The Catholic church did not give us the Bible

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The following should be edited as follows, esp. since I have discovered from reading the thread that the O.P. “Not Too Smart” was the one primarily responsible for provoking hostilities, while most of the separated Brethren here have tried to distance themselves from him and his anti-Catholic Attacks…
I am sorry…but…

I have been accused throughouit this thread of “anti-Catholic Attacks”.

I don’t think I have done this.

Could you please name one “anti-Catholic Attack?”

Now…there have been plenty of personal attacks on me.

No Catholics have stuck up for me when I was told that my church is a brothel and that I have demons. But many of you have jumped down my throat on “anti-Catholic attacks”.

I do not see it, to be honest.
 
No Catholics have stuck up for me when I was told that my church is a brothel and that I have demons. But many of you have jumped down my throat on “anti-Catholic attacks”.
Where was the brothel statement?

I saw the demon statement, but it looks like the guy was being facetious or was saying you have issues to deal with (you’ve never heard someone saying they have their own demons to deal with…it just means they have issues/problems to deal with…probably not literal…compare it to someone who talks about having skeletons in their closet or something…it’s figurative), but ask the poster what he meant.
 
I am sorry…but…

I have been accused throughouit this thread of “anti-Catholic Attacks”.

I don’t think I have done this.

Could you please name one “anti-Catholic Attack?”

Now…there have been plenty of personal attacks on me.

No Catholics have stuck up for me when I was told that my church is a brothel and that I have demons. But many of you have jumped down my throat on “anti-Catholic attacks”.

I do not see it, to be honest.
Well if you are wrong, and some one is telling the truth you will not see any one stucking up for you and if you have demons ,I do not think you are going to find help here.
 
Where was the brothel statement?

I saw the demon statement, but it looks like the guy was being facetious or was saying you have issues to deal with (you’ve never heard someone saying they have their own demons to deal with…it just means they have issues/problems to deal with…probably not literal…compare it to someone who talks about having skeletons in their closet or something…it’s figurative), but ask the poster what he meant.
Post 147.
 
Post 147.
Yeah, I’ll agree he got a little too passionate and angry there, but you do seem to make a lot of posts challenging and questioning the Catholic Church. Remember, you are on a Catholic site. I don’t know about others, but I don’t go to Protestant sites and start arguments.

The “Priest sex abuse” is a very touchy one for many Catholics, especially since they see there is a double standard. Sex abuse issues occur in the secular world (i.e. teachers, other people…look at the Roman Polanski issue) and in other “denominations” and even Non-Christian groups (I remember watching that “To Catch a Predator” series thing on MSNBC where they are catching people who solicit sex from underage people and they busted a Rabbi at one point), but the Catholic Church seems to be the group that gets singled out for attack. Yes, it is disgusting what has happened and guilty Priests should be prosecuted to the extent of the law, but sadly, every organization has its perverts and problem, but people don’t usually blame the system (i.e. the school system) for the perversion of a few of its members, they blame the individuals themselves.

In terms of the Inquisition issue, several people have pointed out how the ‘standard’ interpretation of the Inquisition which sees it as this evil and monstrous action is historically inaccurate.

And as I said on another thread, for a lot of Catholics, an insult to the Church to their idealized mother, so when people come on this site, a CATHOLIC site, and proceed to air dirty laundry of the Church’s, make insults and constantly challenge her, it can be expected that it is going to draw a harsh response from many. Is that right? Maybe, maybe not. But again, look at how upset you got when someone called your ecclesial community a ‘brothel’. We Catholics deal with that stuff all the time (i.e. the “whore of Babylon”) and you can bet it ticks us off. I don’t see you coming to the defense of the Church when people lambast her like that…
 
Hello all.

I realize my posts were off topic and now that the thread has reverted back to the original post and tone, I will go back to watching christian charity at its best,

Thank you all for answering my questions and offering guidance, it was and is greatly appreciated.
 
Lets see what is going on here,NottooSmart is saying cathloic are saying he is anti-cathloic well lets look at the thread.
The inquistion was in 1473 and the sex scandals was in 1993 No Cathloic has said it did not happen,we have omit it did happen
now this was 1123 years After the inquisition and 1643 after the Cathloic Church put the Bible together…And He saying we are calling him anti-Cathloic.
He got a very good answer about the inquisition and we all know about the sex scandqls,after I do not know how may many post he has rec. . and he is gripping about his anit-cathloic bashing he started the thread trying to bash the Cathloic Church and is now crying like a little boy. Nottoosmart you are getting your answer and the truth,smile and do not cry,We all love you the truth is just hard to take some times
 
Hello all.

