The Catholic church did not give us the Bible

[Presence]

Good post Javl. For some reason that line of thought didn’t exactly key in to my head…there was no such thing as a bible before the Catholic Church played it’s part.

Thank you Catholic Church.

 

[jmcrae]

No. The OO has one set of Deutero books. The EO has another unique set. The CC has another unique set. No more than one denomination agrees on the set of approved DEUTERO books. There’s no agreement beyond ONE denomination for any “set” of them. But all that is moot to the question of this thread. Did The Catholic Church (not the Jews, not the OO, not the EO, not God, not penmen, but the specific, particular The Catholic Church) give us all the material of Scripture from Genesis 1:1 - Revelation 22:21, all the words therein?

Now, back to the subject of this thread: The often made Catholic claim that The Catholic Church gave us all the corpus of material from Genesis 1:1 through Revelation 22:21: the whole Bible and all therein.

And again, you are still confused. The Bible is not the Scriptures. The Bible is a container into which we put the Scriptures. We did that in 397 AD, after 200 years of discernment.

On what date did the Baptists discern the canon of the Scriptures (without peeking at the Catholic answer to this question) and where are the notes from that meeting?

On what date did the United Church of Canada discern the canon of the Scriptures (without peeking at the Catholic answer to this question) and where are the notes from that meeting?

On what date did the Methodists discern the canon of the Scriptures (without peeking at the Catholic answer to this question) and where are the notes from that meeting?

On what date did the Anglicans discern the canon of the Scriptures (without peeking at the Catholic answer to this question) and where are the notes from that meeting?

On what date did the Presbyterians discern the canon of the Scriptures (without peeking at the Catholic answer to this question) and where are the notes from that meeting?

etc. …

 

[Javl]

Good post Javl. For some reason that line of thought didn’t exactly key in to my head…there was no such thing as a bible before the Catholic Church played it’s part.

Thank you Catholic Church.

Thank you. It’s a bit difficult to get one to understand when “my mind is made up, don’t confuse me with facts”. It should be noted that the Jews did/do not have a bible. Their collection of scriptures is the Torah, with the law, and/or the Tanakh. Neither of which is claimed to be a Bible. So How could the Bible have existed before the CC gave it to Christendom? God Bless.

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

 

[Irish_Catholic_1]

The Catholic Church finalized the canon of sacrd scripture by sifting through all the different scriptures and decided which were inspired and which were not. The ones that were inspired were put together became known as the Bible.

Well said.

To CJ: …and when the Catholic Church finalized the canon of sacred scripture, it is at that point that the Church “gave” us the Bible. That does not mean that the Church wrote every word on its pages, a claim which you are falsley trying to attribute to us. It means that the Church gave us the list of books known as the Bible.

Get it?

Remember this post CJ. It is the answer to your question. From now on, every time you make the false claim that your question is not being answered, I am going to copy and paste this same post, even if I have to do it a thousand times.

 

[eccles]

One matter I want to mention is how the Roman Catholic Church (I left in the 1970’s) seemed to avoid most of the OT. I went to a Jesuit College for 12 years and we did Genesis and Exodus and sklpped the rest and did only the NT. That was rthe only book we had - not the “Holy Bible” but just the New Testament.

For most of this year I have been researching the origin of Judeo/Christianity. I read all there is to know about the Council of Nicea. Many of you should know what really happened there. I know stuff the Church does not like. As I am on Trial here, I wont go into that. I don’t want the CDF knocking at my door.

I bought a bible and read Genesis to Kings II. I hated it so much I stopped reading there. Now I know why the Church down plays from Exodus to Kings II. Need I say the Genocide and Slaughter carried out by the Hebrews and God against the peoples in the Levant.

I certainly do not have that bible any more and never want to ever read one again.

 

[Javl]

One matter I want to mention is how the Roman Catholic Church (I left in the 1970’s) seemed to avoid most of the OT. I went to a Jesuit College for 12 years and we did Genesis and Exodus and sklpped the rest and did only the NT. That was rthe only book we had - not the “Holy Bible” but just the New Testament.

