The call to 'jihad' by Prophet Jesus (pbuh)

[CalmDownWisWins]

Jesus (pbuh) Does it mean this???

Jesus
p------please
b------bring
u------us (muslims)
h-------home (to the catholic church)
That’s it isn’t it?? I got it right??

While quite funny, and more than worthy of an unmoderated thread of it’s own, it means:

Peace Be Upon Him.

(( Although, since it’s not in arabic as per the koran, it doesn’t REALLY mean that. ))

 

[hamba2han]

how many ways of interpreting a Surah and its verses are there in Islam? Are there some “schools of thought”? Do they have an overseeing authority who would tell the Muslims which interpretations are O.K. and which are not?
What can show me whether Hamba2’s interpretation of the Koran verses he quoted is correct or not? Is he a Muslim scholar, or just a Muslim “layman”, if you will?
God bless you!

No, I am most definitely not a scholar and neither are the extreme majority of Muslims… but it really does not matter much because there is only ONE way to interpret the Qur’an that is acceptable in Islam.

Think of the Qur’an as the map to guide us in the journey of life and think of the Sunnah of the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) as the legend by which to correctly read this map.

The Prophet (pbuh) did not really need to “explain” every aspect of the Qur’an because his companions as well as his family members used to watch him really closely in practically everything he did.

The hadeeth of Ayesha (ra) states that – “He i.e. Muhammad (pbuh) was a living Qur’an”… and this means that his way of teaching the early Muslims was to act and live according to the Qur’an and then others would watch him and do the same.

Just as we should never be foolish enough to try to read a map without referring to the accompanying legend, then only a fool will attempt to interpret the Qur’an in a way which is different than how the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) himself followed the teachings of the Qur’an.

And so, it is the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) who is the ultimate authority on the Qur’an and it is his Sunnah that Muslims refer to in oder to get the most accurate interpretation of the Qur’an possible.

The Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) in his Final Sermon said:

“I leave behind two things, if you hold fast unto them you shall never go astray: the Book of Allah and my Sunnah.”

After the Prophet completed this Sermon near the summit of Arafah, the revelation came down:

"This day have I perfected your religion for you, completed My Grace upon you, and have chosen Islam for you as your religion." … (Al Qur’an: Surah Al-Maeda :3)

Bearing in mind that Islam is the finished product to cap all that has been revealed since the dawn of humankind, then to say that what the Creator Himself has deemed a perfect religion would need to be interpreted differently in order to suit the changing times, simply does not make much sense at all.

After all, if the needs and desires of His creations have not changed one iota since 1,400 years ago, then is there a valid reason why the divine Laws that the Creator has commanded His creations to obey back then need to be interpreted differently today?

I have seen your posts be painstakingly responded to in great detail without the common courtesy of responding in turn to those who have put great effort into their endeavours.

My sincere apologies, it is just that there are often far too many issues being raised for me to address… and many of them are not really related to the topic of this thread.

However, for those who really do wish to learn and ask questions about Islam, then I would suggest that it would be far better for you to pursue this in a more appropriate forum than here.

I therefore wish to invite all who are interested in learning and asking questions about Islam to participate at the Muslim forum that I often visit where God-willing, you will be able to engage in meaningful dialogue with and obtain a lot more info from many other Muslims there than from just the few Muslims here.

Kindly register and introduce yourself at this forum and then ask all the questions on matters related to Islam that you wish… or even post stuff about the Catholic faith… and God-willing, it would be of mutual benefit to you and all the forum members there as well.

 

[Booklover]

It’s too ironic that you go all the way back to Adam and the garden of Eden to compare the Love of Satan with the Love of Christians. That’s like comparing apples and oranges - two different things. There is NO love in Satan. With Satan there is only hate, deception and lies. God says through Jesus "I will write my laws on your hearts’ (Jeremiah. 31:33). So we Christians hear with our hearts as well as our minds. God’s love is not fully found in the cold stone tablets of Moses 10 commandments anymore so than it is found in the stone cold hearts of those that have contempt for humanity. Christians love and are obedient to love. They are not obedient to fear.

Christians are called to reverently but confidently come to God as “God The Father” and embrace Him in love as His inherited children to receive the full affections of God.

Islam embraces the old testament slave relationship to God out of fear.

If Muslims loved the truth they would first learn their own history, then learn how to read and interpret scriptures and then love their fellow man as the claim they love God. Islam can not be charitable without loving both God and Man any more so than the sword (or the cross) seperate God from the Love of Jesus his fully Human Son who is also fully Divine. The relationship between God and Jesus forms the entire word of the two great commandments - Love God and Love Neighbor. It is impossible to love God without Loving your neighbor - which is what Islam attempts to do. So Islam can never be obedient to God while it holds the rest of humanity in contempt.

