The call to 'jihad' by Prophet Jesus (pbuh)

[RebeccaJ]

Oh, come on, please don’t get me started on the punishment for apostasy as written in the Bible.

That is not my point! It’s all about fighting for you. I have no desire to fight with you.

What I was attempting to point out to you is the fact that if/when a Moslem joins Christianity, that person is put under the threat of death. THAT is the cross, the Jesus is referring to in the Mathew passage you keep quoting. The suffering of losing loved ones who once loved you but now hate you enough to take your life. Because of a choice to follow Christ.

It is Christ pointing out that those who follow him will suffer at the point of other’s swords, even their own family. Be they literal swords, like the Christians martyrs suffered, or those type of swords that can be more painful than death. Loved ones who hate you, mock you, despise you.

 

[CalmDownWisWins]

I Gnow.

If anyone has done even the most basic study of Islam its clear Mohammad either stole, purchased or was taught from the heretical scriptures. One of Mohammed’s verses even has a scriptural lineage that traces to false verses coming from a well known forgery in Italy. Mohammad was basically trying to take advantage of the division extending from the Arian heresy to recruit insincere Christians who only paid lip service to the faith (e.g. to gain, live and prosper economically from the blessings that came from peaceful trade in Christian regions without true conviction). That’s why he also included fragments of Jewish scripture since he wanted to recruit the Jews controlling Mecca and Medina into his invented religion. It’s clear that it was a human constructed religion that he invented as he went along to form a “club” of pirates bent on victimizing anyone who was not “in the club”. Essentially Islam is little more than a pirates code with an embedded moral teaching stolen from Christianity to keep the thieves from killing each other. It all fell apart when Mohammad died and the thieves fought among themselves as to who was to be the new leader. Hence the Shia and Sunni divisions that we have to this day. In the end there is never any honor among thieves and unless they all come to the truth of Christianity they will eventually kill themselves and a lot of other innocent people. It’s so easy to see how its going to all blow up some day soon.

James

Ding ding ding. We have a winner!

But, many moslems are really very good people who are, thank God, blissfully ignorant of what you’ve “exposed”.

If they DID get educated, then we’d have an even larger problem than we have now, or they’d become Christians. But which way the majority would go is a HUGE gamble.

…which eventually will happen, as you said in your ending sentences above.

 

[ralphinal]

What a wonderful set of posts. Let me point out that the sword shown by Hamba would have been unknown by Christ. It is a later model, designed to use against armored men. The Roman short sword would have been more common, and it’s hand guard would not look quite like that. The sword used by those indiginous to that area would have been more curved, closer to a scimitar, and one edged. It is one reason that Paul used the double edged comparison: it is not a native concept and it is more powerful. In other words, the Truth of Christ is not something that we could have gotten to on our own and it is the most life changing thing we can encounter.

 

[CentralFLJames]

Ding ding ding. We have a winner!

But, many moslems are really very good people who are, thank God, blissfully ignorant of what you’ve “exposed”.

If they DID get educated, then we’d have an even larger problem than we have now, or they’d become Christians. But which way the majority would go is a HUGE gamble.

…which eventually will happen, as you said in your ending sentences above.

This is what is so profoundly sad to me. These Arab people used to have rational minds and had reasonable moral codes. All humans while alive have the good spark of God in them or they would have no life. Thus, while there is life there is always hope.

But the Islamic fundamentalists got in control early in the history of Islam and murdered all the intellectuals. The intellectuals held all the original Greek philosophical teachings and rational thought processes and actually had a rational conscience that could be reasoned with. This is harder and harder to find anymore. Fear of persecution by fundamentalists suppresses intelligent dialog among educated Muslims. None can take a critical examination of their beliefs without risking severe punishment, cultural alienation and death.

If the Islamic fundamentalists had not murdered most of these originally intelligent Arabic men I think eventually “reason” would have prevailed. That may have permitted a slow revelation to bend the religion toward Christianity and merged it in as a new branch. But it would appear that that is not possible anymore since its now too polarized by hate and lies. Also, I don’t think God wants to compromising Jesus’ teachings simply to make it look more socially appealing to current Arabic customs, folklore and myths.

But now we/humanity are out of time - by human standards. It takes a few generations to slowly change errors of the magnitude of Islam’s peacefully without massive bloodshed and revolution. It’s just not within humanities ability to change fundamental core identities of “self” without conflict and fighting. Only a miracle of God can do what needs to happen very soon to keep the peace.