For most of this year I have been researching the origin of Judeo/Christianity. I read all there is to know about the Council of Nicea. Many of you should know what really happened there. I know stuff the Church does not like. As I am on Trial here, I wont go into that. I don’t want the CDF knocking at my door.

I bought a bible and read Genesis to Kings II. I hated it so much I stopped reading there. Now I know why the Church down plays from Exodus to Kings II. Need I say the Genocide and Slaughter carried out by the Hebrews and God against the peoples in the Levant.

I certainly do not have that bible any more and never want to ever read one again.

May I say that before you start to condemn the Jews about the “slaughter” in the Levant, please get yourself a copy of “the Writings of Josephus” and read the history of the Jews.
Also, whatever God does He does for a reason. It is all part of the Divine Plan which was formulated long before we all came into existence. Pray to the Holy Spirit for enlightment to undestand and do not reject Him or anything of His at the peril of losing you soul. God Bless.

P.S. Welcome to the forums. There is much to learn here.

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

 

[eccles]

May I say that before you start to condemn the Jews about the “slaughter” in the Levant, please get yourself a copy of “the Writings of Josephus” and read the history of the Jews.
Also, whatever God does He does for a reason. It is all part of the Divine Plan which was formulated long before we all came into existence. Pray to the Holy Spirit for enlightment to undestand and do not reject Him or anything of His at the peril of losing you soul. God Bless.

P.S. Welcome to the forums. There is much to learn here.

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

Javi,
I have had the writings of Josephus for quote a while now. It seems that he copied much of his “Antiquities of the Jews” from the Tanakh. I recognized many passages from Exodus in his writings.

Also in Book XVIII of “Antiquities” the is a short reference to Jesus of Nazareth which as been proved by biblical scholars to be later forged Christian additions.

Would you please obey the rules of this Forum and don’t preach to me. I have never preached anywhere on the Forum and never will. You have your beliefs and I have mine. No prosletyzing will change my mind ever.

 

[benedictus2]

Because, so far - no Catholic has answered it. Did The Catholic Church (not Jews, not Christians, not God, not The Orthodox Church - but specifically, singularly, particularly The Catholic Church) “give” (not acknowledge or choose) “the Bible” (all the corpus of materials therein - the words from Genesis 1:1 - Revelation 22:21)? That’s the often made claim: “The Catholic Church gave the Bible to us.” Yes or No?

Yes she did. Before there were books floating around. No defintive canon as such. The Catholic Church these set number of books are

My Catholic teachers said no. In fact, they ridiculed this they admitted often made claim.

Probably teachers who are ignorant of the plain fact.
So consider yourself lucky. You get a second chance to finally learn the truth.

They taught me that GOD gave us the Bible, that GOD (not The Catholic Church) wrote it via His penmen (not The Catholic Church).

Sorry but this much wiggling will not get you anywhere. Whether you like it or not. The Catholic Church was established by Christ and it is through her that we now have the Bible.

Think about this (if you can). Jesus is all powerful. He could have just communicated spiritually all this things to individual persons but He didn;t do that. He could have sat down and written it Himself. But He did not do that. What did He do? He built a church. That is JESUS WILL, that His Truth will be communicated via His Church.

And that most of it was acknowledged as Scripture CENTURIES before The Catholic Church even came into existence, and all of it before The Council of Hippo or Carthage. History agrees with them, and disagrees with the often made claim.

No. History agrees with us. As a matter of fact, I have even posted the history which you have conveniently not read. Now why is that? Afraid of the truth?

 

[benedictus2]

But don’t you understand??? You’ve received the answer many times over… THERE WAS NO SUCH THING AS THE BIBLE before the Catholic Church assembled the inspired Scriptures to assemble the Bible.

You can scream that till you are blue in the face, but believe me he will still not get it. I have been trying to painstakingly explain that in another thread complete with timelines.

Some people prefer to remain blind.

 

[eccles]

“Whether you like it or not. The Catholic Church was established by Christ”

Let us be correct here. The CATHOLIC Church was not established by Christ. It was established at the Council of Nicea 325CE chaired by Constantine I to be known as the Holy Roman Catholic and Apostolic Church and to be the one and only official Religion of the Roman Empire. Even the Catholic Encyclopaedia mentions that.

