The Case Against Contraception

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Mary_Gail_36 said:
Are married Catholics who practice NFP having abortions at this rate?
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obviously not because they know that its wrong. but the point was people were trying to blame contraception on abortion, when in reality contraception is probably the leading fighter of abortions. many people of non-christian living would have much more abortions if contraception was not available. this is why blaming abortion on controception is stupid. my question is why do catholics find contraception a sin. this has yet to be explained. i learned that the pill can cause something like a abortion and im glad i now know that but condoms and pulling out have yet to been explained. so has the difference between those and NFP
 
EternalJade said:
The problemwith what you are saying is, there is logically NO difference at all between a couple using NFP and one using a barrier. The intentions and even the mindset are the same. Your rhetoric comes from attributing a simple minded one-size-fits-all negative mindset and motives to abc users that simply isn’t there, it’s pulled out of the air regarding 95%+ married couples. Both barriers and NFP reduce sex down to the unitive/ pleasure aspect. If you chart your mucous etc then time sex for infertility you are kidding yourself if you think your sex has a deeper meaning than anyone elses. I guess I don’t see sex for pleasure as selfish or wrong between a married couple. It’s happening with both methods.
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👍

sex has more then one purpose, there is the baby making, and then there is loving your spouse and wanting to simple please them sexually. if a man buys his wife a cute outfit the outfit has 2 purposes one is so she is clothed the other is simple the pleasure of having the outfit. neither are wrong or sinfull. it only become sinfull when you let it get out of controle or let the actions be for your own good.
 
Debora123 said:
That’s weird, this chart is saying that menstruation days are not safe days. That isn’t the case with the method I learned.
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Well that would be because ovulation could occur early in the cycle, Fertile mucus could then be present in the menstrual flow, but not observable. So intercourse is avoided.

Creighton is very similar, but intercourse is permitted on light days of the menstrual cycle, provided there is no mucus detected.
 
sw85 said:
Sigh.

You are denying that you dissent from a Church teaching (the opposite being to “assent,” to agree to follow something)? Or that you are rebelling against the legitimate masterium of the Church??
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i dont understand this part of yalls faith, im lutheran. the churches teaching are from the Pope, if i am correct in saying this then it is all subject to error, the pope is mearly human and even the best of us humans have really screwed up so how can you believe every thing the Church tells you?
There is nothing even remotely offensive about either of those words; they are simply statements of fact. The Church was founded by Christ Himself: you owe it obedience: to deny it that is to rebel against a legitimate sovereign.
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again christ told peter to creat the church and be in charge and peter was human. so many mistakes could have been made, im not saying they were made but simply saying that unless it was stated in the bible we are simply using are judgment about what God would want. again subject to many human errors.
The distinction between them is one of means. NFP conforms to the end of the sexual faculty because the act itself is not altered in any way; it still conforms to the manner in which procreation occurs. Contraception does not. You do not conceive children, in principle, by ejaculating in a condom, or in a vagina that has been intentionally sterilized by oral contraception: the *act itself *is qualitatively altered.
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this brings rise to the fact that sex has more then one purpose sex is to creat kids and to love your spouse. saying sex is only for making babies is like saying were like cats and dogs. we are much higher then animals and sex is much more then creating life
Sex consistent with the end of procreation simply means “the kind of sex which, in principle, results in conception”; whether or not it happens to result in procreation, or even if it is capable of resulting in procreation for a particular couple at a particular time, is irrelevant.
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how is it irrellavent? the difference between a condom and just waiting till your wife is infertile. mentally they are identicale. sure it feals a lil better and suposidly science says its better for the women when there is no barrior, but mentally its the same.
 
alfred14 said:
obviously not because they know that its wrong. but the point was people were trying to blame contraception on abortion, when in reality contraception is probably the leading fighter of abortions. many people of non-christian living would have much more abortions if contraception was not available. this is why blaming abortion on controception is stupid. my question is why do catholics find contraception a sin. this has yet to be explained. i learned that the pill can cause something like a abortion and im glad i now know that but condoms and pulling out have yet to been explained. so has the difference between those and NFP
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I can’t imagine that in nearly 200 posts, it hasn’t been explained why the Church teaches contraception is sinful, but admittedly, I have not read every single post.

Contraception is not sinful because of any link to abortion, save for the fact that both are enemies of God’s order of life. Contraception is sinful because it is “against life” (the etymology of the word itself) and being against life is obviously sinful. Contraception is the human act of willfully placing barriers in various forms to negate the possibility of conception. It is playing God…it is a definitive and obstinate “no” to life, hence a “no” to God, hence gravely sinful. In contrast, NFP is a “if it be your will Lord” to life, it is a “we will fully allow for the natural possibility of conception”. It never refuses life, it never places barriers, it simply works with the natural order of the human body to allow for graceful prudence in the construct of a family.
 
patrick127 said:
It’s not the way I feel per se…it was the way I was taught by the Catholic Church.?
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i do not understand how you can hold so strongly to something you were taught when it “isnt the way u fell per se”
Belief and understanding are 2 different things.
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👍👍👍 this is a verry important thing to understand.
I have faith in the Church…I don’t understand it all…I may not understand most of it, but I do Believe that Jesus came to earth and before he left he established this Church, the Catholic Church,
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jesuss did not create a Catholic church, Jesus created THE CHURCH, which is all the christians out there. we are all THE CHURCH.
since I believe in that I follow what his church says.
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this last line is something that many people make fun of catholics for, i am not making fun just wanting to show you something. you basically just said you were told to do it there for you do it. I dont think it is EVER ok to simply do or believe ANYTHING simply bc someone told you to. thats how so many jews were killed. when your little your parents say dont do something and i garantee you did it, then learned not to. then as you got older you caught on that your parents were usually correct so you start to listen to them and do as they say, but as you get older you are able to think for your self and when your parents say not to do something you are able to logically figure out why not to do it.

