The call to 'jihad' by Prophet Jesus (pbuh)

[Denis_Laplante]

Yes, you are quite right and I too am guilty of straying off-topic on this thread.

Anyhow, I think Christians, in focusing on the minor details of this episode, are missing the big picture here.

The main question that needs to be addressed in this instance is:

**Why did they all go in the middle of the night, to Gethsemane — an olive press — a courtyard built of stone walls some 5 miles out of town.?.. and why did they bring swords with them, even though it may have been just two(2) that the disciples could find at that time and place?

If their purpose in going to Gethsemane was entirely peaceful, then why didn’t Jesus (pbuh) just order his disciples to put the 2 swords away while they were still in the upper-room?**

Nay, the only purpose of swords or guns is to maim and to kill. People did not carry swords to pare apples and bananas in the time of Jesus Christ.

As for the “misconceived strategy”, remember that Jesus (pbuh) was not preparing for war against the Roman army but rather, since his “friend” Judas was in league with the Temple authorities, he was expecting a clandestine, underhand attempt by the Jewish oligarchy to seize him… and it was against the Jewish temple servants and the riff-raff of the town that he was planning this particular ‘jihad’.

As things turned out, it was Roman soldiers who unexpectedly overpowered them in Gethsemane and the fact that the disciples fell asleep should in no way detract from the tactical shrewdness of Jesus (pbuh) in going to Gethsemane and not staying in the upper-room.

Why the Garden of Gethsemane? Good question, Hamba2han…
It was mentioned in one Gospel that they often used to gather there. Moreover, the mention of the “garden” reminds us of the original one: the Garden of Eden! And so does the one garden where Jesus’ tomb was!

 

[CentralFLJames]

Irrespective of anything else that has been said so far the one single indisputable fact that remains is even if anyone could find even a trace of truth in Hamba’s claim that Jesus taught Jihad (which he clearly did not) today we have NOT A SINGLE CHRISTIAN who believes this - NONE! There is not ONE TERRORIST calling themselves “Christian” and killing people in God’s name! NOT ONE! Where we have 10’s of thousands of Christians being murdered monthly around the globe (especially in Africa) by foaming at the mouth Islamics we have not one case of Christians actively plotting “in the name of God” to kill Muslims in their homes, in the city and wherever they are in the name of Jesus. Only Islamics uses the battle cry "Allahu Akbar [min kulli shay]’ - (“God is greater than everything”) as they blow themselves and innocent fellow humans into dog meat or violently decapitate or cut the throats of those they hate.

But God does not need murderers to proclaim His greatness! God shows His greatness by His Mercy and by His vast and inconceivable Creation of the Universe and the miracle of Life and through peaceful human interaction. God will send his wrath on anyone who worships false Gods just as surely as He will send His Holy Wrath on evil men who try to act in His name - as if their ignorant human mind’s can know God’s will! God have mercy on these evil men of Islam who think God needs them for anything but for fuel for the great fire of Hell! God is great - but he already knows that.

Islamic Jihad has two parts: 1) An internal war that starts within each Muslim himself to subdue or put down his own God given common sense of love of fellow man to numb one’s own natural human and God given conscience and repulsion to kill and hate one’s fellow humans. Once it consumes the human mind and heart Islamic Jihad wants to expand outside to spread itself like an anti-human disease and replicate itself endlessly; and 2) The second part of Jihad is slowly building up the trust of one’s enemies that it is a friend. Then when the moment is correct and people think they are friends and arer harmless it strikes like a snake hiding near one’s feet!

It is clear that Jesus never taught this. Jesus was a real man - what he said he meant and never lied. Jesus told us to pray and rely on God to punish such Satanic trickery and never give up or become like evil men and to trust in Him. We Christians know precisely what we are up against and know that God will defend his holy name. We know that God looks and behaves nothing at all like the hateful, and scorning “Allah” who does not forgive sins and will not even guarantee a martyr or even Mohammad entry to paradise if chooses not to. Islam is a vile lie that teaches that it is OK to misrepresent itself and lie or even pretend it is peaceful or something that it is not. Jesus taught that Satan is the father of all lies - so from Mohammad’s own teaching about his permission to deceive and trick unbelievers we know Islam is false. We Christians know it is from Satan.