Jesus the Nazarene began Christianity, or to be more correct, Saul - St. Paul. Forget the “Thou art Peter the Rock” etc. The unknown authors of the Gospels that were not written earlier than 40 years after the Crucifixion did not hear Jesus say that. Hearsay evidence is not admissable in a Court of Law.

 

[benedictus2]

One matter I want to mention is how the Roman Catholic Church (I left in the 1970’s) seemed to avoid most of the OT. I went to a Jesuit College for 12 years and we did Genesis and Exodus and sklpped the rest and did only the NT. That was rthe only book we had - not the “Holy Bible” but just the New Testament.

Completely baseless. The Jesuit college you went to IS NOT the Catholic Church.
As a matter of fact, only the Catholic Church goes through the entire Bible in its Liturgy. In a span of 3 years, if you attend Mass daily, you will have gone through the entire Bible.

For most of this year I have been researching the origin of Judeo/Christianity. I read all there is to know about the Council of Nicea. Many of you should know what really happened there. I know stuff the Church does not like. As I am on Trial here, I wont go into that. I don’t want the CDF knocking at my door.

I bought a bible and read Genesis to Kings II. I hated it so much I stopped reading there. Now I know why the Church down plays from Exodus to Kings II. Need I say the Genocide and Slaughter carried out by the Hebrews and God against the peoples in the Levant.

I certainly do not have that bible any more and never want to ever read one again.

The Bible needs to be read through the lens that is Jesus Christ.

 

[benedictus2]

“Whether you like it or not. The Catholic Church was established by Christ”

Let us be correct here. The CATHOLIC Church was not established by Christ. It was established at the Council of Nicea 325CE chaired by Constantine I to be known as the Holy Roman Catholic and Apostolic Church and to be the one and only official Religion of the Roman Empire. Even the Catholic Encyclopaedia mentions that. {/quote]
Nope. Compeltely wrong there.

http://www.davidmacd.com/catholic/timeline_of_catholic_church.htm

Jesus the Nazarene began Christianity, or to be more correct, Saul - St. Paul. Forget the “Thou art Peter the Rock” etc. The unknown authors of the Gospels that were not written earlier than 40 years after the Crucifixion did not hear Jesus say that. Hearsay evidence is not admissable in a Court of Law.

 

[PRmerger]

. I went to a Jesuit College for 12 years and we did Genesis and Exodus and sklpped the rest and did only the NT. That was rthe only book we had - not the “Holy Bible” but just the New Testament…

This is not just a Catholic thing. I just went to an elaborate Christmas production at an evangelical “mega” church and they, curiously, passed out mini bibles that contained only Proverbs and the NT.

That was a nice little gift.

But why Proverbs? That’s just as arbitrary as giving out a book of only the Pauline epistles.

Quite odd, IMHO!

 

[AmericanJosiah]

AJ it’s like you’re trying desperately to find an answer that only you believe in (well, maybe a few un-informed others). Are you trying to convince yourself that you don’t accept the Churches authority, and that nothing is due in gratitude to the Church for giving us the bible as-we-know-it?

Are you trying to change the subject to whether one alone can/should claim all power for self alone? If so, that’s not the issue before us.

The question is whether the specific, singular, particular institution today called The Catholic Church gave us the Bible - every word of it, from Genesis 1:1 - Revelation 22:21? Yes or no?

I say no.

And come on, you’re smart, you know how the Church works, could you even find the Church making this claim for us? Because, as you know, it really doesn’t matter if we have some random Catholics running around making this claim, you should know we all make these sort of mistakes.

Exactly as I’ve noted in this thread. This very often made claim is by numerous CATHOLICS but I’ve never seen where The Catholic Church makes this claim. In fact, as I noted, all my Catholic teachers not only rejected the claim but one actually ridiculed it as “absurd.”

Here’s what I believe. I believe that GOD gave us the Bible, that every word in it comes from GOD - conveyed via His penmen. Here’s what The Handbook of the Catholic Faith says (page 136), “The Bible is the very words of God. It was inspired by God Himself. Exactly what does this mean? It means that God is the author of the Bible. God guided the penmen to write as He desired and the words are His.” I agree.

