asking for it. You are putting a premise that’s non-existence in this discussion.
Let put this straight: there is no question of the child ‘languishing’ in her faith in the Catholic Church? Where did you get this information since I don’t see it being mentioned by the OP?
If you are saying that the Church does not do anything or does not have any activity to raise the faith of her followers, then I say that you are extremely mistaken. What do you think that this Church does not have that Protestant churches have?
Basically we are talking about a Catholic parent’s concern that her young child should be ‘evangelized’ by a different church. That’s why I ask, where does it lead to? If it is leading the child away from the Catholic Church, then it is indeed a concern which can possibly be the case if she is being brainwashed in their (Protestants) formation program.
So ‘accepting Jesus into your heart’ is a prayer. Are you sure about this? You haven’t answered the rest of my question – how it is done and what it entails.
If it is just a prayer, don’t you think that you are being silly here? It is just a prayer – what make you think Catholics do not say such prayer?
Evangelism is on-going in the Church. Now and then it is emphasized more or less depends on the needs and the situation the Church is experiencing. Evangelism was one of the main themes as the Church entered the new Millennium. Towards the end of the last Millennium this theme was already prominent, like Evangelism 2000. Again perhaps as a new emphasis, the Church sees it as a priority and acts accordingly. Theme like New Evangelism is being planned, carried out and is in place even at the Vatican level to address this need and requirement.
But what has this got to do with the OP? Why do you should think that a Protestant church should evangelize a Catholic under-aged child who is well evangelized herself by her own Church?
B
benidict
Guest
what Marian dogmas are wildly unbiblical?
W
wwolverine
Guest
ts really sad that the Protestants consider Catholics and non Christians and one can sense it on the site carm.org.
If one opens the site and goes to the forum for Catholics, the discussions are very insulting and hateful towards Catholics. They call us Papists, Marians, And even allah worshipers.
I really pity their thoughts.
God Bless them.
If one opens the site and goes to the forum for Catholics, the discussions are very insulting and hateful towards Catholics. They call us Papists, Marians, And even allah worshipers.
I really pity their thoughts.
God Bless them.
J
jmcrae
Guest
Jesus died for the sin of Adam. In that we are all born in Adam’s sin, He also died for us - but not “personally.” We become incorporated into Christ’s sacrifice on the Cross by means of the Sacraments, beginning with Baptism - that’s when our relationship with Him becomes “personal”.
J
jmcrae
Guest
Read the whole section - Jesus explains that this comes about by means of water and the Holy Spirit - which is to say, Baptism.
F
freerf
Guest
We are talking about a young child being sent to a protestant camp and being evangelized by protestants. This is what Protestants do. to everyone at Protestant Camp.
Yes, accepting Jesus into your heart is a prayer. That is the action you asked about. How a prayer is done and what it entails is obvious. There is no ritual associated.
Do i think I’m being silly, being that “accepting jesus in your heart is only a prayer”? no. that is the point. catholics are saying this is offensive. i’m saying if you find this offensive, there is a deeper problem with your christianity or you don’t understand what “accepting jesus” means.
Again, a Catholic child going to a Protestant camp will be taught about jesus as Protestants teach about Jesus. Part of that is an encouragement to accept jesus into your heart. “When in Rome. . .” Do you order Italian food in a Mexican resturant? Don’t criticise Protestants for being Protestants at a Protestant Camp. Thats just silly.
F
freerf
Guest
this is a new one to me, i have to admit. “Jesus died for the sin of Adam” seems to me an overly simplistic interpretation of His Sacrifice. Adam’s fall was the fall of all man. He died to redeem man, i.e., you and me. He died for your personal redemption. He died for you personally, regardless of your status in the Catholic Church. He died for sinners and saints, Catholics and Mormons, Jews and Gentiles. Our relationship with God is personal from the moment of conception.
F
freerf
Guest
I think you’re thinking of Matthew 3:11?
F
freerf
Guest
a few do, but not the majority.
J
jmcrae
Guest
John 3:5, actually. Here’s the whole passage:I think you’re thinking of Matthew 3:11?
John 3
1 Now there was a Pharisee, a man named Nicodemus who was a member of the Jewish ruling council. 2 He came to Jesus at night and said, “Rabbi, we know that you are a teacher who has come from God. For no one could perform the signs you are doing if God were not with him.”
3 Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again.[a]”
4 “How can someone be born when they are old?” Nicodemus asked. “Surely they cannot enter a second time into their mother’s womb to be born!”
5 Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit. 6 Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit** gives birth to spirit. 7 You should not be surprised at my saying, ‘You[c] must be born again.’ 8 The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.”[d]
9 “How can this be?” Nicodemus asked.
10 “You are Israel’s teacher,” said Jesus, “and do you not understand these things? 11 Very truly I tell you, we speak of what we know, and we testify to what we have seen, but still you people do not accept our testimony. 12 I have spoken to you of earthly things and you do not believe; how then will you believe if I speak of heavenly things? 13 No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven—the Son of Man.[e] 14 Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the wilderness, so the Son of Man must be lifted up,[f] 15 that everyone who believes may have eternal life in him.”[g]
16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son. 19 This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. 20 Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that their deeds will be exposed. 21 But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what they have done has been done in the sight of God.**
- Status