Allah is a false god who’s name should be Satan. Hence Islam proclaims the blasphemy “Satan is great” (in his deceptions). But we Christians pray peacefully that “God is awesome and much greater! Who is like unto God?”

Only Islam is so errant that it can think to force it’s vile human behaviors and actions onto God and expect not to receive his wrath." Woe to Muslims who submit to Mohammad rather than God. Woe to Mohammad for bringing souls to Satan. Woe to Satan and all his minions who will burn for eternity and gnash their teeth when they see Christians standing as God’s Children and receiving God’s favor!

James

 

[hamba2han]

Things like what Hamba2han asked at the beginning of this thread tends to prove he has dismissed the event of Jesus’death just like Muhammad did in the Qor’an. He dismissed it on the ground that God cannot abandon those who love Him and live according to His commandments…

The reason I believe that Jesus (pbuh) did not die on the cross is because God says so in the Qur’an… simple as that.

And why do I believe that the Qur’an is the literal Speech of God?

Because there is a way to objectively test and ascertain the truth of the Qur’an… or any other scripture for that matter.

 

[exoflare]

Because there is a way to test and ascertain the truth of the Qur’an… or any other scripture for that matter.

Why do you keep posting a link in which the logic of your “test” was thoroughly debunked? I can’t believe you seriously want people to read that! For once we’re in agreement… I hope everyone who sees that link clicks on it and reads…

 

[hamba2han]

I hope everyone who sees that link clicks on it and reads…

Thanks… and read all of my posts for the WHOLE thread please, not just the beginning portion of it.

 

[exoflare]

Agreed. It’s a long thread, but please try and read the whole thing.

 

[hosemonkey]

Thanks… and read all of my posts for the WHOLE thread please, not just the beginning portion of it.

You believe in a false religion taught by a false prophet. Full stop. Your “religion” has brought only misery to the world and should be stamped out.

 

[Denis_Laplante]

The reason I believe that Jesus (pbuh) did not die on the cross is because God says so in the Qur’an… simple as that.

And why do I believe that the Qur’an is the literal Speech of God?

Because there is a way to objectively test and ascertain the truth of the Qur’an… or any other scripture for that matter.

Ah, yes! The Qoran says Jesus did not die and it’s the word of God, and the Gospel says (according to the 4 of them: Matthew, Mark, Luke and John) that Jesus died on the cross on the day of Preparation of the Sabbath and that on the first day of the following week he resurrected, and the Gospel is also the word of God. And there were angels of God involved in the telling of Jesus’ resurrection, too… And the whole Bible is the Word of God, too!
The Bible has remained the same, and so has the Gospels and the rest of the New Testament, even though it was said by some that they were corrupted along the way… (On what grounds, if I may ask???)
So, how is it that there is a contradiction on this central point of Revelation… because Jesus’ crucifixion has not just biblically, but also historically happened, whether the Muslims like it or not! Just like Muhammad died, whether Omar liked it or not! He did not accept it at first.
God has His plan, and we are not able to understand the whole of it. I don’t think that the Muslims pretend to know the whole of God’s actual plan and fully understand it, do they? God surprised even His own faithful many times along the way, didn’t He? Who can tell God how He should be God? Let Him be Him!!!

 

[inJESUS]

The reason I believe that Jesus (pbuh) did not die on the cross is because God says so in the Qur’an… simple as that.

actually Allah said so in gnostic scriptures. What you find in Quran was written exactly the same by Gnostics…but if you understand what Gnostics teach, you’ll be surprised that Quran does NOT deny Jesus’ crucifixion and those who are “in doubt”, as Quran says, are ironically the Muslims because some believe He was crucified (correct), some say He was substituted by someone else (absurd) and some believe He was crucified but did not die (more absurd) so basically Muslims are the one in doubt, not Christians nor Jews nor history.