Now, it is a relevant subject how believers (Jewish and Christian) came to accept Scriptures as such (because, except for The Ten Commandments, none came directly and dramatically from God in an immediate sense). Jews came to accept the Pentetuch a long, long time ago - we really don’t know HOW this happened. Later, it seems the historical materials were gathered, edited together in new ways, and embraced as Scripture. Again, we don’t know how that happened (or even when). Later, the wisdom lit and Prophetic books came to be accepted - not universally even in Jesus’ day. Again, we don’t really know how. The Greek translation (and what it included) probably played a role - but no one really knows to what extent. The Council of Jamnia in 90 AD probably played a role, too - but again, we don’t know to what extent “controversies” were actually settled by that. For the New Testament, we know even less about how and when this happened, but since Christianity was very informal and was largely an underground, illegal movement, it’s not surprising it was a very informal process with not much of a “paper trail” - making any history of this almost entirely impossible. It seems that Paul’s 13 books were embraced as such by the late 60’s (Peter even refers to them, unnamed however, around 66 AD). The 4 Gospels + Acts + 1 Peter and 1 John seem to all have been embraced as such by the end of the First Century - or at least it seems so. That means 20 of the 27 books of the NT were embraced as Scripture by the year 100 or so (roughly 2/3’s of it) but then some not now so regarded were floating around embraced as such, too. The other 7 rise, and the others fall - slowly, during the next 100-200 years. But some (especially the Revelation of John and less so, James) continue to be just a bit controversal, Revelation into the early middle ages. We just don’t have much documentation here, it was a very informal, “grass-roots” development happening “underground” because Christianity was a very informal, underground movement.

Once a formal structure is given (largely by Rome) in the 4th century, issues arose over the “approved” lectionary. Three regional meetings (none ecumenical councils and none exactly addressing this issue) happened in the late 4th century on this - these often regarded as of “The Catholic Church” by some Catholics (that’s debatable!) but the undeniable reality is: none of them “formed” or “created” anything - they simply embraced the consensus that already existed (the ONLY possible exception is the book of Revelation- embraced by the last two of those regional meetings but there wasn’t a solid popular consensus on that at that time; those meetings didn’t resolve that, however). The point is: NO meeting “created” or “gave” the list of NT books. It MIGHT be argued that some affirmed or acknowledged the list - but that’s a whole other issue.

I agree with history, my Catholic teachers and with The Handbook of The Catholic Faith in this matter. I disagree that the specific, singular, particular institution known today by the legal name, “The Catholic Church” gave all the material in the Bible - from Genesis 1:1 - Revelation 22:21. I find the claim historically absurd and actually a contradiction of the CC’s own doctrine of Scripture. It is like so many things: There are this big claims made by some Catholics and just repeated - over and over and over and over - copied/pasted, but I honestly think no Catholic stops and thinks about it before posting or saying it YET AGAIN.

Thank you.

Pax

• Josiah

.

 

[Stephen168]

“Whether you like it or not. The Catholic Church was established by Christ”

Let us be correct here. The CATHOLIC Church was not established by Christ. It was established at the Council of Nicea 325CE chaired by Constantine I to be known as the Holy Roman Catholic and Apostolic Church and to be the one and only official Religion of the Roman Empire. Even the Catholic Encyclopaedia mentions that.

Jesus the Nazarene began Christianity, or to be more correct, Saul - St. Paul. Forget the “Thou art Peter the Rock” etc. The unknown authors of the Gospels that were not written earlier than 40 years after the Crucifixion did not hear Jesus say that. Hearsay evidence is not admissable in a Court of Law.

What happened at the Council of Nicea that turn Christianity into Catholicism?

