The Catholic church did not give us the Bible

[DihydrogenOxide]

Believe your own version of church history. You do anyway. Don’t mention the crusades sacking Christian Constantinople. Actually as they were Eastern Orthoodox they weren’t proper Christians were they?

You seem to believe in King James’ modified version of the bible.

 

[romesweethome]

…unless you also want to say that the Catholic church gave us the inquisition and the priest sex abuse scandals.

The point being that you can not take credit for the positive while at the same time pass the buck on the negative. A little consistency on this please.

This is like saying that you did not give your children their formation, or lack thereof, in the Christian faith. yes, you did, or did not. Did God work through you to give them formation? yes, but it was your choice to do it or not. If as a Christian, you did not give your children formation in the faith, then that is your sin, and not of God. That sin will not only be accredited directly to you, but will affect the entire body of Christ in some way, and also cause your children a long life of sin and disobedience which will also affect countless others and the body of Christ.

To address the topic of sins, yes, each person decides to sin every single sin they do. God does not cause people to sin, nor lead them into temptation to sin, therefore the sin is a personal responsibility of each individual and has nothing to do with what God teaches through his body, the Church.

One cannot say that the church is less true because of the sins of it’s members. Did the sin of Judas or peter make the truth less true? No. The weeds will grow amongst the wheat until the harvest.

God gave us a church.That one Church God gave us, decided by the power of the Holy Spirit working through it, which books were inspired and which were not. Therefore the canon of scripture was decided by the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church Christ gave us. Period.

Do the members of the body sin? absolutely, and sometimes terribly, but that does not change the fact that the Church canonized the scriptures over an almost 400 year period.

Even Luther admitted this.

peace, RSH

 

[ccolley2]

Like I said before, the Bible is authored by God, not anyone else. We humans are mere vessels. If we are to listen to God, then we should listen to what God wrote INSIDE of it, and not what some vessels performed during the conveyance of the message.

1 John 2:27 The anointing you received from Him remains in you, and you don’t need anyone to teach you. Instead, His anointing teaches you about all things, and is true and is not a lie; just as it has taught you, remain in Him.

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You really need to stop taking things out of context. The quote from 1John actually reads…

“*I write to you about those who would deceive you; but the anointing which you received from him abides in you…you don’t need anyone to teach you, instead…” *

The writer is not saying that appropriate authorities do not need to teach us; he is merely saying that ALL the faithful/anointed (those sealed with the Holy Spirit) AS A GROUP have a “sensus fedei” ( a supernatural insight into the Gospel) and that that can protect them from straying from what had been taught by the Apostles. This was in response to a heretical group that was attempting to lead others astray by saying that Jesus was NOT the Christ. (See verse 18 to get the context). To interpret it otherwise would contradict other passages in the bible such as the one in Acts of Philip teaching the eunuch and of Paul telling Christians to hold fast to what had been taught to them.
CC
[SIGN]Papist since 1992![/SIGN]

 

[wanner47]

Regarding the Catholic Church “giving” us the priest abuse scandals…

Looks like there are also similar “gifts” from Protestant communities: www.reformation.com

And from the Baptist church: www.stopbaptistpredators.org

The Jews are not immune: Abuse Scandal Plagues Hasidic Jews In Brooklyn

Looks like the Mormons are also guilty: mormonabuse.com/

Looks like a whole lot of churches have “given” abuse scandals to the world. Why single out the Catholic Church?

 

[Javl]

Regarding the Catholic Church “giving” us the priest abuse scandals…

Looks like there are also similar “gifts” from Protestant communities: www.reformation.com

And from the Baptist church: www.stopbaptistpredators.org

The Jews are not immune: Abuse Scandal Plagues Hasidic Jews In Brooklyn

Looks like the Mormons are also guilty: mormonabuse.com/

Looks like a whole lot of churches have “given” abuse scandals to the world. Why single out the Catholic Church?

Only because all those of the news media always have a field day in bashing the Catholic Church. Since the CC opposes “political correctness” and is vociferous about it, it is singled out as against anything secular and wants to control everything.

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

 

[jmcrae]

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If The Catholic Church gave us the Bible, then just start with the oldest part of such - the Ten Commandments (given around 1400 BC) and document that The Catholic Church gave that to us.

Would you say that the 10 Commandments is the Bible?

Not God, not Moses - The Catholic Church. Then proceed through all the material, doing the same thing, finally with the Revelation of John (given around 95 AD - generally regarded as the newest part) and show us that that came from The Catholic Church.

