The Case Against Transubstantiation

[MementoMori3283]

Wow, a Jewish person comes to a Catholic Apologetics forum and tells us we don’t know much about our religion. What secret exactly is the CC holding back until after the converts have converted to the cult?

BTW, I know plenty of Jewish people, who belong synagogue and are atheist.

I don’t think you should be offended Christine. Their is truth in her statement. In my parish there are 1600 families. 400 go to Mass regularly. I have found in discussion with them [that] they do not consider knowledge of Sacred Scripture as necessary as does say, St Jerome.

Obviously, she is not speaking to the small minority of the 1.1 billion Catholics who read and heed. If the majority did so, there would be less of all that is evil in the world; considerably.

 

[wisdomseeker]

I have found that this is generally true of most Catholics, also.

Warning!

if you insult catholics you are insulting judaism itself. dont you know that catholicism is a continuity of Judaism itself? the New Covenant between God and man made by Jesus Christ.

 

[po18guy]

OK, so they’re pseudo-Christian.

My point is that no matter what they are called, whether or not they believe in the Real Presence seems rather inconsequential, in view of all of the other aberrant doctrines they have.

Or put another way, even if they accepted the Real Presence, it would make no difference because they are not truly Christian anyway. When I realized this, it seemed to be pointless to have a discussion about the pertinence to Mormonism of the concept of the Real Presence.

Exactly right. I was not intending to be, or appear augmentative. I cannot have a conversation with LDS when they quote from the BOM. I might as well reply quoting from the Reader’s Digest, since they don’t accept that just as I cannot accept the BOM!

If their belief in the Real Presence is included in a bundle that contains the ascendance to godhood, different levels of heaven and the view of women as incomplete without a man, it’s fatally flawed and must be thrown out as a package. The only man a woman needs to get to heaven is Jesus Christ!

So many get these relationships and processes exactly backward. Man is limited and cannot be made God. God is unlimited and can be made man, in the person of Christ. Get it backwards and confusion reigns.

Christ’s peace.

 

[MelanieAnne]

Exactly right. I was not intending to be, or appear augmentative. I cannot have a conversation with LDS when they quote from the BOM. I might as well reply quoting from the Reader’s Digest, since they don’t accept that just as I cannot accept the BOM!

If their belief in the Real Presence is included in a bundle that contains the ascendance to godhood, different levels of heaven and the view of women as incomplete without a man, it’s fatally flawed and must be thrown out as a package. The only man a woman needs to get to heaven is Jesus Christ!

So many get these relationships and processes exactly backward. Man is limited and cannot be made God. God is unlimited and can be made man, in the person of Christ. Get it backwards and confusion reigns.

Christ’s peace.

Well, as it happens they reject the Real Presence but, as I said, in the grand scheme of All Things Mormon, I don’t believe it really matters.

Mormons don’t really accept the Bible. Or at least, they don’t accept it if it conflicts in any way with their understanding of the BOM. The proof of that is in this very thread. Because the Real Presence is Biblical & yet we see arguments against it

I like your description and explanation. You’re completely right, when you get things backwards, confusion reigns.

 

[qui_est_ce]

I don’t think you should be offended Christine. Their is truth in her statement. In my parish there are 1600 families. 400 go to Mass regularly. I have found in discussion with them [that] they do not consider knowledge of Sacred Scripture as necessary as does say, St Jerome.

Obviously, she is not speaking to the small minority of the 1.1 billion Catholics who read and heed. If the majority did so, there would be less of all that is evil in the world; considerably.

Exactly. I think many non-practising Catholics call themselves Catholic. But a Protestant would not be as inclined to ally himself with an institution if he were not practising. There’s something that keeps Catholics tied. My sister does not practice, but she calls herself Catholic. She says, “Once a Catholic always a Catholic.”

I would say Catholics know a lot of Scripture if they attend mass regularly, they just don’t realize it.

I was just watching President Bush greet the Pope. It’s really awesome.

 

[po18guy]

Participating in the Eucharist unworthily courts damnation. That’s in the Bible. That’s why we have the sacrament of reconciliation. The worthiness of the recipient has no bearing on the nature of the elements of the Eucharist.

Amen! If some “other” faith does not have reconciliation, ummmm, just how do they suppose to be restored to righteousness? Post-Baptismal forgiveness is the “Elephant in the living room” of every non-Catholic faith.

Christ’s peace,.

 

[zerinus]

I concur. Was yours a matter of fact statement or would you like to expound?

According to a news report I was listening to a couple of days ago relative to the Pope’s expected visit to the US, only about 11% of Catholic France go to Mass on Sundays. In Ireland (probably the most devout Catholic in Europe), the figure has halved during the past decade or so. Some people here have pointed with glee to the LDS figure of 40% or 50% inactivity rate. Well, in the Catholic Church it appears to be around 90%! Any thoughts on that?

zerinus

 

[zerinus]

Strictly speaking, the LDS are pseudo-Christian, since their concept of Christ is at odds with both scripture and mainstream Christian belief. This does not mean they are not well-intended, nor does it mean that they are insincere. It simply means they are wrong.