I realize my posts were off topic and now that the thread has reverted back to the original post and tone, I will go back to watching christian charity at its best,

Thank you all for answering my questions and offering guidance, it was and is greatly appreciated.
Remember, charity does not always consist in being all mushy-gushy. Remember, both Jesus and St. John the Baptist were quite harsh to the Pharisees and Sadducees, whom they say saw as leading the Jewish people astray. St. Paul was quite harsh towards the Galatian Judaizers and even called out St. Peter when he was incorrect.

Now, I will admit I have been uncharitable on this thread and others, and I am sorry, especially if my failings should reflect poorly on Holy Mother Church.
 
I am sorry…but…

I have been accused throughouit this thread of “anti-Catholic Attacks”.

I don’t think I have done this.

Could you please name one “anti-Catholic Attack?”

Now…there have been plenty of personal attacks on me.

No Catholics have stuck up for me when I was told that my church is a brothel and that I have demons. But many of you have jumped down my throat on “anti-Catholic attacks”.

I do not see it, to be honest.
I’m going to say this with all charity and love, NTS: you mix your overly-sensitive psyche (by your own admission, mind you. I’m not calling you anything you haven’t already proffered as a possibility) and a screen name that simply invites insults…this is what you’ll get.

Methinks that your attempt (through your screenname) at self-effacing humility, combined with your overly sensitive-to-insults nature, is a bad combination, esp. when you’re in a minority, and saying things that often contradict the basic beliefs of Catholics.

So, either change your screen name, or stop getting so insulted so easily. I mean, come on now, some of the things you get huffy about and leave threads over are, well, silly.
 
I’m going to say this with all charity and love, NTS: you mix your overly-sensitive psyche (by your own admission, mind you. I’m not calling you anything you haven’t already proffered as a possibility) and a screen name that simply invites insults…this is what you’ll get.

Methinks that your attempt (through your screenname) at self-effacing humility, combined with your overly sensitive-to-insults nature, is a bad combination, esp. when you’re in a minority, and saying things that often contradict the basic beliefs of Catholics.

So, either change your screen name, or stop getting so insulted so easily. I mean, come on now, some of the things you get huffy about and leave threads over are, well, silly.
Well I have thought about changing my screen name…but I don’t think you can.
 
Well I have thought about changing my screen name…but I don’t think you can.
You should PM or e-mail the Admins. They can either change it for you or close your account so you can make a new one with a new SN.
 
You should PM or e-mail the Admins. They can either change it for you or close your account so you can make a new one with a new SN.
Good idea. I think I will. I have been thinking for a while that my choice of a screen name was…well…kind of…not too smart.
 
Rob this is where we disagree with Catholics You can confess your sins directly to God. God calls those who are Christian His sons. Does a son need someone to go to the father for him? God wants longs for and desires this type of relationship with all of us, a personal one on one.
Excuse me, but Catholics MUST confess their sins to God BEFORE going to Reconciliation. That is the first step. When explaining Confession we often forget to include this step, because it is just common sense. Of course you go to God for forgiveness first, but because any sin harms the body of Christ, you must reconcile yourself to the Community, too. The early Christians took Paul at his word when he said “Confess your sins to one another…” .

In the Early christian church, if you sinned after you were baptized, then you were kicked out of the Church and if you wanted back in, you had to sit in the front of the Church, heaping ashes on your head and hope that a “good” Christian coming into Church would let you back in. Today, the priest stands in for the Community, so when we are confessing to the priest, we are, in essence, “confessing to on another”. Additionally, Jesus gave the power to forgive sins to the disciples (John 20:19-23).

*When Jesus bestowed on the the disciples the power to forgive sins, He did it on Easter Sunday. This is significant because of the connection of the Resurrection with Spiritual life. Notice that He conferred the power by “breathing” on the Apostles. The only other time that God breathed on anyone was when He breathed life into Adam(Gn 2:7). Note that Jesus gives the power to forgive or not to forgive. This means that the priest has to hear the sins in order to know whether to forgive them or hold them bound. * (Beginning Apologetics Vol 1, Chacon and Burnham,2004, pg 24).
CC
 
Hello PRmerger.

