The Catholic Church is just another denomination

  • Thread starter Thread starter guanophore
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Verily you speak the truth. Roman Catholics who do not recognize the Body of Christ outside her Roman Borders are in error. From the Cathchism:

819 “Furthermore, many elements of sanctification and of truth” are found outside the visible confines of the Catholic Church: “the written Word of God; the life of grace; faith, hope, and charity, with the other interior gifts of the Holy Spirit, as well as visible elements.” Christ’s Spirit uses these Churches and ecclesial communities as means of salvation, whose power derives from the fullness of grace and truth that Christ has entrusted to the Catholic Church. All these blessings come from Christ and lead to him, and are in themselves calls to “Catholic unity.”

Also as the late John Paul II pointed out, we are in most need of “the light of the East” meaning refreshment and re-education from our Eastern brethren from whom the Latins separated themselves.
also from the catechism:

846 How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers?335 Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body:

Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.
 
All other churches were created by “some guy”.
Such disrespect for your fellow Christians. :tsktsk:

They are as devoted to the teachings of Christ as you are, and IMO many of them may get to heaven before alot of us Catholics do.
 
We’ve been over this territory before, so we are not going to change each other’s mind. However…

You believe (correct me if I’m wrong) that it’s the Catholic Church and only the Catholic Church that has God’s official stamp of approval.

I believe, while the Catholic Church, is the primary church of Christianity, and has been since the beginning, it doesn’t mean that God does not recognize the other churches of Christianity, and extend his blessing to them as well.

Whatever denomination we belong too depends on what our conscience and faith directs.
I believe this:

816 "The sole Church of Christ [is that] which our Savior, after his Resurrection, entrusted to Peter’s pastoral care, commissioning him and the other apostles to extend and rule it. . . . This Church, constituted and organized as a society in the present world, subsists in (subsistit in) the Catholic Church, which is governed by the successor of Peter and by the bishops in communion with him."267

The Second Vatican Council’s Decree on Ecumenism explains: “For it is through Christ’s Catholic Church alone, which is the universal help toward salvation, that the fullness of the means of salvation can be obtained. It was to the apostolic college alone, of which Peter is the head, that we believe that our Lord entrusted all the blessings of the New Covenant, in order to establish on earth the one Body of Christ into which all those should be fully incorporated who belong in any way to the People of God.”

819 "Furthermore, many elements of sanctification and of truth"273 are found outside the visible confines of the Catholic Church: "the written Word of God; the life of grace; faith, hope, and charity, with the other interior gifts of the Holy Spirit, as well as visible elements."274 Christ’s Spirit uses these Churches and ecclesial communities as means of salvation, whose power derives from the fullness of grace and truth that Christ has entrusted to the Catholic Church. All these blessings come from Christ and lead to him,275 and are in themselves calls to "Catholic unity."276
 
You believe (correct me if I’m wrong) that it’s the Catholic Church and only the Catholic Church that has God’s official stamp of approval.
Well, it’s the only one that He founded in person. (See Matthew 16:18)

The others were founded by men and women who had some sort of disagreement with this Church, to the point where they became irrevocably separated from it.
I believe, while the Catholic Church, is the primary church of Christianity, and has been since the beginning, it doesn’t mean that God does not recognize the other churches of Christianity, and extend his blessing to them as well.
Insofar as they continue to believe and teach the truths of the Catholic Faith, certainly, God blesses them.

But God cannot bless things that are not true, and nor can He cause untrue things to become true simply because they seem to be more convenient to believe than the actual God-given Truth that we find in His own Church.
 
We’ve been over this territory before, so we are not going to change each other’s mind. However…

You believe (correct me if I’m wrong) that it’s the Catholic Church and only the Catholic Church that has God’s official stamp of approval.

I believe, while the Catholic Church, is the primary church of Christianity, and has been since the beginning, it doesn’t mean that God does not recognize the other churches of Christianity, and extend his blessing to them as well.

Whatever denomination we belong too depends on what our conscience and faith directs.
this is some of what the early church Fathers believed.

Saint Gregory the Great: “The holy universal Church teaches that God cannot be truly adored except within its fold; she affirms that all those who are separated from her will not be saved.” [Moral. in Job. XIV,5 (CH 158)].

Saint Jerome (died A.D. 420): “As I follow no leader save Christ, so I communicate with none but your blessedness, that is, with the Chair of Peter. For this, I know, is the rock on which the Church is built. …This is the ark of Noah, and he who is not found in it shall perish when the flood prevails. …And as for heretics, I have never spared them; on the contrary, I have seen to it in every possible way that the Church’s enemies are also my enemies.” (Manual of Patrology and History of Theology)

Saint Augustine (died A.D. 430): “No man can find salvation except in the Catholic Church. Outside the Catholic Church one can have everything except salvation. One can have honor, one can have the sacraments, one can sing alleluia, one can answer amen, one can have faith in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost, and preach it too, but never can one find salvation except in the Catholic Church.” (Sermo ad Caesariensis Ecclesia plebem)

Saint John Chrysostom, Doctor, (died A.D. 407): “We know that salvation belongs to the Church alone, and that no one can partake of Christ nor be saved outside the Catholic Church and the Catholic Faith.” (De Capto Eutropia)
 
Alex Jones, in his book No Price Too High says:

“The Catholic Church is the church of Jesus Christ. This is the Church that was inaugurated in the Upper Room. This is the Church that has the gifts of perpetuity and incorruptibility. This is the Church of Jesus Christ, and what it teaches is truth!”

he also brought about 52 people from his church into the fullness of truth.
You didn’t answer my question. Could you please?👍
 
We’ve been over this territory before, so we are not going to change each other’s mind. However…

You believe (correct me if I’m wrong) that it’s the Catholic Church and only the Catholic Church that has God’s official stamp of approval.

