The Catholic Church has a left lung and right lung

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

Jaypeeto3:

The Eastern Orthodox Churches are every bit as schismatic as the Society of St. Pius the Tenth. In fact, even more so.
The SSPX at least accepts the doctrines of the Papacy (even though they disobeyed JPII), and the doctrines of the Filioque and the Immaculate Conception of the Mother of God, and all of the ecumenical councils since 787 A.D. The Eastern Orthodox flatly reject all of these.

Actually less so than the SSPX as those who adhere to the SSPX make a choice to be in schism. Whereas the majority of the Orthodox are born into the Orthodox Church.

As the Catechism says, no one can be born into schism.

818 “However, one cannot charge with the sin of the separation those who at present are born into these communities [that resulted from such separation] and in them are brought up in the faith of Christ, and the Catholic Church accepts them with respect and affection as brothers . . . . All who have been justified by faith in Baptism are incorporated into Christ; they therefore have a right to be called Christians, and with good reason are accepted as brothers in the Lord by the children of the Catholic Church.”

 

[Hesychios]

MonkeyTape:

This is the list that I found of the Rites and Churches in union with the Pope. I didn’t count to see if there were 24 or not.

Western Rites and Churches
**
ROMAN** (also called Latin) -Church
• Roman -Rite
• Mozarabic -Rite
• Ambrosian-Rite
• Bragan-Rite
• Dominican -Rite
• Carmelite-Rite
• Carthusian-Rite
Basically, you did fine with this but technically it needs a little work.

Here is a hint: The Western church is so big that it includes several rites (and usages). The eastern churches usually share the rites with other churches.

The rites came first, very early on the way Christians worshiped had a lot to do with where they were at any given time. The information above is fine. I am not sure if the last three are considered usages of the latin rite or rites in themselves but no matter. The reason the Latin Rite is so big is because the other rites in the west never developed into Patriarchal church as might havew happened had they been located in the East. The Latin church absorbed the others and gradually supporessed them to the point where very few Roman Catholics have ever worshiped in such a Mass.

The Ambrosian rite is still used in Milan Italy, but once extended across northern Italy and into Slovenia and Croatia.

There was also a Celtic rite, it was completely suppressed. The rite used in North Africa was extinguished after the Muslim conquest, it is hard to tell how similar it might have been to the others during it’s heyday. It was a rite known to Saint Augustine and shared by the Donatist church and the Catholic church there.

The Mozarabic rite was known all over Spain and continued to flourish under Muslim rule. During the reconquest from the Moors the rite was suppressed in favor of the Latin, and today is known only in Toledo in just a few of the parishes.

I don’t know if the Bragan rite is truly a rite as we would know it, it might be a usage of the Latin or a version of the Mozarabic. But it would be used in Portugal.

MonkeyTape:

     **Eastern Rites and Churches**

           **ANTIOCHIAN****-church**


**1. WEST SYRIAN**

• Maronite -Rite
• Syriac -Rite
• Malankarese -Rite

**2. EAST SYRIAN**

• Chaldean -Rite
• Syro-Malabarese -Rite

    **BYZANTINE****-church**

**1. ARMENIAN**-Rite


**2. BYZANTINE**-Rite

• Albanian-Rite
• Belarussian/Byelorussian -Rite
• Bulgarian-Rite
• Czech -Rite
• Krizevci-Rite
• Greek-Rite
• Hungarian -Rite
• Italo-Albanian-Rite
• Melkite-Rite
• Romanian-Rite
• Russian-Rite
• Ruthenian -Rite
• Slovak -Rite
• Ukrainian -Rite

    **ALEXANDRIAN **-church

• **Coptic**-Rite

• Ethiopian/Abyssinian-Rite

The list directly above should be reversed: for example the Antiochian rites (east Syrian and west Syrian) and the churches which use that rite. As such:

ANTIOCHIAN**- Rites**

1. WEST SYRIAN RITE
• Maronite -Church
• Syriac -Church
• Syro-Malankarese -Church

**2. EAST SYRIAN **RITE
• Chaldean -Church
• Syro-Malabarese -Church

Thus the whole list follows through the same way as I have indicated above. This then would be more in keeping with the nomenclature officially accepted today.

+T+
Michael

 

[MonkeyTape]

Interesting stuff. I need to look into the history and development of the Church.

Thanks for the corrections.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

MonkeyTape:

This is the list that I found of the Rites and Churches in union with the Pope. I didn’t count to see if there were 24 or not.

The only problem is that this seems old, in the sense that we no longer use the word “Rite” as they do and that the Western “Rites” except Roman are not individual Churches and are suppressed or no longer used for public liturgy.