I can empathize with Muslims - I pray for them. They are trapped by a lie they did not start. I think even some of the educated Islamic Clerics know the real truth now about Mohammad. But they know the lie has gone too far now to stop without causing massive conflict and a train wreck disaster. But we are almost out of time. The lunatics in Iran and so on are trying to provoke a test of God to force God to intervene and sort it all out and prove Islam (Shia version) is the answer! It’s insanity. The clock is ticking as they seek to build a nuclear device so they can extort the entire region to bend to them. Its an exceedingly dangerous situation.

So humanity no longer has enough time for the human process of “reason” and “education” to take hold. At best we have 5-10 years - but probably only 3-4 before something decisive needs to happen at a secular level in the world. People can not live with the threat of war over their heads and hold that level of anxiety and still remain rational and sane. Something will snap if things to not change radically. Pray your rosaries daily.

The good news is I know God will NEVER let humans force his hand nor permit Him to walk to the drum beat of mere mortal men. I am confident that God will either severely punish the largest threats through massive natural calamity or will simply let them destroy themselves. There are too many souls at stake for God to let the error of Islam take out nearly the entire Abraham lineage through Ishmael. I am anticipating that God will provide a final act of mercy to give time for the Arabs to come to God before his chastisement. But there is no doubt a chastisement from God still coming - perhaps very soon. But God always warns before he punishes. But this time the travesties are so severe that he may only give a very short time before He looses his Justice.

We Catholics need to keep in mind that we need to always keep ourselves in a state of grace. We can expect to share both in Christ’s suffering as well as His glory. There is absolutely nothing to fear except falling out of grace and being in an impenitent state of grave sin at the time of death. This is why it is important For Catholics to pray the plenary devotions earnestly and to avail themselves of penance. From the devotional promises we know that we are guaranteed final contrition before death - no matter what happens.

Peace,
James

 

[Joyousguard]

While many people have shown that the cross and the sword are not one in the same, this is a picture of the very type of sword used in the time of Christ because they could not create swords two long because they would break. The one Ham displayed is clearly from the middle ages or later.

I don’t think Christ would compare a cross to a type of sword that did not exist at the time.



Ithink Hamba2han has realized first hand that Christains have been studying, reflecting and praying about these things for almost 2000 years. The early church fathers and all those since then were never half hearted in their attempt to understand God more fully. They have left us with countless pages of understanding that help us get closer and closer to understanding not only God but His Son as well. Islam has a long way to go if they ever hope to even catch a glimpse of what is found within the scholarly work of Christainity.

Christains have been defending attacks for generations and a result of those attacks have cemented even further what we already knew to be true. All attacks against Christainity have been refuted for years. But when we extend our hands our charity towards our brothers who do not believe we often find that even those extended hands in themselves have breeched the very core defense of anothers beliefs.

pax tecum

 

[Joyousguard]

I think Hamba2han has realized first hand that Christains have been studying, reflecting and praying about these things for almost 2000 years. The early church fathers and all those since then were never half hearted in their attempt to understand God more fully. They have left us with countless pages of understanding that helps us get closer and closer to understanding not only God but His Son as well. Islam has a long way to go if they ever hope to even catch a glimpse of what is found within the scholarly work of Christainity.

Christains have been defending attacks for generations and a result of those attacks have cemented even further what we already knew to be true. All attacks against Christainity have been refuted for years. But when we extend our hands our charity towards our brothers who do not believe we often find that even those extended hands have breeched the very core of anothers beliefs.

pax tecum

 

[East_and_West]

it’s top looks like a cross, but it is called a sword because you kill by a sword, not by a cross; does not need to much intelligence to know this, does it?

besides, there are swords that do not look like crosses. Is this too difficult to know about as well?

And there are crosses that don’t look like swords. Specicially the tau cross shaped like a capital T. This is the kind of cross that Jesus was most likely crucified on.

