The Catholic church did not give us the Bible

[NotTooSmart]

My absolute apology for the last one I posted, I only red (i think i used that word wrong) the question, thats my response to it. lol, i didn’t read the last part where you apologized. But I stand by everything that I said. My questions still out there, do you guys agree with me?

That is ok.

For the record, this thread was never intended as an “appalling attack” on the Catholic Church. I have a “Billy Graham” like position on Catholicism which I would describe as ecumenical evangelical as opposed to separatist fundamentalist.

If this was an “appalling attack” on anything, it would be to some amateur Catholic apologists here that from my perspective thought (and still think) overreach. You perhaps do not know how these arguments come across to someone like me who likes to apply consistency tests to stuff that I hear.

But it was not worth the bother that it caused. I sort of felt swarmed over. And once it got to “you have lots of demons” and “your church is a Brothel” it really went downhill as far as my attitude towards this thread goes. Inside I was going “kill this thread…get me out of here…this is just too weird”.

Anyway that was what I meant. Whether it came out that way is debatable, (although in going back over what I wrote…outside of some phrases I could have worded differently I don’t see whereas I was “that” bad in expressing what I meant…but anyway).

Now you still probably disagree on whether some of your amateur Catholic apologists here overreach or not and whether they are consistent or not, but this disagreement does not rise to the level of “appalling attack on the Catholic church.”

 

[KindredSoul]

Before I leave, I would like to apologize for my signature and for my unforgiving attitude on this thread. It was in violation of 1 Corinthians 13:4-5 where love is not provoked and does not take into account a wrong suffered. God has been speaking to my heart over this long weekend while I have been away, and I feel it is my responsibility to make this right on my part before I leave these forums.

We have all been guilty of similar attitudes at one time or another. It can be so easy to take offense, to want to return insult for insult, mockery for mockery. We have been there. How can we not accept your sincere apology? How could we not forgive?

May God bless you as you genuinely seek to be true, which it seems that you clearly do. We may disagree, but the sincerity that I believe you possess can count for a lot.

Blessings in Christ,
KindredSoul

 

[Bill_Pick]

Thank you for your kindness.

I might be here on a “very limited” basis. I will not be starting any threads though (that was a big mistake). And I will just back out on any thread if I feel my personal tension meter rising.

It is just not worth the bother.

I guess I am probably just a very hyper-sensitive guy who does not lik…

umm…never mind.

Where do you think we got the Bible,who put it together,who said what books got put in the bible,what books got left out of the Bible,If NOT THE CATHLOIC CHURCH WHO DID

 

[jmcrae]

But it was not worth the bother that it caused. I sort of felt swarmed over. And once it got to “you have lots of demons” and “your church is a Brothel” it really went downhill as far as my attitude towards this thread goes. Inside I was going “kill this thread…get me out of here…this is just too weird”.

What was weird was equating the process of putting the Bible together (Bishops’ Councils and Papal decree - authorities of the Church fully aware of what was going on at every stage) with the priest sex scandal (pedophiles sneaking and lying their way through Seminary to get into the priesthood for the purpose of molesting children, all the while breaking Church law at almost every level, without anyone in authority in the Church knowing about it until it was too late).

 

[Bill_Pick]

The point being is that the Catholic Church did not GIVE us the scandals. The priests in question committed the sins on their own. The cover up only made matters worse.

BTW - Did you ever stop to think that maybe, just maybe, some of those priests who committed these crimes sincerely repented to their bishop, made a good confession and were absolved in the sacrament of Penance? If that had happened, the seal of confession was in effect and the bishop could not discuss the matter with anyone?

---

Faith without works is dead faith.

Works without faith are dead works.

22 When he had said this, he breathed on them; and he said to them: Receive ye the Holy Ghost. 23 Whose sins you shall forgive, they are forgiven them; and whose sins you shall retain, they are retained

 

[youngsaint]

That is ok.