23 - total

WESTERN OR LATIN - Tradition (1 Church)

ROMAN (also called Latin) -Western Catholic Church

• Roman -Rite
• Mozarabic -limited usage
• Ambrosian-limited usage
• Bragan-limited usage
• Dominican -limited usage
• Carmelite-limited usage
• Carthusian-limited usage

**Eastern Rites and Churches

**
ANTIOCHIAN**- Tradition (5 churches)**

1. WEST SYRIAN
• Maronite - Eastern Catholic Church (sometimes listed as a separate Rite onto itself)
• Syriac - Eastern Catholic Church
• Syro-Malankarese - Eastern Catholic Church

CHALDEAN RITE - formerly called East Syrian Tradition of Antiochian Rite
• Chaldean - Eastern Catholic Church
• Syro-Malabarese - Eastern Catholic Church

ARMENIAN**- Tradition (1 Church)**

1. ARMENIAN-Eastern Catholic Church

BYZANTINE- Tradition (14 Churches)****

• Albanian- Eastern Catholic Church
• Belarussian/Byelorussian - Eastern Catholic Church
• Bulgarian- Eastern Catholic Church
• Croat - Eastern Catholic Church
• Georgian- Eastern Catholic Church
• Greek- Eastern Catholic Church
• Hungarian - Eastern Catholic Church
• Italo-Grieco-Albanian- Eastern Catholic Church
• Melkite- Eastern Catholic Church
• Romanian- Eastern Catholic Church
• Russian- Eastern Catholic Church
• Ruthenian -Eastern Catholic Church
• Slovak -Eastern Catholic Church
• Ukrainian -Eastern Catholic Church

ALEXANDRIAN -Tradition (2 Churches)

• Coptic-Eastern Catholic Church
• Ethiopian & Eritrean (formerly Abyssinian)-Eastern Catholic Church

 

[Joe_Monahan]

See the Reference Thread linked below (particularly posts 1-4) on the Eastern Christianity Forum for an up-to-date and accurate list of the Eastern & Oriental Catholic Rites & Churches by one of the EC forum’s “experts”

SOPHIA: Eastern & Oriental Catholic Churches sui iuris

My brother, Michael, correctly described the situation of the Ambrosian and Mozarabic Rites of the Latin Church in his post above. The Bragan Rite is also extant; its celebration is limited to a single chapel in Portugal.

The “Rites” of the religious orders are rarely used, but most are still extant and permitted from what I understand, although not necessarily unchanged from their pre-Vatican II form. If you want to confirm that with certainty, I’d suggest that you PM the author of the thread to which I’ve linked above - I’m sure that he can definitively answer as to the present situation with respect to those.

Joe

 

[Elzee]

kleary:

The “Eastern Orthodox Church” is a seperated schismatic part of the Eastern Catholic Church. And yes, those who incensed JPII’s casket were of the Eastern Orthodox Schismatic Church. I guess this was allowed as an ecumenical gesture as JPII wanted to have them reuinited with Rome.

Which “Divine Liturgy” did you go to? Was it Orthodox or Byzantine Catholic?

It was Byzantine - The Divine Liturgy of St. John Chrys.

Our Bishop told us that we could receive communion and it fufilled our Sunday obligation for Mass. The priest saying the Liturgy turned and bowed to our Bishop at certain points in time (The Bishop was sitting in the Nave - his chair was moved in front of the pews). So, was their priest correct in saying they were a separate Church? I’m guessing he would know! but I thought this was just a different rite?

 

[Joe_Monahan]

Elzee:

It was Byzantine - The Divine Liturgy of St. John Chrys.

Our Bishop told us that we could receive communion and it fufilled our Sunday obligation for Mass. The priest saying the Liturgy turned and bowed to our Bishop at certain points in time (The Bishop was sitting in the Nave - his chair was moved in front of the pews). So, was their priest correct in saying they were a separate Church? I’m guessing he would know! but I thought this was just a different rite?

Yes, he was correct. See the link I offered in my post above.

Churches of the Eastern and Oriental Catholic Rites are Autonomous Ritual Churches or Particular Churches in the language of Canon Law.

And, btw, the “other” lung to which HH John Paul II, of blessed memory, made reference was our brethren of the Eastern and Oriental Orthodox Churches.

Joe

 

[Elzee]

Joe Monahan:

Yes, he was correct. See the link I offered in my post above.

Churches of the Eastern and Oriental Catholic Rites are Autonomous Ritual Churches or Particular Churches in the language of Canon Law.

And, btw, the “other” lung to which HH John Paul II, of blessed memory, made reference was our brethren of the Eastern and Oriental Orthodox Churches.

Joe

Thank you! :tiphat:

 

[1053]

Thank you, your answer is well thought out. I attend Orthodox Church Services in America and Russia.

 

[superblue]

Well if the CC says that even non christians can be saved and go to Heaven , then what difference does it make if one is Christian non demonational/ Catholic Orthodox, Latin rite, SSPX , Coptic, Methodist .

It just becomes splitting hairs and morphs into this no my side is right and yours isn’t;