 

[Denis_Laplante]

I am afraid the swords brought by the disciples into the garden of Gethsemani was to show, as it was said in one Gospel, to fulfill a biblical passage which stated that the Messiah was to be counted among the wrong-doers! Moreover, what do you make of Jesus’ statement to Pilate in the Gospel according to John: “My Kingdom is not of this world. If it had been of this world, I would have had guards who would have fought in order that I be not given up to the Jews. No, my Kingdom is not of here.” (Sorry about the approximation of the translation from French, I don’t have an English Bible in front of me right now!)
Also, when one quotes from one of Jesus’ parables, which are SPIRITUAL stories told in order to make a point, one must be very careful not to deduce that the meaning is earthly litteral.
The sword, in the instance taken from one such parable, refers to the Last Judgment where those who never wanted the Messiah to reign in their lives at any rate will lose their eternal life, and their throats cut off means that they won’t be able to change their sentence by any further words. The Word of God is the sword of the eternal King, God Himself.
Now, as for Jesus having never said that he was the Son of God or God the Son, if we mean to say that he never said: “I am God” in those very litteral words, well! maybe not. But he made use of indirect ways to say it.
You know that in the book of Exodus God sent Moses to Egypt in this way: “Tell them that I AM (Yah) sent you” right after God revealed His Name to Moses: ehie asher ehie (I am who I am). Now, in the Gospel according to John there is a passage where Jesus says: “Abraham longed so much to see my day, he saw it and his eyes rejoiced.” Then the Jews present told him: “You are not even fifty years old and you have seen Abraham!” Then Jesus said (and he shocked his audience so much as he spoke): “Truly, truly (or “Amen, Amen,”) I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM!” Then they were so shocked by what appeared to them as blasphemy that they took stones on the ground in order to lapidate him, but he then escaped them, “because his hour hadn’t come”… yet!
I am sorry about how some answered, but in the Jewish tradition it is known that Shammai used to dismiss those whom he thought were laughing at true Judaism, while Hillel used to give an answer anyway. God knows the souls better than we do. God bless you all!

 

[dolphinlove]

This most definitely looks like a cross to me:

http://www.medieval-weaponry.co.uk/acatalog/wallaceswordancientwarriorthumbnail.jpg

Seriously Ham,
You should write a sketch for SNL, you make me laugh so hard

 

[dessert]

And there are crosses that don’t look like swords. Specicially the tau cross shaped like a capital T. This is the kind of cross that Jesus was most likely crucified on.

Yes here is a site for it
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tau_cross
The Christian cross looks like the small t instead of T
I was reading about Philipp and they think he carried a Tau on a staff or it was a staff when he traveled and preached.
It reminds me of Calligraphy, the Tau T

 

[hamba2han]

And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me. … Matthew 10:38

To all who say that the ‘cross’ in this verse refers to the crucifix, fair is fair folks and since I have shown you a few verses of the Bible which clearly shows that some of the disciples did indeed used swords, can you in turn show just one verse of the Bible where the disciples who were actually with Jesus (pbuh)… and this would of course exlude Paul… carrying crucifixes?

In the event that you are unable to produce a verse from the Bible which shows the disciples carrying real crucifixes, I would even settle for verses showing them carrying “spiritual” crucifixes as a symbol of their faith and obedience to the teachings of Jesus.

 

[ralphinal]

Life is a spiritual crucifix. pain. sorrow. My bad knees and back. My hypoglaucimia. One of the greatest loves of my life saying that she cannot be with me because she is too sinful for someone as good as me. She never could see in herself that which I saw. My wife leaving me because I had a conversion experiance and she did not. These are spiritual crucifixes. Paul talking about his suffering as a cross. Peter carrying the fact that he denied Christ. Peter being charged with caring for the flock. These are spiritual. Jesus saying to give up everything, including family and possessions, to deny themselves, TAKE UP THEIR CROSS, and follow him.

THat is what makes us holy. Being united with CHrist through good times and bad. Trials and tribulations as well as joy.

Are Muslims immune to pain? DO they not weep? Are there no broken hearts? Do you not have to sacrafice in order to make due in this world? Even if you do not want to see it, it is a spiritual cross.

“Life is pain. Anyone who says anything different is selling something.” From The Princess Bride (great movie). Truth is, that pain is a wonderful thing. We should rejoice in the fact that we have a God who suffered. A God who understands what it is to weep, be hungry, be tired, be sad, be angry. That pain unites us in ways we cannot contemplate.

 

[CentralFLJames]

And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me. … Matthew 10:38

To all who say that the ‘cross’ in this verse refers to the crucifix, fair is fair folks and since I have shown you a few verses of the Bible which clearly shows that some of the disciples did indeed used swords, can you in turn show just one verse of the Bible where the disciples who were actually with Jesus (pbuh)… and this would of course exlude Paul… carrying crucifixes?