 

[jake23]

Youre simply disregarding simple fact! Even the protestant creator Luther admits that the Catholic church gave us the Bible. You can accept it or not however this is the truth! all of the scriptures, the holy catholic church picked out what we believe to be correct, put them together and tada! The Bible! This is simple historic fact that is not disputed by historians, perhaps nutty protestants who self proclaim themselves as historians never the less this is the truth! I myself who went to Liberty Universitty to become a pastor before I became catholic knew this and there is no evidence any way what so ever to dispute this fact! As far as the Old testament that was already put together in its own form was accepted into the Bible because Christ aknowledge it and is used as a reflection of Christs coming. So… since everyone here is educated and truthful enough to accept the truth, I would suggest that you give up convincing catholics on a catholic website to believe youre crazed false opinion! No room in here for false Josiahs!

 

[AmericanJosiah]

Josiah:

Exactly as I’ve noted in this thread. This very often made claim is by numerous CATHOLICS but I’ve never seen where The Catholic Church makes this claim. In fact, as I noted, all my Catholic teachers not only rejected the claim but one actually ridiculed it as “absurd.”

Here’s what I believe. I believe that GOD gave us the Bible, that every word in it comes from GOD - conveyed via His penmen. Here’s what The Handbook of the Catholic Faith says (page 136), “The Bible is the very words of God. It was inspired by God Himself. Exactly what does this mean? It means that God is the author of the Bible. God guided the penmen to write as He desired and the words are His.” I agree.

Now, it is a relevant subject how believers (Jewish and Christian) came to accept Scriptures as such (because, except for The Ten Commandments, none came directly and dramatically from God in an immediate sense). Jews came to accept the Pentetuch a long, long time ago - we really don’t know HOW this happened. Later, it seems the historical materials were gathered, edited together in new ways, and embraced as Scripture. Again, we don’t know how that happened (or even when). Later, the wisdom lit and Prophetic books came to be accepted - not universally even in Jesus’ day. Again, we don’t really know how. The Greek translation (and what it included) probably played a role - but no one really knows to what extent. The Council of Jamnia in 90 AD probably played a role, too - but again, we don’t know to what extent “controversies” were actually settled by that. For the New Testament, we know even less about how and when this happened, but since Christianity was very informal and was largely an underground, illegal movement, it’s not surprising it was a very informal process with not much of a “paper trail” - making any history of this almost entirely impossible. It seems that Paul’s 13 books were embraced as such by the late 60’s (Peter even refers to them, unnamed however, around 66 AD). The 4 Gospels + Acts + 1 Peter and 1 John seem to all have been embraced as such by the end of the First Century - or at least it seems so. That means 20 of the 27 books of the NT were embraced as Scripture by the year 100 or so (roughly 2/3’s of it) but then some not now so regarded were floating around embraced as such, too. The other 7 rise, and the others fall - slowly, during the next 100-200 years. But some (especially the Revelation of John and less so, James) continue to be just a bit controversal, Revelation into the early middle ages. We just don’t have much documentation here, it was a very informal, “grass-roots” development happening “underground” because Christianity was a very informal, underground movement.

Once a formal structure is given (largely by Rome) in the 4th century, issues arose over the “approved” lectionary. Three regional meetings (none ecumenical councils and none exactly addressing this issue) happened in the late 4th century on this - these often regarded as of “The Catholic Church” by some Catholics (that’s debatable!) but the undeniable reality is: none of them “formed” or “created” anything - they simply embraced the consensus that already existed (the ONLY possible exception is the book of Revelation- embraced by the last two of those regional meetings but there wasn’t a solid popular consensus on that at that time; those meetings didn’t resolve that, however). The point is: NO meeting “created” or “gave” the list of NT books. It MIGHT be argued that some affirmed or acknowledged the list - but that’s a whole other issue.

I agree with history, my Catholic teachers and with The Handbook of The Catholic Faith in this matter. I disagree that the specific, singular, particular institution known today by the legal name, “The Catholic Church” gave all the material in the Bible - from Genesis 1:1 - Revelation 22:21. I find the claim historically absurd and actually a contradiction of the CC’s own doctrine of Scripture. It is like so many things: There are this big claims made by some Catholics and just repeated - over and over and over and over - copied/pasted, but I honestly think no Catholic stops and thinks about it before posting or saying it YET AGAIN.

.

Youre simply disregarding simple fact! Even the protestant creator Luther admits that the Catholic church gave us the Bible.

