The Catholic church did not give us the Bible

[Bill_Pick]

Bill:

I hate to inform you, but you have reached your quota of compliments to be added to my compliment file. Time to let some fresh blood in.

What ,is the question to hard and what is going to happen after I reach you quota…

 

[NotTooSmart]

I wonder.

I think we have reached the point where we can say,
“NTS believes what he says is perfectly logical and will not change his position.”

Well, if that is so, then all that will happen is that he will continue to state X no matter how often we show X is false. Whatever he’s feeling in regard to this (which could be anything from self-satisfaction to bewilderment to anger, or indeed just about any emotion one can think of) is going to intensify. If he’s angered by the rebuttals, he’ll get more angry. If he’s self satisfied because he thinks he ‘got to’ people, he’ll be more self satisfied.

However, I think there is something different that we can try, and I got a clue from his obvious reaction in showing the "unchristian name-calling’ he had received from what he’s going to assume are disgruntled Catholics.

So here’s what I propose:

Let’s not argue any more. Really. We’ve given the arguments over and over. Simply say, “We addressed that point already. Please re-read the thread. Thank you.”

And let’s not make ANY disparging remarks whatsoever. No matter what the provocation.

Let’s simply love NTS the person (regardless of how we might feel about his words or actions). Without being hypocritical or accepting as ‘right’ what we know is wrong, we can love NTS for simply existing as a child of God, love him for his attempts to know God, and wish him well on his journey to God. Let’s acknowledge that even if people thought they were ‘justified’ to make personal remarks that were in any way unChristian, that we are sorry that they did so and hurt NTS.

Let’s try it.

Thanx.

I honestly am getting tired of this thread myself. I have said about everything that I can say and any more would be repeating myself.

I think I am going to take a breather for a few days, weeks, months, or years.

Arguing Christianity over the internet is just too mentally tiring and not worth it.

I think though, that when I think if Catholics I will continue to remember my friends from my youth (whom I mentioned here) that I loved and continue to love very much. And I will let the negatives from this place go.

But no, I don’t have any interest in becoming Catholic.

 

[KindredSoul]

Thanx.

I honestly am getting tired of this thread myself. I have said about everything that I can say and any more would be repeating myself.

I say this with no animosity or adversarial intent: If you feel the same way we feel, then the debate would seem fruitless for both sides. You feel that you’ve said everything you can say and would be repeating yourself, and we feel the exact same way on our side.

So, since we both feel the same way, perhaps we (by which I mean the two sides of the debate) can call a truce for this particular thread and move on without considering that truce to be a sign that either side was losing ground? What say you?

Blessings in Christ,
KindredSoul

P.S. I agree with you…debating religion can be very exhausting. The “faith” element ensures that, no matter how reasonable a given faith may be, it is impossible to debate it in the same clean and easy way one would debate, say whether or not blue is blue. I can certainly, therefore, relate to your exhaustion!

 

[Bill_Pick]

Yes lets pray for NTS, all Christian know about the inguisition and is NTS can read he know about the child Abuce case. All Cathloic know of both it was a diff time in history and cathloic are ashame of but the people that had the inuisition are all dead and the Church has been working on the pther from day one, NTS is talking about both to embarrass Cathloics and he has no logic to what he is saying.
Lets all pray and see if that will help him

 

[Wildkit]

Thanx.

I honestly am getting tired of this thread myself. I have said about everything that I can say and any more would be repeating myself.

I think I am going to take a breather for a few days, weeks, months, or years.

Arguing Christianity over the internet is just too mentally tiring and not worth it.

I think though, that when I think if Catholics I will continue to remember my friends from my youth (whom I mentioned here) that I loved and continue to love very much. And I will let the negatives from this place go.

But no, I don’t have any interest in becoming Catholic.

But we enjoy running our mouth!

 

[NotTooSmart]

But we enjoy running our mouth!

Sigh (called kicking one out the door when he was leaving anyway)

What a piece of work. You sure did choose your username well.

You make zero sense and you know it,

yet you just want to troll and (successfully) get a rise out of people for who knows what reason?

