The Cafeteria Is Closed!

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You mean I can’t get a side order of contraception, abortion, divorce, lay governance, or women priestesses?:rolleyes:
 
Oh! I need one! Maybe they’ll stop blowing out my candles and incense during prayers… :rotfl:
 
I love it! Thanks for turning me on to this site. Can’t wait to wear my “Cafeteria is Closed” tee-shirt to the next family BBQ. (Where we’ll roast some heretics.)
 
I’ll wait and see before believing that “the cafeteria is closed.” JPII spent a great deal of effort against pick-and-choose Catholicism and he didn’t succeed over the space of a quarter of a century.

I doubt that B16 will be able to do better than JPII did.

But, time will tell.
 
The cafeteria is closed? SWEET! Hey everyone, we’re getting universal health care, nuclear disarmament, just wages for all workers, the end of the death penalty in America, and a rejection libertarian materialistic economics! Awesome!
 
Philip P:
The cafeteria is closed? SWEET! Hey everyone, we’re getting universal health care, nuclear disarmament, just wages for all workers, the end of the death penalty in America, and a rejection libertarian materialistic economics! Awesome!
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Are you implying each of these must be embraced under pain of sin to be an orthodox Catholic?
 
Sure he is, he forgot to read the sign…he thinks that the cafeteria is still open…ITS CLOSED!!! 😛
 
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fix:
Are you implying each of these must be embraced under pain of sin to be an orthodox Catholic?
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Centessimus Annus is as much a part of the Church as Humanae Vita. You’ve got to eat the WHOLE thing, Fix, even your veggies!🙂
 
Philip P:
The cafeteria is closed? SWEET! Hey everyone, we’re getting universal health care, nuclear disarmament, just wages for all workers, the end of the death penalty in America, and a rejection libertarian materialistic economics! Awesome!
Click to expand...
Umm all these things are up for debate…no where does it say that there must be a state run universal heath care…and the death penalty is left up to the individual, and last time I checked is not found only in America…whats a just wage?..libertarian materialistic economics? I dont even know what that is…
 
Philip P:
Centessimus Annus is as much a part of the Church as Humanae Vita. You’ve got to eat the WHOLE thing, Fix, even your veggies!🙂
Click to expand...
I agree with a just wage and certainly the free market needs restraints or it can be come crushing. How those are achieved is a matter of prudence. The issue of the death penalty is not binding on Catholic conscience under pain of sin. Please see the CCC.

Nuclear disarmament? Are you getting that from the Vatican or the USCCB? Does the CCC call for disarmament specifically?

So, the issues you raised are accepted as authentically taught by the church, not spun by the left, by all orthodox Catholics.
 
Philip,

I believe you are too bound by present circumstance and by indefinable categories. As has been indicated is this war or that war precisely just or unjust. I’m sure the Kurds and most Shiites believe the war in Iraq was quite just and the Pope never condemned the war completely. What is a just wage. Should everyone make the same? Would that put us back into latrines and baths only once or twice a year because all incentive for making money would be gone? I don’t know.

What isn’t vague are the dogmas of the Church, sexual abstinence outside marriage, serious fairness in dealing with others, etc. All three of these require obedience but some openly flaunt all three. Will your specific answers “fair wages”, etc. really address the issues? I really wish that it was that simple.

Dan L
 
Here’s some food on wages, eat up:

From the Catechism, par. 2434:

In determining fair pay both the needs and the contributions of each person must be taken into account. "Remuneration for work should guarantee man the opportunity to provide a dignified livelihood for himself and his family on the material, social, cultural, and spiritual level, taking into account the role and the productivity of each, the state of the business, and the common good."222 Agreement between the parties is not sufficient to justify morally the amount to be received in wages. [emphasis mine]