1. Referenced quote, please.
2. Moot. The issue of this thread is not what Luther thought, it’s whether it is historically documented that The Catholic Church gave us all the material of the Bible - from Genesis 1:1 - Revelation 22:21. Not God, not Christians, not Jews - but the specific, singular, particular institution that has the legal moniker of The Catholic Church? If you desire to insist such is the case, then being with the oldest part of the Bible (generally regarded to be The Ten Commandments written around 1400 BC) and continue with all the material through Revelation and show that such was has its origin in The Catholic Church.

This is simple historic fact that is not disputed by historians

Actuallly, I doubt there is a historian alive who states it is a FACT that The Catholic Church gave us all the material in the Bible (in fact, I doubt any would insist it gave us even a single word, even a single letter of it).

No room in here for false Josiahs!

Okay, SOMEONE should take up the Catholic claim here and historically prove that all the Bible comes to us solely and directly from The Catholic Church. Begin with The Ten Commandments and proceed through all the material of the Bible, Genesis 1:1 - Revelation 22:21, and show that it all came directly, specifically and exclusively from the singular, particular, individual institution that today has the legal name of The Catholic Church.

.

.

 

[jake23]

Sigh! The Catholic church is the first church and are the original christians! The universal church was the only existance of the christian faith as simple as that! What evidence do you have that the catholic church did not create the Bible? And I agree that God gave us the Bible, but did so through the catholic church! Anything else claiming to be from god is likely counterfeit! What catholic teachers taught you that the catholic church did not give us the Bible? Allot of the pinman as you call them who wrote down the scripture are some what unknown however the catholic church is and was the only church! I know Paul was and is definelty a catholic Bishop. Remember also the word existed verbally passed on from the catholic Bishops starting with the apostles (Bishops) Since you are so opnionated on the matter, I want you to tell me what information is it that you have that suggest the Bible did not come from the catholic church?

 

[Tantum_ergo]

Yes, you know, I don’t think you ever did tell us, Josiah, exactly how God ‘gave’ us the Scripture. Did you break it down for us with:

The Jews gave the Old Testament.
Various Christians (but don’t **dare **call them Catholic Christians because according to Josiah "Catholic Christians"did not exist then) wrote the New Testament.

And finally, the Holy Spirit magically made all the stuff that these authors (who were only ‘pen-men’ anyway and just took God’s ‘dictation’ verbatim from God) just whisk itself into a nice, neat vellum Bible that Jerome (once again, taking his orders ‘verbatim’ from God like a good little robot) proclaimed using the patented “Voice-O-God” which everybody living recognized magically as being “the real God” accepted as “God has given us THE BIBLE”. . .except, of course, that Jerome fought against some of the books and didn’t want to put some in but he was ‘roboticized’ and did it anyway–somehow even though for 1000 years Christians had accepted it, some wise Protestants recognized that briefly Jerome had been possessed by “Voice-O-Satan” and that those books, even though they were in the Scripture (and still are, and not in the Catholic Bible, the Orthodox have them and more). . .were not ‘supposed to be’.

So either 1500 years ago God ‘gave’ us the Scripture and everybody knew it was a direct 'package from God alone". . but somehow a bunch of ‘extras’ got in and nobody knew they weren’t from God, or if they knew, they were possessed by satan and made to put them in anyway–OR we have the far more believable scenario that the Holy Spirit guided various men to write God’s word over a period of centuries, and then He guided the members of His Catholic Church to be able to discern, inerrantly, which of the many, many books and documents out there belonged in the Bible.

 

[AmericanJosiah]

Sigh! The Catholic church is the first church and are the original christians!

Let’s pretend such is true (there’s ZERO substantiation for such, but let’s proceed anyway). Then how did The Catholic Church give us The Ten Commandments (unless your Bible deletes that part)? Historians date the “giving” of The Ten Commandments at around 1400 BC, so if The Catholic Church gave them, then where’s your historic documentation that the specific, particular, individual institution which today has the legal moniker of The Catholic Church existed in 1400 BC and that it - exclusively and particularly - gave those? Not God, not Moses - The Catholic Church. And they were accepted as Scripture not by people or Hebrews or Moses - but specifically, solely, particularly, exclusively, The Catholic Church in 1400 BC?