In the event that you are unable to produce a verse from the Bible which shows the disciples carrying real crucifixes, I would even settle for verses showing them carrying “spiritual” crucifixes as a symbol of their faith and obedience to the teachings of Jesus.

Hamba - who do you imagine that you are that you can specify to God what criteria you must make him tell you before you accept His truth? Did Satan tell God - “I will not go to Hell until you prove to me you are God?” Don’t be absurd and try to tell God or his children what is black is white and what is white is black and what is good is evil and what is evil is good.

If Jesus’ desciples carried swords then why did they permit themselves to be killed by the evil men? Here is how the most early ones died:

• Matthew suffered martyrdom in Ethiopia, killed by a sword wound.
• Mark died in Alexandria, Egypt, after being dragged by horses through the streets until he was dead.
• Luke was hanged in Greece as a result of his tremendous preaching to the lost.
• John faced martyrdom when he was boiled in a huge basin of boiling oil during a wave of persecution in Rome. However, he was miraculously delivered from death. John was then sentenced to the mines on the prison island of Patmos. He wrote his prophetic Book of Revelation on Patmos. The apostle John was later freed and returned to serve as Bishop of Edessa in modern Turkey. He died as an old man, the only apostle to die peacefully.
• Peter was crucified upside down on an x-shaped cross, according to church tradition because he told his tormentors that he felt unworthy to die in the same way that Jesus Christ had died.
• James the Just, the leader of the church in Jerusalem, was thrown over a hundred feet down from the southeast pinnacle of the Temple when he refused to deny his faith in Christ. When they discovered that he survived the fall, his enemies beat James to death with a fuller’s club. This was the same pinnacle where Satan had taken Jesus during the Temptation.
• James the Greater, a son of Zebedee, was a fisherman by trade when Jesus called him to a lifetime of ministry. As a strong leader of the church, James was ultimately beheaded at Jerusalem. The Roman officer who guarded James watched amazed as James defended his faith at his trial. Later, the officer walked beside James to the place of execution. Overcome by conviction, he declared his new faith to the judge and knelt beside James to accept beheading as a Christian.
• Bartholomew, also know as Nathanael, was a missionary to Asia. He witnessed to our Lord in present day Turkey. Bartholomew was martyred for his preaching in Armenia when he was flayed to death by a whip.
• Andrew was crucified on an x-shaped cross in Patras, Greece. After being whipped severely by seven soldiers they tied his body to the cross with cords to prolong his agony. His followers reported that, when he was led toward the cross, Andrew saluted it in these words: “I have long desired and expected this happy hour. The cross has been consecrated by the body of Christ hanging on it.” He continued to preach to his tormentors for two days until he expired. **NOTE A CROSS NOT A SWORD! **
• The apostle Thomas was stabbed with a spear in India during one of his missionary trips to establish the church in the subcontinent.
• Jude, the brother of Jesus, was killed with arrows when he refused to deny his faith in Christ.
• Matthias, the apostle chosen to replace the traitor Judas Iscariot, was stoned and then beheaded.
• Barnabas, one of the group of seventy disciples, wrote the Epistle of Barnabas. He preached throughout Italy and Cyprus. Barnabas was stoned to death at Salonica.
• The apostle Paul was tortured and then beheaded by the evil Emperor Nero at Rome in A.D. 67. Paul endured a lengthy imprisonment which allowed him to write his many epistles to the churches he had formed throughout the Roman Empire. These letters, which taught many of the foundational doctrines of Christianity, form a large portion of the New Testament.

You need to abandon your contempt for peaceful Christians and accept the truth that no human like can cover over the blood and the sacrifice of Jesus and his saints. If cross means sword how can men be crucified on a cross?

James

 

[dessert]

And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me. … Matthew 10:38

To all who say that the ‘cross’ in this verse refers to the crucifix, fair is fair folks and since I have shown you a few verses of the Bible which clearly shows that some of the disciples did indeed used swords, can you in turn show just one verse of the Bible where the disciples who were actually with Jesus (pbuh)… and this would of course exlude Paul… carrying crucifixes?

In the event that you are unable to produce a verse from the Bible which shows the disciples carrying real crucifixes, I would even settle for verses showing them carrying “spiritual” crucifixes as a symbol of their faith and obedience to the teachings of Jesus.