Because there is a way to objectively test and ascertain

then read what your forfathers the Gnostics wrote and you\ll be amazed as to who Allah really is.

 

[Joyousguard]

The reason I believe that Jesus (pbuh) did not die on the cross is because God says so in the Qur’an… simple as that.

And why do I believe that the Qur’an is the literal Speech of God?

Because there is a way to objectively test and ascertain the truth of the Qur’an… or any other scripture for that matter.

Look, I realize that your by yourself here with very little backup in the form of other posters to at least help support your position. I’m sorry for that, but any of your freinds and Muslim bretheren are welcome to post on this forum and it does help to have many other people who believe as you do to look over what has been said and give their own personally perspective.

That having been said: I will be quite honest with you. I like many others here are biased towards Christainity because we are biased in favor of the truth. However, all the arguments you have presented have in all honesty been crushed repeatedly and do not pass a logical or reasonable assesment of being valid.

When numerous posts have proven:

1. Christ did not advocate Jihad nor did He or His disciples particpate in anything remotely resembling a violent rebellion.
2. Islam is supposedly a religon of peace but was spread by force and murder.
3. Mohhamed never performed any miracles but claimed the Koran itself was a miracle which is cicular reasoning and thus invalid.

4.Further Islam scholars attribute miracles to Muhhamed when the Koran itself said he never performed any. Both can not be correct.

1. (This one is the most harsh and also the most true) Islam was founded by a murderer, pedophile, polygamist who beheaded, tortured and forced people to convert to Islam. Jim Jones, Charles Manson and Saddam Husein come to mind.

Why do Muslims follow a murderer, pedophile, polygamist? Couldn’t God have chosen a more suitable “prophet” for founding Islam then a man such as mohhamed?

Sorry, its a bit harsh but I am racking my brain to understand how this man mohhamed with what he did could have been taken seriously then and still followed now.

 

[inJESUS]

Sorry, its a bit harsh but I am racking my brain to understand how this man mohhamed with what he did could have been taken seriously then and still followed now.

moral relativism maybe? or its a matter of personal conviction…same applies to all kind of self-proclaimed prophets including smith or any other…what makes the followers of muhammad different than the followers of smith? both were “visited” by angel Gabriel and booom they create their own religion and their own books and get millions of followers…

 

[Denis_Laplante]

If there is any such thing as a call from Jesus to Jihad, it’s the following: " Change your ways (or: Repent), and believe in the Gospel"; “If you want to be a disciple of mine, deny yourself, pick up your cross and follow me” " take my yoke upon you, for my yoke is easy and my burden is light".
This implies unselfish love, “to love God with all your heart, soul and might” to “love your neighbour as yourself”, to “forgive and bless your ennemies”… Just in these lies quite a program for our lives, doesn’t it? This is our Christian Jihad, very worthwhile…
God (Allah for the Arabs) bless you all!

 

[Joyousguard]

moral relativism maybe? or its a matter of personal conviction…same applies to all kind of self-proclaimed prophets including smith or any other…what makes the followers of muhammad different than the followers of smith? both were “visited” by angel Gabriel and booom they create their own religion and their own books and get millions of followers…

It’s funny how Mormonism has a very similiar instance of texts being “destroyed” as does Islam but that is off the topic.

It always astonishes me how susceptible people are to believe anything.

Mohhamed as a murderer and polygamist are almsot glossed over by Islam. Thats like talking about how great Hitler was but paving over WWII the Holocaust and the fact that he was a lousy painter.

I could paint a fantastic portrait of Nazi germany but that doesn’t change the fact that it was an evil empire founded on the ideals of a murderer and likely sociopath. Islamic apologists with their propoganda would put Josepgh Gerbels to shame

 

[CentralFLJames]

Sorry, its a bit harsh but I am racking my brain to understand how this man mohammed with what he did could have been taken seriously then and still followed now.

