The call to 'jihad' by Prophet Jesus (pbuh)

[hamba2han]

The following is from another thread as the subject of Jesus (pbuh) calling his followers to ‘jihad’ is not really related to the topic of that thread:

Nowhere in the Bible does Jesus (pbuh) unequivocally says that he is God and then proceeds to command his followers to worship him.

On the other hand, the Bible does indeed record that he unequivocally says the following:

Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. … Matthew 10:34

Why then do Christians insist on believing that Jesus is God i.e. something that Jesus himself NEVER said or emphasized throughout his ministry… and yet they refuse to believe that he came not to send peace on earth i.e. something which he did indeed say very clearly and categorically as recorded in Matthew 10:34??

If Christians do believe that salvation can only be obtained by believing in Jesus Christ, then they certainly have a most bizarre way of showing it.

This is akin to someone who is struggling to stay afloat in the ocean and he grasps at a straw i.e. the belief that Jesus is God, in attempting to save himself from drowning… but yet he ignores the lifebuoy i.e. the belief in the things that Jesus actually says in the Bible, which has been thrown right in front of him in the water.

Where is the sword used by Jesus?
did He ever have a sword?

At the Table in the Upper-room where Jesus and his disciples were having the “Last Supper”, he prepares the disciples for the impending showdown with those who wanted to harm them.

"When I sent you without purse, and scrip, and shoes, lacked ye anything?" And they said, “Nothing” Then said he unto them, “But now, he that hath no purse, let him take it, and likewise his bag; and he that hath no SWORD, let him sell his garment and buy one!” … Luke 22:35-36

". . . Lord, behold, here are two SWORDS." And he said unto them, “It is enough” … Luke 22:38

This is a clear and obvious preparation for ‘Jihad’ by Jesus (pbuh) and his disciples.

"And, behold, one of those who were with Jesus stretched out his hand, and drew his SWORD, and struck a servant of the high priests, and cut off his ear." … Matthew 26:51

The Christian missionary, so as to retain the impression of the “meek and gentle Jesus”, “the Prince of Peace”, pleads that the SWORDS were spiritual! If the swords were spiritual, then the “garments” must also be spiritual. If the disciples of Jesus were to sell their SPIRITUAL garments to buy SPIRITUAL swords, in that case they would all become SPIRITUALLY naked!Furthermore, one does not lop off peoples physical ears with spiritual swords.

 

[RebeccaJ]

You have your interpretation of the Matthew 10:34 quote backwards. If you read all in that chapter before it, you will see that Jesus is telling the disciples that because of what they will teach, the sword will be turned against those who believe them. After that passage, Jesus goes on to tell them that if people don’t follow his teachings out of fear of that sword, or losing the love of family, then that person is not worthy of Him.

The Matthew 26:51, again you need to read the whole chapter. Jesus tells the person with the sword to put it back in the sheath, and said “all who take the sword shall perish by the sword”. And goes on to say that He could call on the Father at any time and legions of angels would come to His aid.

With Luke, you have done what the disciples themselves did. You have taken the figurative speech literally. Christ is telling them that they must be prepared for the opposition they face, spiritually, in His name. He is in no way telling them to take up the sword. When the disciples take Him literally, and point out that they have two swords, He cuts them off abruptly, saying it is “enough”. Who would believe that two swords would be enough against all of the opposition that Christ knew they would face? It isn’t the sword itself that prepares a Christian, it is Christ.

As for Jesus declaring Himself God, numerous threads are around on this very topic.

 

[swariffin]

Dear Hambah2an,

When Montalban, Manny and others discuss about your Jihad verses in the Quran, your side denied the interpretation. Your side claimed that It was a misinterpretation of what it was literally written in the Quran. And now, you take the bible, interpret it literally just like a lawyer reading a legal document (geez, I always say the same thing over and over again). You guys are doing the same thing as you, yourself consider us wrong.

Let me tell you my brother, reading a holy book verses is not the same thing as reading a legal document. Even we believe that Jesus will judge the living and the dead, it does not mean that Jesus will take the earthly lawyer way of doing things. Basically, we the Catholics believe that the highest authority of interpreting the bible verses is the magisterium which was guided by the Holy Spirit, not an ordinary people claiming to receive divine guidance, let alone from other people from another religion. It does not mean that any Catholic is incapable of making interpretations, though. It just says that the ultimate interpretations must be in accordance with the magisterium. That is why, we are in unity, i.e Catholic.