Christ’s peace.

Strictly speaking, Catholics are Apostates, since their concept of Christ is at odds with scripture and in agreement with mainstream Apostate Christian belief. This does not mean they are not well-intended, nor does it mean that they are insincere. It simply means they are wrong.

zerinus

 

[zerinus]

Wow, a Jewish person comes to a Catholic Apologetics forum and tells us we don’t know much about our religion. What secret exactly is the CC holding back until after the converts have converted to the cult?

BTW, I know plenty of Jewish people, who belong synagogue and are atheist.

According to Jesus Christ:

“Salvation is of the Jews” (John 4:22).

zerinus

 

[zerinus]

I was just watching President Bush greet the Pope. It’s really awesome.

I am sure it was. Did you know that LDS President Gordon B. Hinckley had been to the White House on several occasions, met with several past Presidents of the US, and in 2004 he was awarded the Presidential Medal of Freedom (the nations highest civilian honor) by President George W. Bush?

medaloffreedom.com/GordonHinckley.htm

newsroom.lds.org/ldsnewsroom/eng/news-releases-stories/president-gordon-b-hinckley-awarded-presidential-medal-of-freedom

zerinus

 

[zerinus]

Mormons don’t really accept the Bible. Or at least, they don’t accept it if it conflicts in any way with their understanding of the BOM. The proof of that is in this very thread. Because the Real Presence is Biblical & yet we see arguments against it

Catholics don’t really accept the Bible. Or at least, they don’t accept it if it conflicts in any way with their Apostate theology. The proof of that is in this very thread. Because the Real Presence is unbiblical & yet we see arguments for it.

zerinus

 

[MelanieAnne]

Catholics don’t really accept the Bible. Or at least, they don’t accept it if it conflicts in any way with their Apostate theology. The proof of that is in this very thread. Because the Real Presence is unbiblical & yet we see arguments for it.

zerinus

CLICK

 

[HashemEchad]

Wow, a Jewish person comes to a Catholic Apologetics forum and tells us we don’t know much about our religion. What secret exactly is the CC holding back until after the converts have converted to the cult?

BTW, I know plenty of Jewish people, who belong synagogue and are atheist.

So do I. Fortunately, Orthodox Jews are VERY knowledgeable of our religion.

 

[LilyM]

Catholics don’t really accept the Bible. Or at least, they don’t accept it if it conflicts in any way with their Apostate theology. The proof of that is in this very thread. Because the Real Presence is unbiblical & yet we see arguments for it.

zerinus

Hello, the whole Book of Mormon is totally unbiblical, and nowhere in the Bible does Christ say that He will give a ‘new New Testament’ (aka the Book of Mormon) or any such nonsense.

 

[MelanieAnne]

I submit the Zerinus is mocking us, as evidenced with the parrot-style responses. It reminds me of what some people used to do as teenagers. It may not be enough to warrant moderator attention, but it makes the thread, or at least any exchanges with Zerinus, utterly unproductive.

 

[zerinus]

Hello, the whole Book of Mormon is totally unbiblical, and nowhere in the Bible does Christ say that He will give a ‘new New Testament’ (aka the Book of Mormon) or any such nonsense.

The whole of Catholic Theology is unbiblical. Nowhere in the Bible does it say that the Trinity is three in one and one in three, Mary is immaculately conceived, the assumption of Mary, you must pray to Mary, children who die without baptism go to hell, the Eucharist is literally transformed into the flesh and blood of Christ, priests must be celibate . . ., and a whole slew of other “such nonsense”.

zeirnus

 

[MelanieAnne]

Forum Rules ~ Conduct

“Non-Catholics are welcome to participate but must be respectful of the faith of the Catholics participating on the board.”

 

[zerinus]

Forum Rules ~ Conduct

“Non-Catholics are welcome to participate but must be respectful of the faith of the Catholics participating on the board.”

I thought those rules applied to all religions. Besides, I am critiquing Catholic doctrine. That is part of the discussion.

zerinus

 

[po18guy]

Strictly speaking, Catholics are Apostates, since their concept of Christ is at odds with scripture (the BOM, maybe…) and in agreement with mainstream Apostate Christian belief. This does not mean they are not well-intended, nor does it mean that they are insincere. It simply means they are wrong.

zerinus

Touche! However, only ONE Church was founded by Christ Himself. The other is influenced by God, but remains founded by man, in America, in the 1800s.

Challenge to zerinus: Find ONE Thing in scripture (a Catholic bible) that is contrary to the teaching of the Catholic Church, since it is the early Catholic church that produced scripture in the first place. We’re talking about the original bible here, not the edited, altered or mis-translated revisionist versions that followed hundreds of years later.

The peace of God made man, Jesus Christ, be always with you.

 

[zerinus]

Challenge to zerinus: Find ONE Thing in scripture (a Catholic bible) that is contrary to the teaching of the Catholic Church, . . .

There are loads. All you have to do is to look at my previous posts in this thread alone, nevermind about my posts in lots other threads.

zerinus