James

Excellent post, James!

Vickie

 

[Booklover]

Christians should realise that they do not have a monopoly on LOVE.

We never said we did.

Satan LOVES making the children of Adam stray away from the true path.

Yes, he does by pretending that sin doesn’t exist and by making evil appear good.

This is why Muslims LOVE the Truth for it can only come from Allah and it is something that Satan truly hates.

To know the Truth, Christians really do need to refer to what Jesus (pbuh) actually says in the Bible… NOT merely listen to what their hearts are saying for it is not a big problem for Satan to whisper things into people’s hearts.

Remember that the Truth will set you free.

Tell us, why is it that Muslims see Muhammad as perfect and fail to see the evil things he did or had done in the name of Allah? Is it okay or even sane, to have someone killed for merely writing satyrical poems about you?

Your hadiths have stories of immense cruelty attributed to Muhammad and written by his followers, not his detractors, so they must be true. How can you consider a man like that to be a prophet of God??

We see these flaws in the so-called “perfection” of Muhammad and Muslims do not! Why is this? Could it be that the devil has whispered in your ears as you say, and made someone evil appear good??

Vickie

 

[inJESUS]

I have already answered this long ago

And the first matter is – Why should Jesus (pbuh) say that two swords are “enough” and not simply order his disciples to put the swords away if it was true that he was not preparing for battle?

 

[Booklover]

everything he did.

The hadeeth of Ayesha (ra) states that – “He i.e. Muhammad (pbuh) was a living Qur’an”… and this means that his way of teaching the early Muslims was to act and live according to the Qur’an and then others would watch him and do the same.

Of course he is a “living Quran” since it’s his own fabrication!

Bearing in mind that Islam is the finished product to cap all that has been revealed since the dawn of humankind, then to say that what the Creator Himself has deemed a perfect religion would need to be interpreted differently in order to suit the changing times, simply does not make much sense at all.

If Islam is so perfect, why are Muslim countries so backward, ignorant and full of superstitions?? Islam is a complete return to barbarism, cruelty and intolerance!

However, for those who really do wish to learn and ask questions about Islam, then I would suggest that it would be far better for you to pursue this in a more appropriate forum than here.

I therefore wish to invite all who are interested in learning and asking questions about Islam to participate at the Muslim forum that I often visit where God-willing, you will be able to engage in meaningful dialogue with and obtain a lot more info from many other Muslims there than from just the few Muslims here.

Kindly register and introduce yourself at this forum and then ask all the questions on matters related to Islam that you wish… or even post stuff about the Catholic faith… and God-willing, it would be of mutual benefit to you and all the forum members there as well.

What good would this do, if they do the same thing of posting the same stuff over and over again even after it’s been refuted?

Vickie

 

[mangy_dog]

No, I am most definitely not a scholar and neither are the extreme majority of Muslims… but it really does not matter much because there is only ONE way to interpret the Qur’an that is acceptable in Islam.

Think of the Qur’an as the map to guide us in the journey of life and think of the Sunnah of the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) as the legend by which to correctly read this map.

The Prophet (pbuh) did not really need to “explain” every aspect of the Qur’an because his companions as well as his family members used to watch him really closely in practically everything he did.

The hadeeth of Ayesha (ra) states that – “He i.e. Muhammad (pbuh) was a living Qur’an”… and this means that his way of teaching the early Muslims was to act and live according to the Qur’an and then others would watch him and do the same.

Just as we should never be foolish enough to try to read a map without referring to the accompanying legend, then only a fool will attempt to interpret the Qur’an in a way which is different than how the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) himself followed the teachings of the Qur’an.

And so, it is the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) who is the ultimate authority on the Qur’an and it is his Sunnah that Muslims refer to in oder to get the most accurate interpretation of the Qur’an possible.

The Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) in his Final Sermon said:

“I leave behind two things, if you hold fast unto them you shall never go astray: the Book of Allah and my Sunnah.”

After the Prophet completed this Sermon near the summit of Arafah, the revelation came down:

"This day have I perfected your religion for you, completed My Grace upon you, and have chosen Islam for you as your religion." … (Al Qur’an: Surah Al-Maeda :3)

Bearing in mind that Islam is the finished product to cap all that has been revealed since the dawn of humankind, then to say that what the Creator Himself has deemed a perfect religion would need to be interpreted differently in order to suit the changing times, simply does not make much sense at all.