I don’t think you even care about those that were abused:

Yes, people like yourself are the gates of HELL who try to put down the Catholic Church and have been doing so for centuries and yet, “IT” still stands and yes Jesus Christ is correct WHEN HE SPEAKS ABOUT YOU, yes YOU, that YOU will not prevail over it!

Asking question as this I,l bet you got good mark in History and it looks like you not much at reading a new paper or are you just slow.

God help this person and keep him/her in your prays, The good abut this post is the person handle and boy it is right on the money NotTooSmart,say bye

Well your name is NotToo Smart and you think you are a hitwit and no one is argee with you.

Like the name said NotTooSmart this person got this question fron some Penteecostal site and may be the dumbist question I have ever seen on this board and makes no sense at all. Non of the sexual abuse Priseit are not living at the time of the inquistion and the people from the sex Abuse are not living …So the right person has ask the right question NOT TOO SMART

Ok. I’ve been reading some of nottoosmart posts. And first let me say his name suits him/her to a tee.He/she seems very jealous of the Church.

Yes we have problems with pedophile riest", but at least we are dealing with it. Unlike like the people like nottoosmart. Who point fingers and yell “Look at them” in a hope of drawing attention away from their own faults.

And you nottoosmart" can go to your Brothel you call a church.

But we enjoy running our mouth!

'll keep you in my prayers, you have a lot of demons.

 

[jen_fla]

Well thank you. My primary mission here is to learn and evaluate. I do not have a well formed opinion of the Catholic church. I have heard everything from Jack Chick to Billy Graham.

I really just started this thread to point out an inconsistency I have seen and to measure your responses to this. The compliments that I have received go into my evaluation. You see, how the church behaves is an important metric in my thinking.

well i can see your point but every human sins and even the best of us have our days where we want to lash out. again, that applies to everyone. it’s funny but when i miss Mass i can feel myself sort of slipping out of that closeness with God and being immersed in the pulls of the world. then i realize i am being selfish and am not happy so i make my confession, get myself back to Church and partake in the Eucharist. i don’t know how to explain it other than the Eucharist gives me the strength to live closer to what Christ wants. it’s a gradual process though, sometimes i feel as though i move 3 feet forward and fall back 2, sometimes 20, but i still pick myself back up and keep trying. i mean let’s face it, sometimes it’s really hard to follow Christ. He asks us to be Holy, not just your average nice guy.

Well that is not how it comes across, to be honest. But if I were a member of a group that believed itself to be the One True Church and every one else to be inferior, it would be sooo easy for me to cop the attitude that surfaces in many posts here.

oh you made me laugh, but i guess i shouldn’t. no, you totally misunderstand when you say inferior. ok, well maybe there are some Catholics that think certain people are inferior to them, but they are going against the teachings of the CC. Catholics believe in the dignity of ALL human beings no matter what you believe in. look at it this way, the Truth is the Truth and we believe no one has a right to keep that Truth from you no matter who you are. if you met a group of people that believed and taught to others parents should kill their weak children and make way for the strong ones all in the name of Christ, you are going to do your best to show them where their thinking went astray, because they are spreading lies and lies are evil. obviously this group believes they have the Truth, but you can’t just let them go on in their delusion as it is hurting them and those children whether they know it or not. this does not mean you think they as human beings are inferior, but rather their beliefs are. Truth is Truth and lies are lies.

and in the same way, it IS an inferior teaching to tell people that all they need is a Bible and their own personal interpretation of it. you can see how that leads to NUMEROUS meanings. the very fact that we see Christians with signs that say “God hates [INSERT DEROGATORY NAME FOR HOMOSEXUALS HERE]” only shows you how dangerous personal interpretation can be.

Actually, I would first try to have a conversation with him to learn where He is coming from and where He is in his spiritual journey. How I would respond depends on where he is at. My objective would be to help him make his next step towards Christ in his journey.

My objective is to lead folks to the Lord with my example and life, not “defend the faith”. God can defend the faith by himself.

Actually I have read Catholic apologetics from perhaps one of the best of your sources (Dave Armstrong). Where he is successful is in nudging my opinion towards the Catholics towards the Billy Graham/Charles Colson end of the spectrum. Where he is not successful is in convincing me that y’all are THE ONE TRUE CHURCH.