 

[hopelessrom_grl]

do you even know what Jilhad really means?..it’s Holy War…it’s killing for the sake of religion by Islam…what do you think Al-Queada is doing?..they are sane people, who are practising TRUE Islam…I can quote you lots of verses from the Quran that encourage this

Jesus never tells anyone to kill…but Muhamad is a killer

 

[Reuben_J]

The OP might be bringing this up in countering some Christians’ assertion that the Islamic Jihad is violence in nature. This need to be answered intelligently because he has rightly refers to Jesus mentioning the sword.

He may be telling us, look if you want to interpret the Quran literally, we can do the same for your Bible. What’s the different between the peaceful Mohammad and the peaceful Jesus when it comes to defending the faith? Both mentioned the swords and yet both also preached about peace.

He just needs to create that little doubt and if he is able to do that, it serves his purpose. On the other hand, lots of Islamic claims have been debunked here. If we can convince him with reasonable explanation on some of the vague Biblical verses he brought up, who knows, he may convert to Catholicism.

 

[MH84]

Hamba2han, do your jihading elsewhere. Sorry to say this but you are so negative towards Christians and annoying.

 

[LDNCatholic]

He does have a very good counterpoint to those who believe Christianity is completely pacifistic. Thanks for that Hamba

God Bless

Peter

 

[dolphinlove]

Ham,
Before starting another attack on Christianity, why not go back and answer questions you missed on other threads?
Debunking the same claims over again does get very boring!

 

[Charlie_Zeaiter]

…Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. … Matthew 10:34

This has been discussed on different threads where Catholic pro-gunners use this verse to justify their cause.

But I think the sword is a metaphor, as described by St Paul because “it cuts all the way through, to where soul and spirit meet” (see Hebrews 4:12 and Ephesians 6:1).

For more information, visit the following site:
professingprofessor.blogspot.com/2006/03/sword-talk.html

…Why then do Christians insist on believing that Jesus is God i.e. something that Jesus himself NEVER said or emphasized throughout his ministry…

Matthew (11:27) and Luke (10:22) give us one phrase: “No one knows the Son but the Father; and no one knows the Father but the Son.” Here are two persons put on one same level. “I and the Father are one” (Jn 10:30). They are two persons, yet one.

I think you need to do some research of God’s divine nature. And hopefully you’ll see that Jesus possesses that same divine nature. It is infinite, so it can not be a copy or a part or shared. Jesus possesses the divine nature totally. Therefore Jesus is God.

But I realise this is way too deep for you, but if you want to know more, read “Theology for Beginners” by Frank Sheed.

…". . . Lord, behold, here are two SWORDS." And he said unto them, “It is enough” … Luke 22:38…

“It is enough” is a dismissal of the subject, not a warrant for their use. That was rebuked when Peter resorted to one (Matt. 26:52–54).

This is the same intention that God had in his discussion with Moses; “That’s enough! Don’t mention this again!” (Deuteronony 3:26)

And for more info, visit the following Web site:
ccel.org/j/johnson_bw/pnt/PNT03-22.HTM

…This is a clear and obvious preparation for ‘Jihad’ by Jesus (pbuh) and his disciples. …

It’s only clear if you’re a muslim.

 

[Reuben_J]

I did explain Mt 10:34 in the other thread, taken from the NIV study Bible, the meaning we all know.

Maybe we should not deny the prophetic call of “Jihad” by Jesus. He had foreseen that there will be conflict as a result of Christ’s coming - between Christ and the antichrist, between light and darkness, between Christ’s children and the devil’s children. Even between members of the same family will not be spared of this conflict.

The question is, what kind of a conflict it will be, considering Jesus mentioned his coming is likened to a sword? By the way, it is not a good idea to tell a Muslim what St. Paul said.

I can only say at this juncture were what believing Christians experienced. They experienced the sword at the hands of their persecutors and they did not shy away from what they believed. At some point in time in a Christian’s life, the sword may be real, either literally or figuratively. The saints both experienced these swords; dying to the self or even physically or they may be used against enemies.

 

[MH84]

I did explain Mt 10:34 in the other thread, taken from the NIV study Bible, the meaning we all know.