Basically im saying dont do bc your told to do, do bc you feal that that is what God wants you to do, or bc logics says its the right thing.
 
patrick127 said:
I do Believe that Jesus came to earth and before he left he established this Church, the Catholic Church,
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Catholic = Universal. The Catholic church was supposed to be the European “universal” church Constantine wanted to unite Europe so he melded the many belief systems of Europe together to create his universal, or Catholic church. Roman of course refers to the fact that the center of the church was established in Rome.

Constantine not Jesus created teh Catholic church, Jesus created the human church.
 
Mary_Gail_36 said:
There seems to be an idea that ABC and NFP are exactly the same thing. A high percentage of babies are aborted because the method of ABC failed. 54 percent is equal to about 700,000 babies.
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there is no logic hear a person practing NFP is highly likly to be Catholic, thus meaning they wont get abortions, and someone practing ABC will probably not be christian.
 
ahs said:
By the way, how many people who practice NFP have abortions when they get an unexpected pregnancy?
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in oreder to compare the people who use contraception vs the ones using NFP, and the corolation to abortion, you must first ilimanate anyone who is christian. these would not ever have an abortion to begin with. if a study was then done you would see that the percentage of abortions of people practing NFP and using contraception would be almost identicale. you continue to point at contraception as a link to abortion and that NFP is a cure all bc it has less abortions. the NFP and contraception are not linked to the abortions, the link is human morals.
 
SteveGC said:
It is playing God…it is a definitive and obstinate “no” to life, hence a “no” to God, hence gravely sinful…
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this is wrong i know a family who have 3 kids all born while wearing condoms and taking the pill. thats like a .0001% chance but God gave them kids.
In contrast, NFP is a “if it be your will Lord” to life, it is a “we will fully allow for the natural possibility of conception”.
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more like “if it be your will but ima do my best to not let it happen” you are intintally only having sex when your wife is not fertile. how is this giving life a chance. in all honesty i would think that contraception would give you better ods of making a new life.
It never refuses life,
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it does just that, by having sex when the egg is not ready for sperm you are playing God, its just a “Natural” way of playing God.
 
ahs said:
…Exactly! What does that tell you about people who practice NFP? How does that not show you a difference between contraception and NFP, between the overall mindset of those who use or advocate contraception and those use or advocate NFP?
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you are making your self look silly. listen to what you are trying to compare. your comparing the way someone has sex and your matching that with what they do when the have a kid. NFP is a Catholic teaching, and so most NFP, if not all, wont have an abortion. but if you made contraception illigal and left NFP as the only way not to have kids abortion raights would not go down but actually double or triple. i dont know how else to explain this. if the non christians practice NFP they will still get abortions.

there are millions of people who use contraception that will never have an abortion. the only thing your proving is that the non christian people use contraception. which is how is been for a couple 1000 years.
 
joshrp said:
Sex during infertile periods does not cause procreation.
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exactly thus proving the point that NFP is just as wrong as controception. both avoid procreation. BUT since your told to belive one is better then the other you belive.
 
SteveGC said:
I can’t imagine that in nearly 200 posts, it hasn’t been explained why the Church teaches contraception is sinful…
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It’s all really quite simple. People just want to find loop holes or use wait for it…“logic and reason” to go around Church teaching. Contraception is sinful because it is not open to life. Period! That’s the answer! Contra means against conception meaning the fertilization inside the woman to create life. When God commanded that husband and wife multiply and fill the earth He meant it. The Church recognizes that sex has two functions, a life creating and unifying aspect. When one is done only (against life creation through contraceptives) it goes against one of the both functions. If both are not met then sex is sinful provided that anti-life is done through our own will and actions (not being able because of sterility doesn’t count i.g.). The discussion is really finished there.

People tend to forget that all Christians taught that contraceptives were evil and sinful until the early 1900s when the Anglican Church allowed the use between married couples (sometimes). That was the first of many links that started to break. We were all united on this issue but now no more. Now there is only one Church that teaches it is still sinful…the Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church. Truth does not change my friends…the Church does not bow down to the times as it shouldn’t and as truth shouldn’t for then it is not truth.
 
SteveGC said:
…Contraception is sinful because it is “against life” (the etymology of the word itself) and being against life is obviously sinful. Contraception is the human act of willfully placing barriers in various forms to negate the possibility of conception. It is playing God…it is a definitive and obstinate “no” to life, hence a “no” to God, hence gravely sinful. In contrast, NFP is a “if it be your will Lord” to life, it is a “we will fully allow for the natural possibility of conception”. It never refuses life, it never places barriers, it simply works with the natural order of the human body to allow for graceful prudence in the construct of a family.
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👍 Well said Steve. It really can’t get much clearer. If anyone disagrees its your prerogative. Non-catholics I understand. Catholics not so much…
 
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