Now, to be honest, many of y’all, with all (given all of the compliments I have received), must really be trying to nudge my opinion of Catholicism back towards the Jack Chick end of the spectrum. Maybe there are a whole lot of imbedded Protestants here claiming to be Catholic that have exactly this objective for all I know.

Oh I can raise this article many times more. Google John Canning Sebring Florida murder and you will read the account of a Pentecostal pastor who is a mass murderer. I have shaken his hands in my uncle’s church many years ago.

yes, and as someone else pointed out there are also rabbis, muslims and buddhists that do evil as well.

but back to your OP. the NT Bible was indeed compiled by the CC.

all i can say is to first read through the scriptural reasons that show that the Church is the pillar of Truth, and then go back and read some of the writings from the early Church fathers. what did they teach? How did they teach? you will have to acknowledge the oral traditions that were passed down from the apostles as well. i can tell you with all honesty in my heart that every single accusation i have seen against Christ’s Church has been either due to lack of information (ignorance of the facts), creating straw man arguments (ie accusing the Church of something she never taught), blaming the institution for the sins of rogue individuals, an inability or lack of desire to dig into complex subjects, and sometimes i just see a blind hatred that either comes from misplaced anger or straight up from the evil one.

not too smart, you strike me as young, but the fact that you are questioning in earnest is something that will reward you greatly down the road. don’t give up and keep digging as finding out if your Lord and savior did indeed found ONE Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church is the most important thing you can do! He wants you there.

oh and here’s a good one pager

pax tecum.

 

[jen_fla]

one more:

please take some time to read through this entire page. if you hear a counter to any of these and don’t know how to reconcile or feel that chick, the mormons, the baptists, 7th day adventists, the jw’s, the lutherans, or any of the other tens of thousands of protestant denominations has won the argument, please bring that point back here and ask.

and before you take any data from either side pray to Jesus to help you sort through Truth from nonsense.

cheers

 

[xixxvmcm85]

I did, post 120 on page 8.

Yeah…I miss posts too.

Oops! Thanks for pointing it out.

First of all, thank you for responding without all of the complements that I have received from other posters. Although the complements really are in reality priceless.

My pleasure to do so. If I succumb to childish rhetoric I hope you’ll point it out so that I might apologize.

But what we have here is a third option: individual people’s evil behaviour in the process of representing the said coalition.

Under this third option we have two sub-conditions

• with the knowledge and approval of the coalition
• without the knowledge and approval of the coalition

Understood. I don’t know yet if I can agree to this paradigm, but for the sake of the thread I’ll humor it.

And actually these are two poles of a scale. You might have the coalition explicitely authorizing such behavior, implicitely authorizing such behavior, turning a blind eye to such behavior, covering up such behavior when it occurs, etc.

Correct. I might add that the nature of this spectrum demands that we be as specific as possible to which offices within this “coalition” are responsible for such complicity. You must admit that a handful of Bishops hastily shuffling around predatory priests by their own volition is far different than the Bishops of the Church meeting for an explicit episcopal council. I still believe you’re comparing apples to oranges here with respect to “Canonization of the Bible” VS. “Priest Sex Scandal”. You’d have comparative subjects here if there were an Ecumenical Council met from which the Bishops in union with the Pope ordered that the scandal be covered up, priests continue being shuffled around, and/or a dogmatic exhortation commending the actions of such priests.

Now if you are a victim of this evil behavior by one individual in the process of representing the said coalition, it does not matter if this individual was a high-level leader, a low-level peon, with the approval of the coalition or without the approval of the coalition. Just because your perpetrator did it in the name of the coalition is enough for you as a victim to ascribe guilt to said coalition.

Wait a minute. You just said earlier that your argument was grounded on at least tacit complicity and here your saying that it’s just to still blame the Church even if the Church wasn’t tacitly complicit?

Our legal system operates under these rules. If I am a victim of wrongful behavior by one member of the coalition acting on behalf of the coalition, I can suit the coalition for damages. And get awarded big bucks. And that is happening with the assorted suits victims of the priest sex abuse scandals are bringing against the Catholic Church (not to mention the suits against McDonalds for its operatives spilling coffee).