From Centessimus Annus, par. indicated before each passage:
  1. The Pope [Leo XIII] immediately adds *another right *which the worker has as a person. This is the right to a “just wage”, which cannot be left to the “free consent of the parties, so that the employer, having paid what was agreed upon, has done his part and seemingly is not called upon to do anything beyond”.23 It was said at the time that the State does not have the power to intervene in the terms of these contracts, except to ensure the fulfilment of what had been explicitly agreed upon. This concept of relations between employers and employees, purely pragmatic and inspired by a thorough-going individualism, is severely censured in the Encyclical as contrary to the twofold nature of work as a personal and necessary reality. For if work as something personal belongs to the sphere of the individual’s free use of his own abilities and energy, *as something necessary *it is governed by the grave obligation of every individual to ensure “the preservation of life”. “It necessarily follows”, the Pope concludes, “that every individual has a natural right to procure what is required to live; and the poor can procure that in no other way than by what they can earn through their work”.24
A workman’s wages should be sufficient to enable him to support himself, his wife and his children. “If through necessity or fear of a worse evil the workman accepts harder conditions because an employer or contractor will afford no better, he is made the victim of force and injustice”.25
…Furthermore, society and the State must ensure wage levels adequate for the maintenance of the worker and his family, including a certain amount for savings. This requires a continuous effort to improve workers’ training and capability so that their work will be more skilled and productive, as well as careful controls and adequate legislative measures to block shameful forms of exploitation, especially to the disadvantage of the most vulnerable workers, of immigrants and of those on the margins of society. The role of trade unions in negotiating minimum salaries and working conditions is decisive in this area.

A great document which all Catholics can be justly proud of. Great ammo for defending the Church against those who claim she is regressive and reactionary. I encourage you to read the entire document at vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/encyclicals/documents/hf_jp-ii_enc_01051991_centesimus-annus_en.html
 
Philip P:
Here’s some food on wages, eat up:

From the Catechism, par. 2434:

In determining fair pay both the needs and the contributions of each person must be taken into account. "Remuneration for work should guarantee man the opportunity to provide a dignified livelihood for himself and his family on the material, social, cultural, and spiritual level, taking into account the role and the productivity of each, the state of the business, and the common good."222 Agreement between the parties is not sufficient to justify morally the amount to be received in wages. [emphasis mine]

From Centessimus Annus, par. indicated before each passage:
  1. The Pope [Leo XIII] immediately adds *another right *which the worker has as a person. This is the right to a “just wage”, which cannot be left to the “free consent of the parties, so that the employer, having paid what was agreed upon, has done his part and seemingly is not called upon to do anything beyond”.23 It was said at the time that the State does not have the power to intervene in the terms of these contracts, except to ensure the fulfilment of what had been explicitly agreed upon. This concept of relations between employers and employees, purely pragmatic and inspired by a thorough-going individualism, is severely censured in the Encyclical as contrary to the twofold nature of work as a personal and necessary reality. For if work as something personal belongs to the sphere of the individual’s free use of his own abilities and energy, *as something necessary *it is governed by the grave obligation of every individual to ensure “the preservation of life”. “It necessarily follows”, the Pope concludes, “that every individual has a natural right to procure what is required to live; and the poor can procure that in no other way than by what they can earn through their work”.24
A workman’s wages should be sufficient to enable him to support himself, his wife and his children. “If through necessity or fear of a worse evil the workman accepts harder conditions because an employer or contractor will afford no better, he is made the victim of force and injustice”.25
…Furthermore, society and the State must ensure wage levels adequate for the maintenance of the worker and his family, including a certain amount for savings. This requires a continuous effort to improve workers’ training and capability so that their work will be more skilled and productive, as well as careful controls and adequate legislative measures to block shameful forms of exploitation, especially to the disadvantage of the most vulnerable workers, of immigrants and of those on the margins of society. The role of trade unions in negotiating minimum salaries and working conditions is decisive in this area.

A great document which all Catholics can be justly proud of. Great ammo for defending the Church against those who claim she is regressive and reactionary. I encourage you to read the entire document at vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/encyclicals/document
s/hf_jp-ii_enc_01051991_centesimus-annus_en.html
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Who is disagreeing with any of this? How this is practiced would depend on prudence and the circumstances in each case.

This is very different from an issue like contraception which is always wrong within the conjugal act. What is your point?
 
…the good news? God never closes the door… we might, but he doesn’t!

Peace:thumbsup:
 
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