For the record, this thread was never intended as an “appalling attack” on the Catholic Church. I have a “Billy Graham” like position on Catholicism which I would describe as ecumenical evangelical as opposed to separatist fundamentalist.

If this was an “appalling attack” on anything, it would be to some amateur Catholic apologists here that from my perspective thought (and still think) overreach. You perhaps do not know how these arguments come across to someone like me who likes to apply consistency tests to stuff that I hear.

But it was not worth the bother that it caused. I sort of felt swarmed over. And once it got to “you have lots of demons” and “your church is a Brothel” it really went downhill as far as my attitude towards this thread goes. Inside I was going “kill this thread…get me out of here…this is just too weird”.

Anyway that was what I meant. Whether it came out that way is debatable, (although in going back over what I wrote…outside of some phrases I could have worded differently I don’t see whereas I was “that” bad in expressing what I meant…but anyway).

Now you still probably disagree on whether some of your amateur Catholic apologists here overreach or not and whether they are consistent or not, but this disagreement does not rise to the level of “appalling attack on the Catholic church.”

Thanks, and I think it was insulting, but not as much as I made it sound like.

 

[jake23]

I am disapointed to see that the protestants on here have only showed ignorance and deceit. This only shows they are obviousely lost, otherwise they would want the truth and come home to christs catholic church.

 

[NotTooSmart]

I am disapointed to see that the protestants on here have only showed ignorance and deceit. This only shows they are obviousely lost, otherwise they would want the truth and come home to christs catholic church.

Oh Good Grief.

OK God…give me patience…RIGHT NOW…

 

[jake23]

I was thinking the same thing! Good luck on your journey to the truth! This is a good place to find it!

 

[lindalout49]

I am disapointed to see that the protestants on here have only showed ignorance and deceit. This only shows they are obviousely lost, otherwise they would want the truth and come home to christs catholic church.

I have been Protestant and I have been Catholic. What really wears me out, is the constant argument of who is right and who is wrong in the denominations. If we all agree that Jesus is our Lord and Saviour, that He died to forgive us of our sins, what have we really got to argue about??? If the Lord is for us who can be against us???

 

[KindredSoul]

It is understandable that the earlier part of this thread, and the manner in which the claims were made, was upsetting, but it has since died down. I support correcting misconceptions of the Church as much as anyone–as NTS himself can attest from our earlier discussion–but he has already courteously backed out of the discussion when he realized it wasn’t fruitful nor coming across as charitable; he also no longer seems intent on suggesting that if we disagree with his views on the Church that it is only because we are “ignoring” the facts, as he seems to realize we’ve made our case and he has made his own, with neither of us changing the other’s mind successfully. Because he has already backed off and we have previously decided we will have to agree to disagree, I fear that our beating a dead horse long after the passing just might sour his views of Catholic charity even more and make him reconsider his decision to back off from the topic.

Let us remember, too, that the catechism states that non-Catholic Christians are still Christians and suggests they will still go to Heaven if they were born outside of the Church in the first place and honestly just never conceived that the Catholic Church is the true one, something we cannot confidently judge without reading NTS’s mind, no matter how much we may honestly not understand or agree with his reasoning introduced in this thread.

Upon my friendly word, this is not a stern rebuke; this is a lengthy thread so perhaps newcomers to the thread or those who have been away from it since a certain point are understandably not aware that the discussion (as far as I know) technically ended a few pages back with something of a draw, admitting that though NTS still has his opinions (as do we), we found and admitted that neither side would probably convince the other through sheer debate, and so it ended on a much less bitter note than it began. Such agree-to-disagree truces in which neither side assumes the other was simply copping out are a rare blessing in debates that start out like this one did, and I’m just keeping it up to date with this message so that we don’t rehash or revive a topic where both sides have made their cases as best as I can tell they will be able to do so.

All the best.