Correct, but your understanding of the organization of the Catholic Church is a bit awry in my most humble opinion. The Vatican has not been sued, nor would such a suit likely be fruitful for THE Church isn’t responsible. Certainly the Bishops of particular dioceses are responsible in as far as they exercised their episcopal authority in said complicity. There are a number of suits that have been thrown out because this hasn’t been demonstrated “beyond a reasonable doubt” with particular Bishops of particular dioceses.

Remember, it isn’t my position that the Church as an organization has never done anything wrong, rather that your particular example used is a poor one while trying to compare to scripture canonization. I think you’d have a much stronger argument if you appealed to the Inquisitions or retributive action of the counter-reformation.

Now with regard to the foundation of your argument to complicity, I’m finished humoring it. I don’t believe its very meritorious due to the amount of speculation involved in establishing facts. At best, all you can show is that some Bishops acted very poorly (if not criminally) which really only reflects on them as individuals and possibly their poor character. Similarly, if a member of Congress, the head of a school board, etc. abused their authority it wouldn’t be correct to blame the organization as a whole especially since the chances are that the vast majority of the other members of the governing body had little to no clue about what was going on!

If you’re looking for something scandalous performed by THE Catholic Church to place on par with the canonization of the Bible, try looking for something that is explicitly organized and executed in a formal fashion such as the various episcopal synods, councils, papal decrees and apostolic letters issued bolstering the claim that the Catholic Church canonized the Bible.

 

[jen_fla]

good post…lots of words…making excellent points…sentence after sentence…and then for some odd reason ben stein’s voice enters my head:

… The difference is clear…clear eyes (sorry, couldn’t resist )

i just laughed for like 2 minutes. was sooo not expecting that. funny, funny funny!

 

[KindredSoul]

good post…lots of words…making excellent points…sentence after sentence…and then for some odd reason ben stein’s voice enters my head:

i just laughed for like 2 minutes. was sooo not expecting that. funny, funny funny!

…woooow.

 

[Reuben_J]

OK.

You are taking credit for the positive (a little too proudly for my preferences, but I’ll let that slide for now…I don’t want to nitpick…as well as the implications for Catholic theology that I don’t agree with…but I’ll let that slide also because not relevant to issue at hand…and I sort of have issues with the shared history issue…but I am letting that slide too…don’t want to nitpick and be too argumentative here…how is this for a run-on sentence).

But you are not passing the buck on the negative (although has been connected sounds a little weak to me…but I’ll let that pass also. Again I don’t want to be nitpicky here)…

So…

You’re good.

I have to admit that this thread is bizarre. Now maybe NTS will add me to his list … .

I think NTS is demonstrating what many Protestants views of Roman Catholicism, in particular, (1) infallibility of the Pope and (2) the CC as the Church founded and given to us by Jesus. Thus NTS, despite all the explanation, is unable to differentiate between men and women of the church and the Church when it acted as the Church given by Jesus (infallible).

Many Protestant cannot get over the fact that the Pope is only infallible when he speaks Ex-Cathedra. To them the Popes are adored by Catholics and that all their teachings are spoken Ex-Cathedra – so CC is being attacked when some Popes gave bad teachings. In this case, NTS also cannot differentiate errand priests from the Church – if these priests sin therefore the Church cannot be infallible to his mind.

We have reached a stalemate with NTS because he simply unable to shift the paradigm he has on the CC. Our explanation will needlessly be doomed to fail with him at this rate. Then he would whine and cry out that we are bullying him. NTS seems to be quite calculative on his part by using the acronym NotTooSmart. I wish he had been more straightforward and be like a man about this.

I wish to remind NTS again – the Church acted as a Church when she canonized the Bible. In other words, she called her servant Bishops, came together, prayed and deliberated, and surrendered themselves to the Holy Spirit to move them with wisdom to come out what we have today the BIBLE. And so, yes, the Catholic Church gave us the Bible, because it was done under her name.

The mentioned priests did not do their sinful action under the name of the CC but on their own, fallen to their own weaknesses and committed sins.

If NTS can differentiate the two, we will be getting somewhere but if not, we will be arguing until we are all blue in the face, perhaps in between would throw in few uncharitable words, and then for NTS to say he is not too smart and we are bullying him.

