The bottom line on Catholics and gay intolerance

[buffalo]

Love is not tolerance

BISHOP FULTON J. SHEEN****Christian love bears evil, but it does not tolerate it.

http://www.catholiceducation.org/images/authos/Sheen8.JPG  *Christian love bears evil, but  it does not tolerate it. *

It does penance for the sins of others, but it is not broadminded about sin.
*The cry for tolerance never induces it to quench its hatred of the evil philosophies that have entered into contest with the Truth. *
It forgives the sinner, and it hates the sin; it is unmerciful to the error in his mind.
*The sinner it will always take back into the bosom of the Mystical Body;
but his lie will never be taken into the treasury of His Wisdom. *
*Real love involves real hatred:
whoever has lost the power of moral indignation and the urge to drive the buyers and sellers from the temples
has also lost a living, fervent love of Truth. *
*Charity, then, is not a mild philosophy of “live and let live”;
it is not a species of sloppy sentiment. *
Charity is the infusion of the Spirit of God,
which makes us love the beautiful and hate the morally ugly.

 

[Diane_Lynn]

Going back to the subject of the OP, I think that this attitude is intolerant. You may feel that it’s justified, but even if you’re right to think so, that doesn’t make the view tolerant, just justifiedly intolerant.

I am not at all intolerant of homosexuals, but I am intolerant of the ACTS that they commit and will never accept them as a right of marriage but instead will consider them as inclinations leading to sinful behavior.

Is it justified? I firmly believe it is simply because it is forbidden in both the old and new testament of the bible. I assume of course that one who does not believe God exists or simply denies Him might not agree with my assessment but I accept that as being what it is.

It is clear that there needed to be a Creator other than the possibility of millions of coincidences or accidents having taken place to not only bring into existence all of the universe but the selective creation of humans and the animals on this earth. What is the core belief of atheism/humanism that one might use to explain our presence if not for God the Creator?

 

[John_of_Woking]

I agree with the CCC on this. It is sadly becoming increasingly hard to speak your case in love.

It is hard enough to stand up for chastity before marriage…that will grant you a few odd looks…but heaven forbid you suggest that those with same sex attraction join us all in striving for chastity you are branded guilty of homophobia and will most likely end up in jail for a ‘hate crime’…fellow followers of Christ welcome to a new age of martyrs. This will soon be upon us…it is fast approaching here in England

 

[almostatheist]

Ask an atheist what they believe? And ask an almost atheist why he is almost anything like perhaps almost being a homsexual or almost being a Catholic hater?

Ok, I’ll ask two questions:

1. Why do you not believe in God?
2. Why do you deny Him yet welcome legalizing the ACT of homosexuality as if that is natural and deserves marriage status?

Religious beliefs must have been in the minds of the ‘bigots’ who framed our Constitution since they often raised His name in their conversations and papers. You sir are living in a land founded by religious men; I suppose you would call them bigots too?

I’m a happily married heterosexual. And I’m not a Catholic hater. My best friend is Catholic and my brother is a priest in training. They are the best and most “christ-like” examples of people I have ever met. They are also the reason I’m still trying to understand Catholicism instead of just ignoring it completely.

I don’t believe in God because I see no evidence (empirical or otherwise) for their being a god, and I’m not going to base my life (and my political views) on what some people tell me God said. I feel like there is as much evidence for aliens or fairies. Not trying to be offensive, that’s just how it seems to me. I don’t deny that there could be a God, but I don’t see HIM at work in my life, and if I started worshiping a god that I have no evidence for then I might as well worship aliens or fairies or something.

The reason I accept the expression of love between two people more than I accept the possibility of there being a god is along the same lines. I’ve seen people of the same sex love one another and interact with love and respect towards one another and a world that denies their love as real and natural. It’s inspiring, really. That love is more real to me than a distant god who apparently loves me enough to die for me, but has never bothered to actually talk to me.

Also, homosexual acts take place in the natural world all the time, with humans and animals alike. Some of our most celebrated philosophers, writers, politicians, and heroes had openly gay relationships. How is it not natural?