Its very easy to understand actually. Mohammad used the same mechanisms that all corrupt rulers and kings have always used. Fear, greed and promises of wealth, power, sex, food, privileges etc. Mohammad and his men became wealthy beyond imagine by raiding other villages, tribes and caravans. Mohammad personally led at least 28 attacks and battle campaigns and unmercifully slaughtered many men and took their goods, their wives and children. He gave his most loyal men the women and children for rewards (sex slaves - both sexes of children). He put in place a natural human hiearchy of greed and power that he gave to his closest men and of course his family (wives - especially Aisha) to buy favor and allegiance. At least 98% of his original men were nothing but common thieves, uneducated and highly superstitious (remember these were all originally worshipers of other false gods). After he died the remaining men all reformed the “gang” under new leadership and then bought more intelligent men who could read and write to expand the "gang’ and turn it into a nation of outlaws and marauders.

Islam always needs a victim to spoil and plunder. By its nature is must expand or it falls onto itself to victimized its own.

The lie of Islam was visibly exposed as fraudulent in a profound way after Mohammad died. After he dies it immediately fractured into the ever-warring Sunni and Shia subsects. These two sects will operate to murder each other until Satan steps in as a Mahdi to reunite them under one caliphate so it can victimize Christians, Jews and pagans and gain more souls for Satan. When this happens there will be a terrible chastisement and Jesus will personally return to toss the false prophet and Satan alive into hell with all his followers.

We are watching this all take place in our lifetimes. Islam is part of God’s plan to reveal his justice, his mercy and save a remnant of humanity to Himself. But most Islamics are too ignorant to know that they are being used by Satan. Satan in his pride is as ignorant that God is using Satan to bring glory to Himself as well as final justice and to repopulate heaven with perfected human souls to replace the fallen angels.

James

 

[Joyousguard]

Its very easy to understand actually. Mohammad used the same mechanisms that all corrupt rulers and kings have always used. Fear, greed and promises of wealth, power, sex, food, privileges etc. Mohammad and his men became wealthy beyond imagine by raiding other villages, tribes and caravans. Mohammad personally led at least 28 attacks and battle campaigns and unmercifully slaughtered many men and took their goods, their wives and children. He gave his most loyal men the women and children for rewards (sex slaves - both sexes of children). He put in place a natural human hiearchy of greed and power that he gave to his closest men and of course his family (wives - especially Aisha) to buy favor and allegiance. At least 98% of his original men were nothing but common thieves, uneducated and highly superstitious (remember these were all originally worshipers of other false gods). After he died the remaining men all reformed the “gang” under new leadership and then bought more intelligent men who could read and write to expand the "gang’ and turn it into a nation of outlaws and marauders.

Islam always needs a victim to spoil and plunder. By its nature is must expand or it falls onto itself to victimized its own.

The lie of Islam was visibly exposed as fraudulent in a profound way after Mohammad died. After he dies it immediately fractured into the ever-warring Sunni and Shia subsects. These two sects will operate to murder each other until Satan steps in as a Mahdi to reunite them under one caliphate so it can victimize Christians, Jews and pagans and gain more souls for Satan. When this happens there will be a terrible chastisement and Jesus will personally return to toss the false prophet and Satan alive into hell with all his followers.

We are watching this all take place in our lifetimes. Islam is part of God’s plan to reveal his justice, his mercy and save a remnant of humanity to Himself. But most Islamics are too ignorant to know that they are being used by Satan. Satan in his pride is as ignorant that God is using Satan to bring glory to Himself as well as final justice and to repopulate heaven with perfected human souls to replace the fallen angels.

James

I did make mention of the similarities bewteen the USSR and Islam continuing to need an outward agressor to solidify their core. Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world. I wonder what will happen when the percieved agressor becomes the very country many Muslims live in when they themselves are no longer such a small minority.

 

[CentralFLJames]

I did make mention of the similarities bewteen the USSR and Islam continuing to need an outward agressor to solidify their core. Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world. I wonder what will happen when the percieved agressor becomes the very country many Muslims live in when they themselves are no longer such a small minority.

It is not a numbers game for God - He wants quality. I am not concerned in the least about Islams “apparent” growth. It’s not a loyal base of Muslims in many regions of the world. Rather its only because its the only “club” to join. Many many Muslims are false converts to Islam only because is is absolutely necessary to publicly call oneself Muslim if one wants to be able to live, work and be able to eat and have a family and not be subject to violence.