How am I guilty of anothers sin?
We’re not guilty of Adam’s sin; however, we suffer the consequences of it (loss of eternal life, loss of relationship with God, tendency to prefer sin rather than good).

Suppose a father squanders his child’s college fund along with all that he has, on drinking and gambling. Can you understand how the child then suffers for his father’s sin? The child now has no more opportunity to go to school, meaning that he and his own children will live in poverty. Three generations later, the great great grandchild asks, “Why are we poor? Our ancestors were rich!” Then he finds out that his great great grandfather squandered the fortune on drinking and gambling, thus plunging the family into poverty. So, the great great grandchild now has to do something radical to get the family back to the level of material wealth that was lost. It involves great sacrifices - working two jobs while attending college. But it’s a sacrifice; not a punishment, because the child himself did nothing wrong. But at the same time, he has to repair the situation that was created by his ancestor.

In the same way, Adam did something (symbolized by the figure of eating a forbidden fruit) that caused the whole human race to be ejected from Paradise and to lose communication with God - something that caused both us and the world to not work right anymore.
 
You know what I meant. That for the sake of this discussion his eternal status is not relevant.
The problem is, NTS, most of the people responding on the forum don’t know what you mean by some of the things you say, and, to them, it sounds a bit like you are spazzing out about this. Now, you want to know why the inconsistency of the Catholic curch claiming the bible as something the church did and claiming all those scandals are done by individuals exists, correct? I will tell you: When the bible was canonized, its canonization was performed by a conference/committee whose sole purpose was to produce that canon. The committee was appointed directly by the pope, the Head of the church. It took a collaboration of church officials which desired and prayed to represent the will of the whole church. As for the scandals, they were performed by men who simply thought they could get away with a horrible act because they were priests or bishops or whatever. Those people did not constantly pray to represent the will of the whole church when they were molesting children or killing people. That is why the church feels the right to make a distinction between the two. There IS a difference, and that is why they seem inconsistent to someone who does not wish to accept the fact that there is a difference. Please note that the priests who are caught in these scandals are excommunicated from the church in most cases. They have disinherited their sacred vows, not affirmed them as the committee which canonized the Bible did. Have a wonderful day, and may Christ be with you.
 
The following should be edited as follows, esp. since I have discovered from reading the thread that the O.P. “Not Too Smart” was the one primarily responsible for provoking hostilities, while most of the separated Brethren here have tried to distance themselves from him and his anti-Catholic Attacks…

So long as this thread can be maintained charitably and the discussion can be both civil and edifying, I see no reason why the thread would need to be closed.

Remember, there are unbelievers reading this, and they are looking at how we treat each other to see if the claims about Christ are really true. We’re the only witnesses many of them will ever see, and if we’re a bunch of uncharitable SOB’s, that’s what they’re going to think about Christians, and that’s what they’re going to think about Christ.

Your Brother in Christ, Michael
Well said, brother. Well said…
 
As someone who converted to Catholicism from a varied background in protestant churches, including the UPC, I can well understand the question asked by NTS as well as the position of many of our protestant brethren.

I for one do not see the question as disrespectful in any way. I have a good idea of what it is NTS believes since I came from a similar background. I think the question was addressed by some of us in a respectful and loving manner and in reading through the entire post (took me 3 days of off and on reading…sheesh) I believe NTS was for the most part respectful and truly wanted to debate the point. In the end he and those who actually debated him agreed to to disagree.

I pray that the debate he had with some of us lead to a desire to understand the Catholic position in greater depth and that he will approach it with objectivity and an open mind.

It is unfortunate that some of my fellow Catholics gave into the temptation to to name call, insult and provoke. As a former moderator on an internet forum I know it is easy, even for good folk, to forget civility.

Let us remember that as Christians it is our Duty to love our neighbor. Not sometimes, not only our Catholic neighbors, and not only our neighbors in the broader brotherhood of Christ. We are commanded to love all of our neighbors. A key component to loving our neighbor is to give them respect. If you do not have a warm fuzzy feeling for NST or any other protestant who comes to this board at least extend them the respect they are due out of Christian love. To do otherwise would be a poor witness of the Gospel.

NST I would pray that you do not consider the emotional outbursts of a few of us to be the stance of Catholics as a whole. And that you will remember that the internet is a poor medium for “reading intent” when it comes to discussion on a forum…it is often times a lot like panning for gold, you have to sift to find the nuggets.

In Christ,

Scott Irey
 
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