Maybe we should not deny the prophetic call of “Jihad” by Jesus. He had foreseen that there will be conflict as a result of Christ’s coming - between Christ and the antichrist, between light and darkness, between Christ’s children and the devil’s children. Even between members of the same family will not be spared of this conflict.

The question is, what kind of a conflict it will be, considering Jesus mentioned his coming is likened to a sword? By the way, it is not a good idea to tell a Muslim what St. Paul said.

I can only say at this juncture were what believing Christians experienced. They experienced the sword at the hands of their persecutors and they did not shy away from what they believed. At some point in time in a Christian’s life, the sword may be real, either literally or figuratively. The saints both experienced these swords; dying to the self or even physically or they may be used against enemies.

I agree that there is definately a distinction between good and bad, darkness and light. The saints are a testiment to that. However, how can Christians accept a jihad when we are sinners as well. I know from myself, how unChristian I can be. I dont want to be part of the dark, but I am not always disciplined to be called a light of the world.

Therefore, I think a lot of the battles are between ourselves and sin, with God waiting to help and guide us.

What I am trying to say is that: who are the good people and who are the bad people? There is no clear line. You just can’t say its Christians v the world. Non-Christians are often better people than those who are or call themselves Christian.

Christainity in itself is completely good though.

 

[MH84]

I did explain Mt 10:34 in the other thread, taken from the NIV study Bible, the meaning we all know.

Maybe we should not deny the prophetic call of “Jihad” by Jesus. He had foreseen that there will be conflict as a result of Christ’s coming - between Christ and the antichrist, between light and darkness, between Christ’s children and the devil’s children. Even between members of the same family will not be spared of this conflict.

The question is, what kind of a conflict it will be, considering Jesus mentioned his coming is likened to a sword? By the way, it is not a good idea to tell a Muslim what St. Paul said.

I can only say at this juncture were what believing Christians experienced. They experienced the sword at the hands of their persecutors and they did not shy away from what they believed. At some point in time in a Christian’s life, the sword may be real, either literally or figuratively. The saints both experienced these swords; dying to the self or even physically or they may be used against enemies.

I agree that there is definately a distinction between good and bad, darkness and light. The saints are a testiment to that. However, how can Christians accept a jihad when we are sinners as well. I know from myself, how unChristian I can be. I dont want to be part of the dark, but I am not always disciplined to be called a light of the world.

Therefore, I think a lot of the battles are between ourselves and sin, with God waiting to help and guide us.

What I am trying to say is that: who are the good people and who are the bad people? There is no clear line. You just can’t say its Christians v the world. Non-Christians are often better people than those who are or call themselves Christian.

Proper Christianity (Catholicism) ie the Church, is in itself completely good though, because God will always be with it.

 

[Reuben_J]

You are right there.

I think this guy (OP) is trying to imply that Christianity does has a kind of Jihad. Remember that Islamic defintion of a Jihad is essentially an inner struggle that a Muslim must try to overcome.

We can tell him we do have struggles to overcome too, sometimes these are not for us to decide or we are not in a position to decide, especially if persecution is imposed on us. We don’t go around killing people who don’t agree with us. But what about those who want to kill us, to subjugate us, to enslave our country because of our belief? Would our action be any different from that of the Muslims?

Honestly, I don’t see much difference here than with the Islamic position. Only we don’t call it a Jihad.

 

[Jesusisgod]

Humbug, I pity you. Really.

The bible says this to you: ‘The wisdom of the prudent is to give thought to their ways, but the folly of fools is deception.’

You have been deceived all your life and now you seek to deceive others like you. Anyone who is dumb enough to embrace a pedophile (who subsequently received poison as his reward leading to his death after cursing his own sons to their deaths in their infancies) as his prophet cannot be worth anybody’s effort. Your quotation of the holy scripture sickens me to the bones.

Jihad is not found anywhere in the biblical scripture. Your vain attempts to taint the scripture with your mind of darkness will only reap you eternal condemnation.

Jesus says in Luke 16:16 - The Law and the Prophets were until John (the baptist). This quote itself totally nullifies anybody as a prophet after John’s death. Muhammad is a fake.