You should read some of the other stuff written by many of our founding fathers, like Thomas Jefferson or Thomas Paine. They most certainly had religious beliefs, but they were deists. Among some of the key principles of deism are the non-divinity of Jesus and the notion that God does not intervene with the general goings-on of the natural world, and that the only way to understand God is through reason, rather than blind faith. It was actually through many of the essays of the founding fathers that I came to be an agnostic and appealed to reason rather that interpretation of the Bible or the words of the holy father. Our founding fathers also did not place anything in the Bill of Rights about gay marriage for one simple reason: the Bill of Rights is meant to grant freedoms to the people, not take them away.

I don’t consider all religious people bigots. Just those who insist on making their religious views laws, simply because they are religious views. It’s fine if reason and the good of society coincide with your religious views. But I have yet to see compelling evidence of that. You might as well pass a law requiring everyone to be Catholic.

Also, you might want to talk to a gay person too.

 

[almostatheist]

Love is not tolerance

BISHOP FULTON J. SHEEN****Christian love bears evil, but it does not tolerate it.

Not tolerate = intolerance.

Thus Christian love is intolerant? Okay, but you said it.

 

[SteveGC]

I don’t consider all religious people bigots. Just those who insist on making their religious views laws, simply because they are religious views.

Very interesting. So, everyone who acquires their morality from non-religious sources are not bigots for attempting to inject that morality into law, but a religious morality injected into the law equates to bigotry? And so, when you yourself vote based on a morality you’ve acquired from wherever you acquired it, you would be offended if someone calls you a bigot for doing that…but Catholics are to be labeled bigots because they’re voting just like you are, except their morality (unlike yours) originates from Christian teaching?

Nice.

It’s fine if reason and the good of society coincide with your religious views. But I have yet to see compelling evidence of that.

And so, anyone who disagrees with your sense of morality, and casts their vote based on that, is a bigot, unless of course their disagreement isn’t based on a spiritual foundation?

You might as well pass a law requiring everyone to be Catholic.

Or…we could say, you might as well pass a law requiring everyone to be atheist. You think your atheistic sources of morality are not impositions on religious sources of morality? Every time someone seeks to legalize gay marriage, they are imposing their morality on me, but I’d never consider identifying them as bigots. But as soon as I seek to oppose it…all of a sudden I’m a bigot.

 

[Polaris]

Lets step back and look at the actions of the church, they say they love gays… Ok well first there was the UN resolution against gays getting killed by governments, the church comes out against it, then we have India, there is a move just to legalize it, the bishops come out against it, Jamaica were it is still illegal same thing, Texas vs Loving again bishops complain, Iraqi christians get killed church cries, Iraqi homosexuals get killed, the church doesnt say boo, and right now in Uganda they are reviewing a bill that will make homosexual acts punishable by life in prison or death for aggrivated homosexuality, even housing a homosexual will be a crime, a bill which has the full support of the bisops of Uganda. Then we have bishops in the US who wants to make sure that gays can be denied housing and medical care… Yeah you may say the church is tolerant but actions are a little louder. If christians were not balanced by secularists in this country, homosexuals would be in camps being killed and tortured, to “protect” the general population because as the church teaches all their human rights can be forfieted.

 

[gearhead]

Or…we could say, you might as well pass a law requiring everyone to be atheist. You think your atheistic sources of morality are not impositions on religious sources of morality?

Secular is not the same thing as atheist.

Just because a morality doesn’t depend on God, this doesn’t mean that it necessarily excludes God.

Every time someone seeks to legalize gay marriage, they are imposing their morality on me, but I’d never consider identifying them as bigots.

No, they aren’t imposing their morality on you. Imposing their morality on you would be prohibiting you from marrying the gender of your preference, or forcing your church to marry same-sex couples against its teachings. This isn’t happening.

But as soon as I seek to oppose it…all of a sudden I’m a bigot.

Well, do you think this definition fits?

Main Entry: **big·ot **
Pronunciation: \ˈbi-gət
Function: noun
Etymology: French, hypocrite, bigot
Date: 1660
: a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices; especially : one who regards or treats the members of a group (as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance

 

[Eric_Hilbert]

Thanks to all who participated in this discussion.
This thread is now closed.