Anyway, God bless you NTS. You are actually quite smart to device your way of debating by using your acronym, NotTooSmart. We cannot win against this argument.

 

[Randb]

I am so tired of the protestants constantly bringing up about the priests. Do a google search on baptist preachers caught ! It will surprise you!! The only reason they are not well know is because they just up and move somewhere else & start another church whereas the Priests have documented dates of where they are & have been since they became priests! Our Priest was accused & after some investigations & dates were checked he was found to not even have been in that location at the time of the incident!

 

[Zooey]

.

Correct. I might add that the nature of this spectrum demands that we be as specific as possible to which offices within this “coalition” are responsible for such complicity. You must admit that a handful of Bishops hastily shuffling around predatory priests by their own volition is far different than the Bishops of the Church meeting for an explicit episcopal council. I still believe you’re comparing apples to oranges here with respect to “Canonization of the Bible” VS. “Priest Sex Scandal”. You’d have comparative subjects here if there were an Ecumenical Council met from which the Bishops in union with the Pope ordered that the scandal be covered up, priests continue being shuffled around, and/or a dogmatic exhortation commending the actions of such priests.

Wait a minute. You just said earlier that your argument was grounded on at least tacit complicity and here your saying that it’s just to still blame the Church even if the Church wasn’t tacitly complicit?

… your understanding of the organization of the Catholic Church is a bit awry in my most humble opinion. The Vatican has not been sued, nor would such a suit likely be fruitful for THE Church isn’t responsible. Certainly the Bishops of particular dioceses are responsible in as far as they exercised their episcopal authority in said complicity. There are a number of suits that have been thrown out because this hasn’t been demonstrated “beyond a reasonable doubt” with particular Bishops of particular dioceses.

Remember, it isn’t my position that the Church as an organization has never done anything wrong, rather that your particular example used is a poor one while trying to compare to scripture canonization. I think you’d have a much stronger argument if you appealed to the Inquisitions or retributive action of the counter-reformation.

Now with regard to the foundation of your argument to complicity, I’m finished humoring it. I don’t believe its very meritorious due to the amount of speculation involved in establishing facts. At best, all you can show is that some Bishops acted very poorly (if not criminally) which really only reflects on them as individuals and possibly their poor character. Similarly, if a member of Congress, the head of a school board, etc. abused their authority it wouldn’t be correct to blame the organization as a whole especially since the chances are that the vast majority of the other members of the governing body had little to no clue about what was going on!

If you’re looking for something scandalous performed by THE Catholic Church to place on par with the canonization of the Bible, try looking for something that is explicitly organized and executed in a formal fashion such as the various episcopal synods, councils, papal decrees and apostolic letters issued bolstering the claim that the Catholic Church canonized the Bible.

Very well said!!
This is precisely where NTS falls on the sword of his own illogic. NTS is not just comparing apples and oranges; he is comparing oranges and elephants.
And wondering why there are Orthodox & Protestant Christians arguing on the side of the Catholics…Both the EO archbishops and the Wesley brothers having a:thumbsup: perfectly clear understanding that citrus fruit from the Southern USA and large grey mammals from the Southern Hemisphere are not the same thing.

 

[nlm]

I am so tired of the protestants constantly bringing up about the priests. Do a google search on baptist preachers caught ! It will surprise you!! The only reason they are not well know is because they just up and move somewhere else & start another church whereas the Priests have documented dates of where they are & have been since they became priests! Our Priest was accused & after some investigations & dates were checked he was found to not even have been in that location at the time of the incident!

Please do not generalize this way.It’s not ALL protestants who feel that way or who keep bringing this issue up.I for one understand that these priests are like all other humans…they have freedom of choice.NO ONE forced them to do anything. I know some VERY saintly priest.Actually my VERY BEST friend EVER was one of those priests. I can also tell you that some Protestant Ministers are also guilty of crimes against children and others. No one denomination has a monopoly on these types of sins. Why? Because we are all human and are born with a penchant towards wrong.Thank God He saw in His infinite mercy to give us a second chance or we would all be headed for HELL without exception.NLM

 

[Anna_Scott]

I really do not see how anyone could connect the failings of a few Priests with the issue of establishing the Biblical Canon. Every religion has members who have fallen into sin.