Try telling us why muhammad is your greatest prophet when Jesus had a miraculous birth, impeccable character and was brought up to heaven as believed even by the muslims, BUT in contrast, muhammad was born to dead parents after his birth, killed men and raped women, committed pedophilia and is today still rotting in Medina.

How does muhammad’s inferior birth, inferior life and inferior death make him the greatest ??? How ???

 

[hamba2han]

There are already too many different subjects being brought up in this thread and I think it would be best for me to address them one subject at a time.

And the first matter is – Why should Jesus (pbuh) say that two swords are “enough” and not simply order his disciples to put the swords away if it was true that he was not preparing for battle?

The answer is that he was indeed preparing for it and the reason why two swords were enough is because he was not contemplating a battle against the legions of Rome but rather, since Judas was in league with the Temple authorities, Jesus was expecting a clandestine, underhand attempt by the Jewish oligarchy to seize him.

It would be a question of Jews against Jews and because Jesus had with him Peter (the Rock) and John and James (the sons of Thunder) together with the other eight, each vying with one another to go to prison for him and to die for him, he was understandably confident that just two swords would be enough for him and his disciples to overcome their enemies.

Armed with sticks and stones, and the swords, and fortified with the spirit of self-sacrifice which they had avowed for their Master, this was what this ‘jihad’ was about.

However, during the night, the disciples were literally caught napping and the enemy suceeded in overpowering them.

Jesus had not anticipated Roman soldiers. Realising that the tables were turned against his misconceived strategy, he then advises his disciples:

". . . Put up again thy sword into its place; for all they that TAKE THE SWORD shall PERISH WITH THE SWORD." … Matthew 26:52

The situation changes, so the strategy must also change. Jesus had sense enough to realise that against trained and well-equipped Roman soldiers it would be suicidal for his sleepy warriors to offer even a pretence of resistance.

Why don’t Christians give Jesus (pbuh) credit for this simple common-sense? Because they have been programmed for a period of two thousand years that Jesus, the “lamb”, the “prince of peace”, couldn’t harm a fly. They overlook the other side of his nature which demanded blood and fire! They forget his instructions to his soldiers regarding those of his enemies who would not like him to rule over them, to bring them forth:

. . . and SLAY them before me." … Luke 19:27

"Think NOT that I am come to send PEACE on earth; I. came NOT to send PEACE, but a SWORD." … Matthew 10:34

"I am come to send FIRE on the earth; and what will I, if it be already kindled?
Suppose ye that I am come to give PEACE on earth? I tell you, NAY; but rather DIVISION." … Luke 12:49 & 51

And so then, Prophet Jesus (pbuh) like Prophet Moses (pbuh) and all the other Prophets (pbut) before him was a true “jihadist” in every sense of the word… and Muslims have absolutely no need whatsoever to overlook this aspect of his character in order to wholeheartedly accept him as one of the mightiest Messengers of Allah.

 

[dessert]

Jesus Christ’s weapons against evil was His words, or truth, and he said they cut like a two edged sword because truth does.

He fought against their own ignorance and denial and beliefs in lies.

He was not fighting a physical war because our bodies will die anyways it is the soul that lives forever. In the spiritual reallm the battle has already been won anyhoo. There is victory in the ressurrection.

 

[CalmDownWisWins]

…

Why then do Christians insist on believing that Jesus is God i.e. something that Jesus himself NEVER said or emphasized throughout his ministry… and yet they refuse to believe that he came not to send peace on earth i.e. something which he did indeed say very clearly and categorically as recorded in Matthew 10:34??

Jesus DID say that He was God, contrary to your belief.

Jesus did NOT come to create short term “peace” on earth, but long term REAL peace on earth.

The moslem mind, in it’s cultivated materialism, starts from the proposition that God is a hyper-simplistic inscrutible monad who commands that his followers slay (either by persuasion or, when necessary, deadly force) all those not following this (incomplete) conception of God.

Since coercion (moslem), not persuasion (Christian), is the ultimate acceptable “tool” to use to “pacify” the earth, all other subsequent ethical and moral behaviors are “justified” for the moslem, as we’ve experienced through history.

If Christians do believe that salvation can only be obtained by believing in Jesus Christ, then they certainly have a most bizarre way of showing it.

…

Catholics believe that you must ACT and not just BELIEVE.

Those who act with “unjust” violence (as defined by the Magisterium) are not acting as Christians, and their sin of scandal will come down on them hard when thier time comes.