All of the writers of the New Testament were Catholics in full communion with the Apostle Peter, our first Pope - but none of those books, in and of themselves, are the Bible.

The Bible is the container object that we put these things into, during the last decade of the 300s AD.

 

[monica24]

Yes, it is true the Bible came from the Catholic Church. So if you want to find out more, get this book called: " Which Bible Should You Read?" By: Thomas A. Nelson:bible1:

 

[jake23]

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If The Catholic Church gave us the Bible, then just start with the oldest part of such - the Ten Commandments (given around 1400 BC) and document that The Catholic Church gave that to us. Not God, not Moses - The Catholic Church. Then proceed through all the material, doing the same thing, finally with the Revelation of John (given around 95 AD - generally regarded as the newest part) and show us that that came from The Catholic Church.

It is a often made Catholic claim (well, Catholics - The Catholic Church has never claimed this to my knowledge, my Catholic teachers certainly didn’t). But I’ve never seen anyone even attempt to document the claim as true. It’s one of those many things Catholics throw out there - over and over and over and over - as if it’s true if they just say it a lot, but never even attempt to substantiate as true.

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Another example of an uneducated but highly opinionated protestant! The Bible is a collection of scripture put together by the catholic church which we call the Bible. Besides the old testament the scriptures where written seperately and where not put together until the catholic church did so. I knew this simple historic fact back when I was a lost protestant. Educate yourself on the history and meanings of the Bible, but be aware you will end up Catholic like me and you wouldnt want that would you?

 

[Irish_Catholic_1]

One reason why some people don’t accept the FACT that the Catholic Church gave us the Bible is because they don’t understand what the Catholic Church actually is.

The Pope and the Bishops are the successors of Peter and the Apostles. In that repsect, it was the Pope and Bishops who canonized the Nerw Testament in the 4th century, thus giving us the Bible in its present form, and therefore it is right to say that the Catholic Church gave us the Bible

 

[jake23]

One reason why some people don’t accept the FACT that the Catholic Church gave us the Bible is because they don’t understand what the Catholic Church actually is.

The Pope and the Bishops are the successors of Peter and the Apostles. In that repsect, it was the Pope and Bishops who canonized the Nerw Testament in the 4th century, thus giving us the Bible in its present form, and therefore it is right to say that the Catholic Church gave us the Bible

As a ex-protestant I can tell you there are a few protestants that know what you wrote but wont accept it as truth because they would also have to accept the fact that theyre beliefs are wrong and the holy catholic church is right. It is too threatening to their egos!

 

[Hiskid1973]

As a ex-protestant I can tell you there are a few protestants that know what you wrote but wont accept it as truth because they would also have to accept the fact that theyre beliefs are wrong and the holy catholic church is right. It is too threatening to their egos!

As long as that holy catholic church you speak of contains all the sees from before the schism…I guess the best way to say it is the bible’s books were put together by christian’s from what are the combined Catholic and Orthodox churches, moved via the Holy Spirit.

 

[jmcrae]

As long as that holy catholic church you speak of contains all the sees from before the schism.

What else would it be? That was the Catholic Church, back then.

I guess the best way to say it is the bible’s books were put together by christian’s from what are the combined Catholic and Orthodox churches, moved via the Holy Spirit.

Or in other words, “the Catholic Church,” since the Eastern churches had not yet left the Catholic Church.

 

[Hiskid1973]

What else would it be? That was the Catholic Church, back then.
Or in other words, “the Catholic Church,” since the Eastern churches had not yet left the Catholic Church.

I specify because some define the Catholic church differently…

 

[Irish_Catholic_1]

As long as that holy catholic church you speak of contains all the sees from before the schism…I guess the best way to say it is the bible’s books were put together by christian’s from what are the combined Catholic and Orthodox churches, moved via the Holy Spirit.

Since the NT was canonized BEFORE the schism, then you could well say that.

But the schsim occured afterwards, and the Catholic bishops are still united to the Successor of Peter.

 

[Hiskid1973]

Since the NT was canonized BEFORE the schism, then you could well say that.

That’s my point…Some argue that it was the only CC that was responsible…ie Rome see…

 

[jmcrae]

That’s my point…Some argue that it was the only CC that was responsible…ie Rome see…

The Catholic Church is everyone that is in full communion with the Pope - it is not the Roman See all alone. It never has been.

 

[Hiskid1973]

The Catholic Church is everyone that is in full communion with the Pope - it is not the Roman See all alone. It never has been.