On Aug 16, 2009, I said my goodbyes to the Catholic Forums on the Catechism vs. Scripture Thread–seemed to be too much of Catholic Doctrine that I could not accept; and I was also weary from dealing with many health issues— that certainly played a role in my saying goodbye.

When I began to feel better, I spent some time on a Christian Forum–Baptist Thread (another website.) I grew up in the Baptist Church and thought I would give them one more try.

I spoke of Catholics as my brothers and sisters in Christ; and the fact that the Biblical Canon came from the Catholic Church.

I was promptly told that Catholics are not brothers and sisters in Christ. Fortunately, there were forum members who disagreed and said they did consider Catholics to be our brothers and sisters.

As for the canon, I was told, “It is clear that God used the early men to establish the cannon of Scripture but He also used an *** (word for hind end of a donkey) to speak truth to a man.”

I responded by saying, "This is a rather shocking slam to our Catholic brothers and sisters. I really can’t imagine God placing the task of assembling divinely inspired Scripture in the hands of anyone who was not a true Christian. Isn’t Scripture a divine revelation given to man? When in the History of the Bible did God entrust such an important task to “an ***?” Were the Ten Commandments given to “an ***?” My response did not change anything.

Then, I disagreed with Sola Scriptura on the “Creeds” Thread. I know this is rather ironic, since I am a Protestant.

I ended up in trouble with the Moderators, because I argued that it would be difficult to understand the Trinity, without tradition. I began to quote Scriptures that could contradict the Trinity, to make my point.

I was not allowed to continue the discussion on the forums, because my posts were viewed as “anti-Trinitarian,” and, therefore, against Forum Rules—even though I said I believe in the Trinity. I ended up having to use PM to discuss the issue with the staff minister. If this sounds difficult to believe, I am having trouble believing it myself.

In discussing Sola Scriptura, the minister suggested a book to help explain the Trinity. Yes, I know, this contradicts Sola Scriptura. I replied, “It is rather startling how quickly you moved from “Sola Scriptura” to “Commentary,” to help explain the Trinity.”

This is a copy of the last PM. I will use Minister Doe to protect the minister’s identity:

Originally posted by Minister Doe:

Hey Anna. I read your reply in thread. Thank-you for laying out your question so clearly. Allow me to comment privately about two statements found therein.
**
Anna Scott:
**It is rather startling how quickly you moved from “Sola Scriptura” to “Commentary,” to help explain the Trinity. Commentary creates a “tradition of interpretation” whether it comes from the early church fathers or contemporary Christian writers.

Originally posted by Minister Doe:

Well Anna, you are asking ME to make commentary on the Scriptures, so I see little difference if an even BETTER theologian has a go at it. James White is one of the world’s leading biblical exegetes and defenders of sola scriptura. His book does precisely as you have asked – walking through the Scriptures and demonstrating the biblical basis for the Trinity.
Anna Scott:

I should be able to read all the Scriptures that point to the Trinity and all the Scriptures that seem to contradict the Trinity, and clearly see the Trinity Doctrine in Scripture—Sola Scriptura. So far, I have not been able to do that.

Originally posted by Minister Doe:

Please consider that your inability to “clearly see” the doctrine of the Trinity in Scripture, in no way suggests its absence. That said, it might be meaningful for us to begin with those Scriptures you believe contradict the Doctrine of the Trinity. We will exegete these passages slowly, one at a time, and see if they truly present the difficulties you perceive. Would you like to pick one to get us going, or should I just select something from one of your previous posts?

Among our staff, there are those who wonder at your sincerity. I on the other hand, am one of your strongest defenders. I choose to believe you are a Trinitarian who is simply looking to deepen her knowledge, and not a closet Unitarian looking to promote non-Nicene theology. I trust you will do nothing to impune my faith in you.

Response by

Anna Scott: Thank you for your prompt response. I will say that I am disheartened in hearing that there are some, among your staff, who wonder about my sincerity. I thought I was revealing my crisis very openly. I’m not a Unitarian. I do believe in the Trinity.