Remember also the word existed verbally passed on from the catholic Bishops starting with the apostles (Bishops) Since you are so opnionated on the matter, I want you to tell me what information is it that you have that suggest the Bible did not come from the catholic church?

So, is it your position that all the material from Genesis 1:1 - Revelation 22:21 was unwritten (including The Ten Commandments) but was just passed on verbally by Bishops ordained an installed by The Catholic Church since Creation? Or at least since 1400 BC?

What suggests to me that The Catholic Church did not give the Bible?

1. The Catholic Church can’t write. No denomination can. Only people (and God) can.
2. I beleive what my Catholic teachers taught me: “The Bible is the very words of God and no greater assurance of credence can be given. The Bible was inspired by God. Exactly what does this mean? It means that GOD is the author of the Bible. God guided the penmen to write as He wished.” (The Handbook of The Catholic Church page 136). It means GOD - not The CAtholic Church - is the one who gave the Bible.
3. Most of the Bible pre-dates when even The Catholic Church itself claims that it came into existence, making the claim impossible - by the Catholic Church’s own admission.
4. While we don’t know the penmen of many of the Books of the Bible, NONE claim that it came from The Catholic Church.

Here’s what I believe. I believe that GOD gave us the Bible, that every word in it comes from GOD - conveyed via His penmen. Here’s what The Handbook of the Catholic Faith says (page 136), that’s what my Catholic teachers said, and I agree.

Now, it is a relevant subject how believers (Jewish and Christian over a period of over 1500 years) came to accept Scriptures as such (because, except for The Ten Commandments, none came directly and dramatically from God in an immediate sense). Jews came to accept the Pentetuch a long, long time ago - we really don’t know HOW this happened. Later, it seems the historical materials were gathered, edited together in new ways, and embraced as Scripture. Again, we don’t know how that happened (or even when). Later, the wisdom lit and Prophetic books came to be accepted - not universally even in Jesus’ day. Again, we don’t really know how. The Greek translation (and what it included) probably played a role - but no one really knows to what extent. The Council of Jamnia in 90 AD probably played a role, too - but again, we don’t know to what extent “controversies” were actually settled by that. For the New Testament, we know even less about how and when this happened, but since Christianity was very informal and was largely an underground, illegal movement, it’s not surprising it was a very informal process with not much of a “paper trail” - making any history of this almost entirely impossible. It seems that Paul’s 13 books were embraced as such by the late 60’s (Peter even refers to them, unnamed however, around 66 AD). The 4 Gospels + Acts + 1 Peter and 1 John seem to all have been embraced as such by the end of the First Century - or at least it seems so. That means 20 of the 27 books of the NT were embraced as Scripture by the year 100 or so (roughly 2/3’s of it) but then some not now so regarded were floating around embraced as such, too. The other 7 rise, and the others fall - slowly, during the next 100-200 years. But some (especially the Revelation of John and less so, James) continue to be just a bit controversal, Revelation into the early middle ages. We just don’t have much documentation here, it was a very informal, “grass-roots” development happening “underground” because Christianity was a very informal, underground movement.

Once a formal structure is given (largely by Rome) in the 4th century, issues arose over the “approved” lectionary. Three regional meetings (none ecumenical councils and none exactly addressing this issue) happened in the late 4th century on this - these often regarded as of “The Catholic Church” by some Catholics (that’s debatable!) but the undeniable reality is: none of them “formed” or “created” anything - they simply embraced the consensus that already existed (the ONLY possible exception is the book of Revelation- embraced by the last two of those regional meetings but there wasn’t a solid popular consensus on that at that time; those meetings didn’t resolve that, however). The point is: NO meeting “created” or “gave” the list of NT books. It MIGHT be argued that some affirmed or acknowledged the list - but that’s a whole other issue.

I agree with history, my Catholic teachers and with The Handbook of The Catholic Faith in this matter. I disagree that the specific, singular, particular institution known today by the legal name, “The Catholic Church” gave all the material in the Bible - from Genesis 1:1 - Revelation 22:21. I find the claim historically absurd and actually a contradiction of the CC’s own doctrine of Scripture.

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