After all, if the needs and desires of His creations have not changed one iota since 1,400 years ago, then is there a valid reason why the divine Laws that the Creator has commanded His creations to obey back then need to be interpreted differently today?

My sincere apologies, it is just that there are often far too many issues being raised for me to address… and many of them are not really related to the topic of this thread.

However, for those who really do wish to learn and ask questions about Islam, then I would suggest that it would be far better for you to pursue this in a more appropriate forum than here.

I therefore wish to invite all who are interested in learning and asking questions about Islam to participate at the Muslim forum that I often visit where God-willing, you will be able to engage in meaningful dialogue with and obtain a lot more info from many other Muslims there than from just the few Muslims here.

Kindly register and introduce yourself at this forum and then ask all the questions on matters related to Islam that you wish… or even post stuff about the Catholic faith… and God-willing, it would be of mutual benefit to you and all the forum members there as well.

Wait just a minute Hambo! If Muhammed was a living Q’ran and the Q’ran is the Word of God…!?

Why is it so scandulous to think that Jesus is the Son of God.???
Isn’t there a little bit of double standard here???
Especially in light of the fact that Muhammed was violent where Jesus is peaceful. And Muhammed didn’t do miracles where Jesus did. And the prophets never foretold the coming of Muhammed where aaalllllll the prophets foretell the coming of the Messiah, Jesus Christ, God with us!!!

The more you thread and carry-on about Islam, the clearer it becomes that it is a flawed religion in every way.

 

[hamba2han]

Tell us, why is it that Muslims see Muhammad as perfect and fail to see the evil things he did or had done in the name of Allah?

"But those mine enemies, who would not that I should REIGN over them, bring them hither, and SLAY them before me" … Luke 19:27.

Would Christians care to explain whether the person who said these words is good or evil?

If you say that this person is good, then why did he give such an order to slay his enemies who refuse to accept his reign over them?

 

[inJESUS]

"But those mine enemies, who would not that I should REIGN over them, bring them hither, and SLAY them before me" … Luke 19:27.

Would Christians care to explain whether the person who said these words is good or evil?

If you say that this person is good, then why did he give such an order to slay his enemies who refuse to accept his reign over them?

this person is God on the judgment day.Its a parable

When will you learn to read?

 

[mark_a]

Most Muslims respectfully believe that Christians are wrong about Jesus’ divinity and the Holy Trinity.

Some Jews have made the mistake of believing that certain men who lived after Jesus’ time were the “messiah” (Bar Kochba, maybe others).

Were there any men before Jesus’ time who were thought to be “the” messiah?

 

[Booklover]

this person is God on the judgment day.Its a parable

When will you learn to read?

It’s amazing, isn’t it! This has been refuted so many times and Muslims keep bringing it up ad nauseam!

Vickie

 

[Werman]

I would like to rattle my stick upon our cages… Call it my jihad!

I had a person tell me once how they believe Mohammed came up with his visions…

This well educated person told me the following; "What he believed happened, was the book of Genesis fell off of the back of a camel. Mohammed found it laying in the sand. Mohammed then picked “The book of Genesis” up and took it into his dark cave.

After Mohammed did much study of “The book of Genesis” he made his revisions to it. Mohammed then stumbled out of the dark cave with his scribbling of a new law for his people.

Every since then Mohammed’s people have lived un-happy ever after! “I believe it will stay that way until love comes into their faith!”

I “Werman” honestly believe that this is pretty close to what happened to bring about the Koran!

In saying this - I must also say many Christian faiths followed “The book of Genesis” in it’s eye for an eye tooth for a tooth much to long. Follow the history of the “Knights of Templar”& The Islam faith battles and so on -------------

Joseph Campbell was most correct when he referred to "
The Power of Faith" No! - he said “The Power of Myth”- didn’t he?

If I were a person with out a “Faith - Religion” and I were given a choice to love my fellow man or to kill and be-head all others that would not follow mine. My choice would be a simple decision I assure you. Is it not better to love one another than to Kill?

So in away Jesus did tell us to do battle against all evil!

Werman

 

[exoflare]

It’s amazing, isn’t it! This has been refuted so many times and Muslims keep bringing it up ad nauseam!

Vickie

I keep telling you guys, people like “Hambo” don’t listen to a word you say. They are up for a monologue, not a dialogue. Stop wasting your time talking to brick walls like this. I’ll say it again… if you want to do something productive for this guy then say a Hail Mary each time he makes another one of his troll-posts. Don’t even bother to announce this or respond to him. Just do it!

 

[Werman]

You wrote; However, for those who really do wish to learn and ask questions about Islam, then I would suggest that it would be far better for you to pursue this in a more appropriate forum than here.