The simple fact is that the moslem definition of “just use of force” is wrong, and the Catholic definition is truly correct in it’s justice.

The Christian “Jihad” uses Christian tools given by God, while the moslem “jihad” uses moslem “tools” given by “elsewhom”.

 

[CentralFLJames]

…
And so then, Prophet Jesus (pbuh) like Prophet Moses (pbuh) and all the other Prophets (pbut) before him was a true “jihadist” in every sense of the word…

Hamba2han - you are uttering absolutely the most ignorant and hateful tripe imaginable. This kind of parochial, and kindergarten level of childish thinking might work to recruit illiterate jihadists in a country or small town with low educational levels but it won’t work in any country or place where there are adults and mature intellects and rational minds. Be gone with this nonsense.

Your purpose here is not to learn the truth but to incite the only thing you can - hate. That is precisely what the devil does. This is the corrupt fruit that comes out of all things not of God and how we judge what is good and what is evil. There are no 72 virgins (or 72 raisins depending on Aramaic translation) to be won here nor in heaven. So why waste your time here? Seeking to propagate the kind of lie you do leads to the father of all lies - Satan himself. Be warned that you are personally in grave danger of falling into the pit of eternal torment. As a Christian it it my duty to warn even an enemy of that horrible consequence. No one wishes that punishment on even an enemy. But God is Just and will do what is consistent with his Justice if you persist.

You are being extremely disingenuous in omitting the full verses.

Consider the following:

My kingdom is not of this world. If it were, my servants would fight to prevent my arrest by the Jews. But now my kingdom is from another place. (John 18:36)

Read the entire context of Matthew 10:34 to understand the meaning of “sword” in the passages.

If Jesus meant warfare why would he say “take up the cross and follow him”? He clearly did not mean violence. Jesus consistently was a man of peace and of compassion. He healed and sacrificed and never ever so much as struck a single person in his life.

The meaning of “sword” in Jesus teaching is clear. It indicates that men of that time who followed Jesus would be in conflict with the old Jewish teachings in his original Jewish society. He is only warning to be ready for the division in families arising from those who had an interest in keeping and profiting from the old ways under the old archaic law that he came to simplify.

Also know that The Word of God is always symbolically called “God’s Sword”. God’s Holy Word is mighty and sharp since it is the eternal unchanging truth that slays false teachings of the Devil. The truth when unsheathed slays all lies. Christians fight with God’s truth and the spiritual power of God. This means that only God himself has the authority to Kill and he does so with His Holy Word. God gave Jesus as the living word of God “that became flesh” to teach us all of God’s Truth. Thus Jesus himself is “The Sword” of God that speaks the truth. Jesus comes to call and gather God’s true children who alone can hear God’s truth and word. Jesus’ entire life and spoken word slays and condemns the enemies of God with the sword of truth. Thus the great separation foretold from the beginning of time commences in Jesus. God’s word divides those committed to truth from those committed to lies. God separates the sheep from goats and the wheat from the weeds. God’s go to paradise and Satan’s go to Hell.

I am sorry to say this but the truth is, Jesus’ entire life was the exact opposite of what Mohammad would later try to do with the sword. Jesus, rather than appeal to earthly wealth and power and personal conquest over enemies through violence and subjugation ALWAYS sought to see the good in all men irrespective of race, nationality or ethnic tradition. Jesus sees all men as created by God and loved by God and called to be heavenly brothers and sisters. Thus, Jesus appealed to human love, compassion, and REASONABLE BEHAVIOR and scorned the opposites of hate, contempt and violence. He saw those pleasant behaviors as the very same graces that extended from God’s pure and good nature. But Jesus abhorred violence and deceit and lies as the nature that comes from the Devil. Jesus warned that there would be false prophets and anti-Christ’s coming after him who would preach the opposite of truth and the opposite of God’s nature (violence, hate, ignorance, intolerance etc.).

Christians know that God will defend his people - with the sword of truth.

Final word to you if you want the truth:
**Matthew 26:52: Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword. **

Thus, with this truth how can a man be “of God” arrogantly speak the lie of Satan that Jesus was preaching the violence of Jihad? The answer is you don’t have the truth within you. Be warned.

James

 

[inJESUS]

Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.

 

[inJESUS]

Well put James.