Ummm you have got to be kidding!!!

John and the two Mary’s were with the "living " and "dieing " one.
And we don’t know but others may have been watching from a distance after all He was on hill high up.

And I just told you about Phillip, he carried one. This is historical.
Well, I hope maybe some day you will see.

 

[Charlie_Zeaiter]

Oh, come on, please don’t get me started on the punishment for apostasy as written in the Bible.

hamba2han,

You should conduct a poll asking Christians and Muslims regarding whether or not they think Jesus was a ‘jihadist’. I think it would make you look like a fool.

I gather you didn’t read my post # 9.

Fancy somebody trying to tell us that a medieval sword is the cross that Jesus was referring to. You are very good a trapping us. A simple and clever picture, yet we need thousands of words to debunk that lie. Quite frankly, I couldn’t be bothered, because no matter how much I try to convince you what the cross is, it wouldn’t matter to you, because you don’t believe Jesus died on it (Qur’an 4:157).

 

[cascherman]

The following is from another thread as the subject of Jesus (pbuh) calling his followers to ‘jihad’ is not really related to the topic of that thread:

Nowhere in the Bible does Jesus (pbuh) unequivocally says that he is God and then proceeds to command his followers to worship him.

On the other hand, the Bible does indeed record that he unequivocally says the following:

Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. … Matthew 10:34

Why then do Christians insist on believing that Jesus is God i.e. something that Jesus himself NEVER said or emphasized throughout his ministry… and yet they refuse to believe that he came not to send peace on earth i.e. something which he did indeed say very clearly and categorically as recorded in Matthew 10:34??

If Christians do believe that salvation can only be obtained by believing in Jesus Christ, then they certainly have a most bizarre way of showing it.

This is akin to someone who is struggling to stay afloat in the ocean and he grasps at a straw i.e. the belief that Jesus is God, in attempting to save himself from drowning… but yet he ignores the lifebuoy i.e. the belief in the things that Jesus actually says in the Bible, which has been thrown right in front of him in the water.

At the Table in the Upper-room where Jesus and his disciples were having the “Last Supper”, he prepares the disciples for the impending showdown with those who wanted to harm them.

"When I sent you without purse, and scrip, and shoes, lacked ye anything?" And they said, “Nothing” Then said he unto them, “But now, he that hath no purse, let him take it, and likewise his bag; and he that hath no SWORD, let him sell his garment and buy one!” … Luke 22:35-36

". . . Lord, behold, here are two SWORDS." And he said unto them, “It is enough” … Luke 22:38

This is a clear and obvious preparation for ‘Jihad’ by Jesus (pbuh) and his disciples.

"And, behold, one of those who were with Jesus stretched out his hand, and drew his SWORD, and struck a servant of the high priests, and cut off his ear." … Matthew 26:51

The Christian missionary, so as to retain the impression of the “meek and gentle Jesus”, “the Prince of Peace”, pleads that the SWORDS were spiritual! If the swords were spiritual, then the “garments” must also be spiritual. If the disciples of Jesus were to sell their SPIRITUAL garments to buy SPIRITUAL swords, in that case they would all become SPIRITUALLY naked!Furthermore, one does not lop off peoples physical ears with spiritual swords.

I have been told my many Muslims that Jihad was just protection of your nation and the internal spiritual war inside ones self. I have heard it is NOT about violence, but protection.

It sounds like you are gung-ho about ‘proving’ that Jesus was a Sword-wielding warrior ready to kill any time, but just like others have pointed out, if he did say these things, he surely didn’t follow his own words.

Of all people it seems silly to try to paint Jesus with a bloody paintbrush, unless you are talking about him on the cross.

 

[CentralFLJames]

This entire series of replies to Hanba only proves the futility in ever trying to appeal to reason where none exists. This will remain the case for most any Islamic committed to the lie of the fundamental Islamic perspective. Only God can change their hearts and give them His wisdom to see the truth. They are trapped in their own self made jail of contempt for fellow humans.

So it takes more than the faculties of intelligence and reason to reach a person who has no spiritual ear nor a rational mind. It is not much different than the futility of a priest trying to exorcise an evil spirit by trying to appeal to the reason of the devil. The devil laughs and scorns truth and only responds to spiritual authority when forced to. So It takes spiritual authority to force some people to see the truth - yet some will never change their nature because they willfully choose out of contempt not to be of God. Woe to them.