You may be a very sincere person wishing to exchange ideas about faith. However I would not trust to find justice on any Islam controlled board. Just perhaps you might seek me out and cut off my little head!

It would be wonderful if we could all exchange thoughts faiths and learn to stop the endless wars, genocides for what ever the reasons. “Alas scripture tells us - Wars & Rumors of Wars”!

Tell me my friend how does your faith tell you to deal with those that are not of your faith?

Werman

 

[hamba2han]

this person is God on the judgment day.Its a parable

No, it is not because it does not make any sense at all for God to order any of His creations to be slain on Judgment Day… on account that all of the creations have not only already died but have also been resurrected on that Day to face Judgment.

Christians need to read and analyse their Bible in order to identify the person who ordered the slaying.

Jesus (pbuh) made his triumphant royal entry into Jerusalem at the head of an excited and enthusiastic following, with high hopes of establishing the “Kingdom of God” any minute; riding a donkey to fulfill prophecy (Zechariah 9:9) –

**Tell ye the daughter of Zion, behold, thy KING cometh. . .
sitting upon an *. . .
And a great multitude spread their garments. . .
and branches in the way. . .
and the multitude cried, saying,
“Hosanna to the SON OF DAVID. . .
Hosanna in the highest . . .” … Matthew 21:5-9

". . . because he was near to Jerusalem, and because they thought that the kingdom of God should IMMEDIATELY appear" … Luke 19:11

"But those mine enemies, who would not that I should REIGN over them, bring them hither, and SLAY them before me" … Luke 19:27.

. . . Blessed be the KING who cometh in the name of the Lord. … Luke 19:38.

And so, again I ask, is this person who ordered his enemies who refuse to accept his reign to be slain, good or evil?

 

[CentralFLJames]

No, I am most definitely not a scholar and neither are the extreme majority of Muslims. [James said: Finally Hamba (pbuh) says the truth. ] but it really does not matter much because there is only ONE way to interpret the Qur’an that is acceptable in Islam. ** James said: Ooops, Hamba is back to lies again and has the logic backward. There are in fact many ways to interpret the Quran (as evidenced by the constantly warring-to-the-death Sunni and Shia sects and sub-sects who hate each other and see each as false Muslims). But all interpretations always retain the same dubious genesis of violence, suppression and intolerance. And even the traditions will always lead an educated, sane and rational and objectively-critical mind to the same ONE truth. The inescapable truth is that Mohammad fabricated Islam from fragments of heretical Christian writings, portions of Jewish scripture and wrapped it all up in an Arabic-centric social custom. He then tossed in some popular Arabic pagan mythology and added in his own irrational and contradictory sayings each time his men found new logic errors and needed a revision. In fact, Mohammad constantly changed his teaching each time his men stumbled on conflicting teachings (like ‘was it OK to rape, pillage and loot enemies on the holy days’ or ‘if it was requited to keep prisoners who would not convert to Islam through holy days before executing them’ or 'killing a person who converted to Islam if he appeared insincere and only afraid for his life etc. etc.).

Mohammad was mostly illiterate and often had epileptic fits when he was having his so called revelations. Many religious theologians think he may have been demonicly possessed by a Jin that Mohammad himself mentions.]**

The hadeeth of Ayesha (ra) states that – “He i.e. Muhammad (pbuh) was a living Qur’an”… and this means that his way of teaching the early Muslims was to act and live according to the Qur’an and then others would watch him and do the same.
[James said: Another fallacy since the Koran was not written for 200 hundred years after Muhammad’s death (poisoned by a Jewish woman in retribution for murdering her family). By Hamda’s own definition this means there was a gap of at least 200 years were Islam was dead and was only figuratively resurrected in the logic here by the descendants of his corrupt men. Mohammad’s original men all committed blasphemy for arguing who was to inherit Mohammad’s place while letting Mohammad’s corpse rot unburied for 4 days (against teaching). If Islam is “Truth” it is a cursed truth by Mohammad’s own teaching. Sorry Hamda but this kind of logic stinks as bad as the rotting deed and the resurrection of Islam 200 years late can’t compare to Jesus’ real resurrection.]

And so, it is the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) who is the ultimate authority on the Qur’an and it is his Sunni that Muslims refer to in oder to get the most accurate interpretation of the Qur’an possible.

Comments included above.

James
“Arise Oh Lord and let Thy enemies be scatterd and let them that hate They flee from before Thy Face.”

 

[jttierney1]

Christians should realise that they do not have a monopoly on LOVE.