I am a Christian praying to God to reveal His truth to me. I am a Christian in crisis after reading the Bible cover-to-cover and comparing the Scripture to what I have heard in the Baptist Church, since my childhood.

Remember my quote: “Without the creeds and writing of the early church fathers, it is difficult to find certain doctrines. A great example is the doctrine of the Trinity. The word “Trinity” is not found in the N.T. I have found no Scripture that states God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit are one God. Yet, Baptists believe in the doctrine of the Trinity.”

As you can see, I was never against tradition or commentary. I think it is a part of our Christian heritage.

It is the Baptist claim of Sola Scriptura, that is puzzling. My point is, if you are going to claim Sola Scriptura: then you should be able to give Scripture that clearly defines the Trinity without contradicting other Scripture; and the Trinity doctrine should be evident without commentary and assumptions.

The fact that we have to have this discussion privately; and not on the open forum, where others can participate, tells me that I am in the wrong place. This kind of censorship is a red flag for me.

So, I am going to return to forums.catholic-questions.org. There are many Protestants there, and many Catholics who have been very helpful. A free and open exchange of ideas is allowed at Catholic Answers Forum. There are rules that keep the discussions respectful, but no extreme censorship of ideas.

I appreciate all of your time, and I thank you for defending me, when the other staff questioned my sincerity. I’m sure most of the staff will be relieved to see me go.

Respectfully,
Anna

I am very happy to be back!
Anna

 

[PJM]

=NotTooSmart;5647957]…unless you also want to say that the Catholic church gave us the inquisition and the priest sex abuse scandals.

The point being that you can not take credit for the positive while at the same time pass the buck on the negative. A little consistency on this please.

***Friend, your logic is seriously flawed.

First of all, “The Church” is a institution made of of moral souls. So lets blame Catholic men for the Inquistion and the sex scandal [which for the record mirrored the percentage of abusers in other religions and society at large] but nevertheless is a higly signifiant failing of those called by God for His service.***

The difference is that the Bible is Divinly inspired, and came through the Church, not as the author per sae, but as the body that collected [OT] and wrote [NT] and was the sole possesser of the Bible until about the year 1,650. So yes, the claim that the Church “gave us” the Bible is an accurate and factual understanding. Thanks for asking.

Love and prayers friend [and a bit more charity would be nice too]

 

[PRmerger]

I really do not see how anyone could connect the failings of a few Priests with the issue of establishing the Biblical Canon. Every religion has members who have fallen into sin.

On Aug 16, 2009, I said my goodbyes to the Catholic Forums on the Catechism vs. Scripture Thread–seemed to be too much of Catholic Doctrine that I could not accept; and I was also weary from dealing with many health issues— that certainly played a role in my saying goodbye.

I spoke of Catholics as my brothers and sisters in Christ; and the fact that the Biblical Canon came from the Catholic Church.

I was promptly told that Catholics are not brothers and sisters in Christ. Fortunately, there were forum members who disagreed and said they did consider Catholics to be our brothers and sisters.

I am very happy to be back!
Anna

Wow, Anna. Thank you for sharing your story and for defending us Catholics as your brothers and sisters in Christ.

It sounds like you are a searcher of the Truth and are willing to seek first the Kingdom of God. You bring to mind a favorite GKChesterton quote: “The object of opening the mind, as of opening the mouth, is to shut it again on something solid.”

Glad to have you back!!

 

[Anna_Scott]

Wow, Anna. Thank you for sharing your story and for defending us Catholics as your brothers and sisters in Christ.

It sounds like you are a searcher of the Truth and are willing to seek first the Kingdom of God. You bring to mind a favorite GKChesterton quote: “The object of opening the mind, as of opening the mouth, is to shut it again on something solid.”

Glad to have you back!!

Thanks so much for the welcome. I’ve really missed everyone here.
Anna

 

[PJM]

=NotTooSmart;5648422]Then it was the Catholic Church, the pillar and ground of truth, that gave us the priest sex abuse scandals.

The next time you open your newspaper and read about this, thank the Catholic Church for giving it to you.

“Not too Smart”

Thanks for the kind words and thoughts.

God Bless you,

A catholic friend