So all we are proving here is what the real prophets of God have told us thousands of years ago:

Note: Ishmael was the father of Arabic peoples that was born of the slave girl Hagar (Sarah’s maid) and Abraham but not permitted to inherit the the full blessings of Abraham’s descendants.
Genesis 16:12:

He [e.g. Ishmael & descendants] will be a wild donkey of a man,
His hand will be against everyone,
And every-one’s hand will be against him;
And he will live to the east of all his brothers.”

Genesis 21:10:

After Sarah, who by then had come to dislike both Hagar and Ishmael, saw what he was doing, she said to Abraham “Cast out this slave woman with her son; for the son of this slave woman shall not be heir with my son Isaac.”

Genesis 21:12:

But God said to Abraham, “Be not displeased because of the lad and because of your slave woman (note: Ishmael and Hagar); whatever Sarah says to you, do as she tells you, for through Isaac shall your descendants be named”

Clearly circumstances we see today bear out the truth of what was prophesied so long ago.

James

 

[swariffin]

Maybe we should give poor Hamba the benefit of the doubt. Perhaps he was thinking of Muslim terrorist tactics to get a large force multiplier from the two guys with the swords? You know, unless everyone agreed to convert they could threaten to kill themselves and invoke God’s avenging wrath on millions of God’s enemies? Or maybe start cutting off limbs and tossing them at their enemies?

Or perhaps he is very afraid of the amazing might of individual Christians and imagines each of us is like onto Samson; where any one of us can slay thousands with only the jawbone of an a_ss (sic for filter scanner)? Frankly, in this latter case early Christians wouldn’t even have need of swords. They could have just kept people like himself at hand. Then incite him to run at the mouth anytime we wanted 1000’s more converts looking to escape the pathetic nonsense.

James

Dear James,

I agree with you. Using the analogy of typical court of law, one must be assumed to be innosent until proven otherwise. But, in this thread, our dear brother Hamba2han has proven himself the otherwise. Personally and honestly, I have no “hatred” toward him whatsoever. And neither do I feel offended by his posting, anyway. I don’t mind and I don’t care if he still becoming a muslim. But, I do pray that he will become a good muslim, with a broad openmindedness and believe that God indeed is love, more than the Quran or bible or any holybook can describe.

 

[swariffin]

We can’t really blame the Muslims for being so paranoid about seeing the cross in everything in life. They try to escape but its impossible. It’s every where. They have tried bending their swords in the shape of scimitars; they go out of their way to not permit roads to come together in straight lines at intersections to form right angles that look like a cross, they prevent any window from having a rectangular or square window pain with frame that looks like a cross; they can’t permit square hallways in their homes that form intersections with other halls to form a cross etc.

I even know of a case where the Saudi Arabians spend many millions of dollars to destroy billions in new currency note designs years ago when somone forgot to remove the cross from the window pane in the picture of a mosque placed on the currency. They are that paranoid of all symbols of truth and the cross. They can’t escape it yet they irrationally persist in disavowing the truth.

Can anyone imagine how terrified a Muslim is going to be when Christ comes the final time to slay God’s enemies and His cross flashes across the sky for all to see? I suspect some will finally get the message that there is no escaping God and Jesus as his son but how many will choose to follow the false teaching of Mohammad down to hell for eternity?

Does anyone know if its a sin to pity anyone who chooses to be God’s enemy and mocks Christ’s divinity? Or can we take some solace in knowing that many Islamics get the benefit of insanity at the final judgement that makes it impossible for them to commit a mortal sin without the presence of free will and conscience choice?

James

Dear James,

I could not stop from laughing reading your post. You are correct. I used to hang my rosary around the windshield mirror in my car. After my muslim friend borrowed my car, I realize that my rosary was gone. Later he admitted that he took it off, and put the rosary in the drawer. Sorry for being off topic…

 

[ralphinal]

I have a measure of respect for hamba (and others of any faith who post on this site). He really beleives, man. He is sure of it. That is admirable. He wants to help. That is admirable too. I have said before that if Christians were as dedicated to being Christians as it seems Muslims are at being Muslim, there world would be Christian. Now, why are they so much mroe dedicated than us? That is for another thread.

Keep posting Hamba. Keep staying true to your heart.