There is no way Islam can keep a loyal following since it even violates a natural human desire to love and get along with our fellow man (which comes unadulterated from God at birth). Given a true FREE CHOICE where there are no social pressures, no threats to income (plenty of jobs), no fears of reprisals etc. I am confident that at least 60-70% of existing Muslims would choose Christianity over Islam. Christianity just makes a lot more sense and naturally appeals to the “good” inside every human being. Islam does not. It is a fear based belief. Islam is not only unnatural to human conscience it is inherently preaching a “slave” relationship to God as well. God the Father of Christianity calls us to be “friends” and even His children - nothing on the planet has that promise or appeal.

What a complete difference between the two! Where Islam has fear, obedience and no guarantee of forgiveness Christianity has love and mercy and not only forgiveness but permits the worst sinner to repent and become as a child of God!

But the only way this hypothetical scenario of conversion can occur is if Christians are permitted to teach Muslims without fear of being imprisoned. But this will not be voluntarily permitted since Muslim leaders are no different than the corrupt Jewish leaders were who turned Jesus over to Crucifixion. Muslim leaders are deathly afraid that Christianity is easier to sell and more appealing than Islam and will put them out of business and remove them from power and privilege. God will do it for us - just watch.

When Islam spreads and becomes the majority we will see the same pattern we have always seen in history. God manifests His favor on His own by showing how a much smaller group of devout believers will always prevail over Satan and his much larger minions (e.g. the David and Goliath imagery). We see the same patterns in history time and time again - yet humanity never learns. This time I think the prophetic evidence is that God will step in Himself to put down Islam (and all false religions) since this time in history it is different. With Islam we have a people and a federations of nations killing in God’s name while claiming to be God’s people - when they clearly are not. If God would destroy Sodom & Gomorrah for perversions against its own people and if God will flood the earth in a baptism of repentance (Noah) to restore human dignity to a sinful earth He will surely step in to utterly pulverize any nation or peoples who seek to murder in His name! I can’t imagine the extent of God’s wrath at what He will hammer Islam with for trying to soil His divine character with their hateful acts of murder and contempt. I said it before and again, if Islam does not repent very soon it is utterly doomed. Unfortunately the rest of us are going to have to suffer too when God says “ENOUGH!” - but at least we know we go to Him in paradise and not to Satan for eternity.

James

 

[Denis_Laplante]

I did make mention of the similarities bewteen the USSR and Islam continuing to need an outward agressor to solidify their core. Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world. I wonder what will happen when the percieved agressor becomes the very country many Muslims live in when they themselves are no longer such a small minority.

You seem to imply that Muslims are intrisecally bad… This seems to me very exagerated. Among Muslims too there are many people more interested in doing good things than in threatening people for the so-called sake of Allah!
I’m sure that many Muslims, if they read this, will be saddened at least… Don’t generalise, please!!

 

[Special_Ed]

Summary of the Muslim Jesus.

Now let’s review the various defining characteristics and actions of the Muslim Jesus upon his return to the earth:

1. Jesus is said to return to the earth in the last-days near a mosque in Damascus.
2. He will arrive at a time when the Mahdi and his army will be preparing to pray.
3. He will be offered to lead the prayer by the Mahdi, but will decline in direct deference to the Mahdi who Jesus declares to be the leader of the Muslims.
4. He will then pray behind the Mahdi as a subordinate.
5. He will be a faithful Muslim
6. He will make pilgrimage to Mecca.
7. He will visit Muhammad’s grave, and salute Muhammad, whereby Muhammad will return the salute from the grave.
8. He will destroy Christianity.
9. He will repeal the jizyah tax thus causing the only option for Jews and Christians to convert to Islam or die.
10. He will establish Islamic Shari’ah (Law) throughout the entire earth.
11. He will kill the Antichrist and his followers made up largely of Jews and women.
12. He will remain on the earth for roughly forty years, during which time he will marry, have children and then die.