Blessings in Christ,
KindredSoul

 

[Mannyfit75]

Where do you think we got the Bible,who put it together,who said what books got put in the bible,what books got left out of the Bible,If NOT THE CATHLOIC CHURCH WHO DID

In addition to that, Who added the chapter and verses of the Bible? The manuscript does not have chapter and verses. Monks add them to make it easy to make some reference… and tell me what church did these Monks belong to?

 

[reteeks21]

I am disapointed to see that the protestants on here have only showed ignorance and deceit. This only shows they are obviousely lost, otherwise they would want the truth and come home to christs catholic church.

Get over yourself. As I’ve said all along, this sort of attitude is why some don’t want to join the RCC, and when Protestants act this way nothing else is ever accomplished.

 

[jake23]

Get over yourself. As I’ve said all along, this sort of attitude is why some don’t want to join the RCC, and when Protestants act this way nothing else is ever accomplished.

LOL! being disapointed in protestant ignorance means I should get over myself? You should put some thaught in your posts so they make some sense! Your hostility is a great example of that ignorance. Poeple do not join the catholic church either because they refuse to see the truth, or they are simply uneducated in christianity! I am sorry if your are offended and deslike the posts from Catholics that proclaim the truth, however we are not here to tell you whatever you want, we are her only to speak the truth nomatter how much one might deslike it! Good luck and I will pray for you!

 

[OneTrueCathApos]

Get over yourself. As I’ve said all along, this sort of attitude is why some don’t want to join the RCC, and when Protestants act this way nothing else is ever accomplished.

Get over what, the truth??? Protestants have a hard time with the truth.

 

[Hisalone]

To be christian is to be Catholic! You have allot to learn and it sounds you have a long journey to find a real relationship with Christ! You cannot be close to him and ignore the church he gave us!

Yes Im a little c catholic.When Christ indwells your heart and His Spirit abides in you, you are His, part of His body part of His Church. When this happens it becomes crystal clear that Catholics have nothing on us.

 

[Hisalone]

I am sorry if your are offended and deslike the posts from Catholics that proclaim the truth, however we are not here to tell you whatever you want, we are her only to speak the truth nomatter how much one might deslike it! Good luck and I will pray for you!

Could you point to a post where you proclaim the truth. I certainly havent seen it.

 

[KathleenGee]

No one excuses abusive priests…who shouldn’t have been ordained in the first place.

Note the behavior has been happening primarily in English speaking countries. And also try to do a search with USA October 2007 that revealed the sex abuse in secular public schools is 100 times far worse than the Catholic clergy.

A request is coming out recently from the Vatican for people to realize there is far more sex abuse in Protestant churches as well as some synagogues in the USA.

When a culture becomes obsessed with sex, it has lost its faith in God…and people today can’t even imagine how teens in my time and before were not sexually promiscuous like people today.

Note as well that the Church, through Pope Paul VI warned the world of the use of contraception that would facilitate premarital sex, abortion, adultery, materialism of otherwise good married couples deciding not to have children, as well as the STD’s so prevalent among 25% of the teen population…So much for sexual indulgence vs the vast majority of celibate clergy in the USA…95%…who are very happy they are priests.

It is so easy to know the Church because of the requirement of mandatory celibacy…It does not cause pedophilia…the vast majority of cases were homosexual…and this was the concern of the laity for many years in local serminaries allowing homosexual men into candidacy for ordination.

There are those, hetero or homosexual clergy who are celibate and remain so. ‘For the sake of the Gospel…’

 

[OneTrueCathApos]

Yes Im a little c catholic.When Christ indwells your heart and His Spirit abides in you, you are His, part of His body part of His Church. When this happens it becomes crystal clear that Catholics have nothing on us.

There is no seperate little “c” than a big “C”. You are either a Catholic or not. We don’t say Protestants are a little “p” and a big “P”.

 

[KathleenGee]

In regards to those who have a hard time thinking the Catholic Church put the books of the Bible together because of the clergy scandals…

Consider the vast majority of sexually indulgent people in this world compared to the vast majority of Catholic priests who aren’t.