Either way, some see the one, holy ,catholic church as the just Catholic church today when in reality it was what we see as both the Catholic and Orthodox church’s today…

 

[AmericanJosiah]

The Bible is a collection of scripture put together by the catholic church which we call the Bible. Besides the old testament the scriptures where written seperately and where not put together until the catholic church did so. I knew this simple historic fact back when I was a lost protestant. Educate yourself on the history and meanings of the Bible, but be aware you will end up Catholic like me and you wouldnt want that would you?

Actually, every word of Scripture pre-dates The Catholic Church doing ANYTHING in this regard - as history shows. Most of the Bible was written and regarded as Scripture CENTURIES before even The Catholic Church itself alone claims to have come into existence, so therefore it is historically IMPOSSIBLE for it to gave given that to anyone. And we know from history that every single one of the books now regarded as Scripture was so regarded generally LONG before The Catholic Church finally (well, later is better than never) The Catholic Church did a THING in that regard.

IF you wish to defind this often made Catholic claim (well, Catholics - I’ve never read where The Catholic Church claims this), then show that every bit of Scripture was given by The Catholic Church. Start with the oldest part (generally thought to be The Ten Commandments written around 1400 BC) and right through all the material through Revelation (thought to be the newest part, around 95 AD) and document that The Catholic Church gave it. Not God, not people, not Jews or Christians, but specifically, particularly, The Catholic Church. OR you could agree with my Catholic teachers who taught me that God gave the Scriptures via His penmen (the identity of many of whom are not even known), believers were lead to embrace them as Scriptures, the later - most denominations officially, formally acknowledged the list (yours did officially in Trent, Italy, in the 16th Century, but even if you regard Hippo or Carthrige around 400 - that’s centuries after the fact for most of the books). Acknowledging something is entirely unrelated to giving or forming or causing such. I acknowledge that the Constitution of the United States was written, but I didn’t give it. I didn’t have a thing to do with it.

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[jmcrae]

Actually, every word of Scripture pre-dates The Catholic Church doing ANYTHING in this regard - as history shows. Most of the Bible was written and regarded as Scripture CENTURIES before even The Catholic Church itself alone claims to have come into existence, so therefore it is historically IMPOSSIBLE for it to gave given that to anyone.

Yes, it was generally regarded as Scripture. Scripture is not the same thing as the Bible. The Bible is a collection of all the Scripture in the world. It was not collected (hence, no collection of it, the collection of it being the Bible) until the last decade of the 300s AD.

And we know from history that every single one of the books now regarded as Scripture was so regarded generally LONG before The Catholic Church finally (well, later is better than never) The Catholic Church did a THING in that regard.

The Catholic Church identified it, and collected it, and that’s where the Bible came from.

 

[AmericanJosiah]

Yes, it was generally regarded as Scripture. Scripture is not the same thing as the Bible.

It’s not? What Scriptures do you believe are such but are not in your Bible (or vise versa?)

“Bible” can refer to specific tomes, like the one my mom bought me (in which case, my mom gave me the Bible), but generally, it means the corpus of Scriptures.

If The Catholic Church gave us all of the Scriptures, then it’s a rather simply process to document that as truthful: Just start with the oldest part (The Ten Commandments - around 1400 BC) and show that it came specificly, solely from The Catholic Church, and just proceed through all the material.

The Bible is a collection of all the Scripture in the world. It was not collected (hence, no collection of it, the collection of it being the Bible) until the last decade of the 300s AD.

That’s the list of canonical books. But actually, it was formed LONG before The Catholic Church (or any other denomination) did ANYTHING in that regard. Read the history. The Old Testament was regarded as Scripture for CENTURIES before any Christian denomination did anything. Paul’s letters, the 4 Gospels, Acts, these were all regarded as Scripture by the end of the First Century - some 300 years before Cathrage or Hippo, and some 1300 years before Trent.

I find it historically incredible that The Catholic Church gave us every word in the Bible from Genesis 1:1 - Revelation 22:21. I don’t find ANY historical evidence that it gave us one letter of it. And it could not have had anything to do with what books are regarded as canonical because it simply embraced the “list” that already had been formed. As my Catholic teachers taught me, The Catholic Church officially, formally ACKNOWLEDGED the list - but then so has virtually all other denominations. That has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with “giving” us the Bible. I acknowledge the American Constitution. I didn’t give it to the USA. Apples and oranges. But again, the oft made Catholic claim (Catholics, I’ve never read where The Catholic Church claims this) is that The Catholic Church gave us the Bible - every word of it. The issue of this thread is not if The Catholic Church - like almost all other denominations - officially and formally acknowledged the canon of books. Certainly it did. So did my denomination. So has most.

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