As we have clearly seen, the Muslim Jesus, in both his nature and actions is far different than the biblical Jesus. Rather than coming to reign as King and Messiah over all the earth from Jerusalem, Jesus instead comes to convert the world to Islam or kill those who refuse to do so. Instead of coming to save and deliver faithful Christians and Jews, he comes instead to kill and slaughter them. We will discuss a bit more about what the Bible has to say about the return of Jesus in a later chapter.

 

[Special_Ed]

Comparing the False Prophet and the Muslim Jesus

Amazingly, the similarities between the biblical narratives of the end-times and the Islamic narratives do not end with the Antichrist and the Mahdi. If it were so, then it might be easier to dismiss the many similarities as mere coincidence. The parallels however, do not stop with the Antichrist and the Mahdi**, but extend again quite clearly, into the person of the man biblically known as the False Prophet and the man known in Islam as Isa al-Masih – Jesus the Messiah. **

The specific plan of Satan down through the ages is articulated clearly in the Bible. The Bible teaches that Satan will raise up not one, but two men as his agents in the earth to lure men away from the worship of The One True God.
The first man that Satan will use is the Antichrist. We have already examined his role in chapter five.
The second man is known biblically as the False Prophet. We will examine his role next…

**The Unholy Partnership Of The Antichrist And The False Prophet **

The nature of the relationship of the biblical False Prophet to the Antichrist is one of a partner in crime so to speak. It is only in the final book of the Bible that we learn about the False Prophet. The Apostle John was the first and only author of Scripture that received revelation about this assistant to the Antichrist. In Revelation chapter thirteen, John introduces us to the man described as “another beast” but spoken of later in Revelation as the False Prophet:

(Revelation 13:11-14)

From this passage, we can determine a few things about the False Prophet. Firstly he is called a beast - he is, like the Antichrist, a man possessed by Satan. He is another human pawn of the Dragon, exercising the will of the Dragon on the earth. But instead of ten horns, he only has two. The horns speak of authority. The power and authority of the False Prophet is clear, but it is not nearly equal to that of the Antichrist who is said to have ten horns.

We also see that the False Prophet is a miracle worker. Among the many miracles he is said to work, one is mentioned specifically: He is said to cause fire to come down from the sky. The False Prophet’s primary reason for performing miraculous signs is to cause the inhabitants of the earth to follow and even to worship the Antichrist. The two are pictured as a team, a partnership with one common goal - deception, seduction and a luring away of anyone who worships Yahweh, the God of the Bible.

The Unholy Partnership Of The Mahdi And The Muslim Jesus

Likewise in the Islamic narrative of the last-days, we do not find a lone character who is coming to rescue the world, but instead we find a team. We find both the Mahdi and the Muslim Jesus. And as in the case of the Antichrist and the False Prophet, we find that one is clearly filling a supporting role while the other is the leader. While the Mahdi is clearly described as being, “the Viceregent (Caliph) of Allah,” 1 Jesus is described as being one who will “espouse the cause of the Mahdi” 3 and “follow him.” 2 The partnership between the Mahdi and Jesus is one of the leader and his subordinate. And as we have already seen, and will continue to see, the partnership of the Mahdi and Jesus is indeed an unholy partnership - particularly if you are not a Muslim and have no intention of becoming one. If this is the case, then you are marked for death - plain and simple. The Muslim Jesus is a twisted version of the biblical Jesus who said:

For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me. And this is the will of him who sent me; that I shall lose none of all that he has given me, but raise them up at the last day. For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day." John 6:38-40

Instead of espousing the “cause” of the Father, the Muslim Jesus espouses the cause of the Mahdi. Instead of saving those followers of His whom the Father has placed under his oversight, the Muslim Jesus instead slaughters those who remain faithful to the words of Jesus as found in the Bible. The Muslim Jesus is not the tender yet strong shepherd of the gospels, but rather The Wolf himself in the shepherd’s clothing.

 

[Special_Ed]

For hamba2han,

muslimjourneytohope.com/watch.asp