Satan LOVES making the children of Adam stray away from the true path.

This is why Muslims LOVE the Truth for it can only come from Allah and it is something that Satan truly hates.

To know the Truth, Christians really do need to refer to what Jesus (pbuh) actually says in the Bible… NOT merely listen to what their hearts are saying for it is not a big problem for Satan to whisper things into people’s hearts.

Remember that the Truth will set you free.

“Satan LOVES making the children of Adam stray away from the true path.”
hamba2han That’s not love.
Love is patient, love is kind. It is not jealous, love is not pompous, it is not inflated, it is not rude, it does not seek its own interests, it is not quick-tempered, it does not brood over injury, it does not rejoice over wrongdoing but rejoices with the truth. 1Cor. 13: 4

“Remember that the Truth will set you free”

hamba2han do you know you just quoted Jesus?
He was speaking about himself. John 8:32
He also says “I am the way and the truth and the life.” John 14:6

Keep quoting Jesus like that and we’ll have you a Catholic in no time!

Yes the truth WILL set you free!

 

[Denis_Laplante]

It looks as though Hamba2han overlooked my answer in #67:

…] when one quotes from one of Jesus’ parables, which are SPIRITUAL stories told in order to make a point, one must be very careful not to deduce that the meaning is earthly litteral.
The sword, in the instance taken from one such parable, refers to the Last Judgment where those who never wanted the Messiah to reign in their lives at any rate will lose their eternal life, and their throats cut off means that they won’t be able to change their sentence by any further words. The Word of God is the sword of the eternal King, God Himself.

The one who says,“SLAY THEM IN FRONT OF ME” is the king from the parable, or the story. I think Jesus wanted the people who were saying, “Blessed (or Happy) are the ones invited to stand before Thee in Thy Kingdom” to think more deeply the implications of being in front of THIS King of Kings: they will have to get rid of they sinful deeds AND their sinful inclinations, and so should the rest of the world! And so many people simply don’t want to do that through! And so, all those who declared they didn’t want to serve THIS ONE KING won’t enjoy the sight of Him who truly is the Way, the Truth and the Life, and so they will lose their lives since life comes from THIS ONE KING and they wanted no share in the One who is Life. This will happen in the Last Judgment, at the end of time. Does it make sense to you, Hamba2han? And if it doesn’t, how and why? Don’t you have any story-teller among you Muslims who would make use of fiction to make a point?.. I am sure that there are! Do you always take their stories to have actually happened?
May Allah (Arab Christians also have called God “Allah” even before Muhammad existed, you knew that?) truly bless you!

 

[Denis_Laplante]

No, I am most definitely not a scholar and neither are the extreme majority of Muslims… but it really does not matter much because there is only ONE way to interpret the Qur’an that is acceptable in Islam.

Think of the Qur’an as the map to guide us in the journey of life and think of the Sunnah of the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) as the legend by which to correctly read this map.

The Prophet (pbuh) did not really need to “explain” every aspect of the Qur’an because his companions as well as his family members used to watch him really closely in practically everything he did.

The hadeeth of Ayesha (ra) states that – “He i.e. Muhammad (pbuh) was a living Qur’an”… and this means that his way of teaching the early Muslims was to act and live according to the Qur’an and then others would watch him and do the same.

Just as we should never be foolish enough to try to read a map without referring to the accompanying legend, then only a fool will attempt to interpret the Qur’an in a way which is different than how the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) himself followed the teachings of the Qur’an.

And so, it is the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) who is the ultimate authority on the Qur’an and it is his Sunnah that Muslims refer to in oder to get the most accurate interpretation of the Qur’an possible.

Maybe so, but you yourself certainly haven’t seen the prophet Muhammad with your own eyes, have you? Therefore, how are you so sure that all the accounts of Muhammad’s deeds and words are thoroughly faithful to what he actually did and said? How are you so sure none of the writers embellished the truth so as to add some things on their own (even in the case when they would want to make a point), a bit like some scenes from the movie Jesus of Nazareth which sound faithful to the spirit of the Gospel even though those scenes are not quite in the Gospel the way they are shown… you see what I mean?
God bless you.

 

[swariffin]

Hmmm, maybe you should look real well under the car and under the hood to make sure he didn’t leave any special clocks or other ticking devices as a gift for borrowing it…

kidding…
James

Dear James,

It is quite late responding to your joke. Until now nothing happen to my car. Perhaps, due to a friend, my muslim friend set longer time for the ticking device before it go booooom. Just returning your joke, brother. But anyway, he is a good friend to me. Thanks for the joke. It brought back good feeling after the dull hour.