I believe, while the Catholic Church, is the primary church of Christianity, and has been since the beginning, it doesn’t mean that God does not recognize the other churches of Christianity, and extend his blessing to them as well.

Whatever denomination we belong too depends on what our conscience and faith directs.
Amen to that.
Reading Alex Jones’ book, even he had problems with the lack of acceptance of African-American music into the service. What does that tell us?
 
There is the word I feel again. I wouldn’t use feelings to justify judging Catholics, which you are doing? Do you presume what is in a man’s heart?

The Roman Catholic Church is the Latin Rite Church (West). That is how we would describe the Western Catholics. Our Eastern Rite or Byzantine Rite Catholic is also a member of this Body. The Church is not merely Roman Catholic. It is Catholic Church.

St. Ignatius of Antioch, the Apostle of St. John the Apostle describes the Jesus Christ’s Church very well in his writings.

((continue))
You pointedly avoid my question.
As for feelings, yes I think my impressions are a valid basis in conjunction with other things to form an opinion. As for judgment, I have seen many, many people form judgments about non-Catholic as indeed is happening on this thread.
I don’t need to presume what is in someone’s heart, I see it in their posts. I can point out several expressions of sinful pride in just this thread.
 
You pointedly avoid my question.
As for feelings, yes I think my impressions are a valid basis in conjunction with other things to form an opinion. As for judgment, I have seen many, many people form judgments about non-Catholic as indeed is happening on this thread.
I don’t need to presume what is in someone’s heart, I see it in their posts.
So you claim you can read a man’s heart. You can’t based on what is a man’s heart based on posts. The internet is limited only to the words that is type, but lack the expression made on their faces. Second, a man cannot read hearts.

To say this,
catholic church doesn’t equal the Roman Catholic church
it seems to negate itself. The Roman Catholic Church is the Catholic Church. It’s been like that since the Day of Pentecost.
 
You didn’t answer my question. Could you please?👍
what’s the question?:confused:
Alex Jones realized that his theology and worship were flawed and the fullness of truth was in the Catholic church.
he also realized that the Catholic church was the church Christ started and none of the others including his own could claim anything close to that. therefore he sacrificed everything to be in the One true church. he then went back to school to learn and further understand Catholic theology and become a deacon. 👍
 
what’s the question?:confused:
Alex Jones realized that his theology and worship were flawed and the fullness of truth was in the Catholic church.
he also realized that the Catholic church was the church Christ started and none of the others including his own could claim anything close to that. therefore he sacrificed everything to be in the One true church. he then went back to school to learn and further understand Catholic theology and become a deacon. 👍
He certainly doesn’t claim he was in a theological vacuum or wilderness tho, does he? What about his comments about the music?? Did you miss that?
 
So you claim you can read a man’s heart. You can’t based on what is a man’s heart based on posts. The internet is limited only to the words that is type, but lack the expression made on their faces. Second, a man cannot read hearts
No, I claim I can read English. If you can’t tell anything from posts then this whole board is a waste of time:confused:
The Roman Catholic Church is the Catholic Church. It’s been like that since the Day of Pentecost.
No, catholic means universal as I’m sure you know.
 
No, I claim I can read English. If you can’t tell anything from posts then this whole board is a waste of time:confused:

No, catholic means universal as I’m sure you know.
Yes of course it means universal. I also told that this Catholic Church consist of two Rites, Latin (Roman) and Eastern (Byzantine) Rite.

Roman is a Rite. I need to ask you a question. Have you been to an Eastern Rite Catholic Church? Go there and visit. He will tell you he is Catholic.

Likewise, I also call myself Catholic. I am in the Latin Rite and the other is Byzantine Rite.
 
There’s more rites than just the two tho. There’s Oriental Rites isn’t there?
 
He certainly doesn’t claim he was in a theological vacuum or wilderness tho, does he? What about his comments about the music?? Did you miss that?
Alex Jones actually spoke at my church recently.

you don’t think he wondered by what authority he had to interpret scripture or teach?
why not keep his old church then?
he said he missed some of the music but that sort of music has it’s place. he said you can attend mass and do that sort of music at some other time. praise doesn’t have to be limited to an hour of the week. but that sort of music had no place in the sacred liturgy, and he realized that. he even admits his services began to have a more catholic liturgical form but there was no way they could BE Catholic because he had no authority. so he left to be in the TRUE Church. not just shifting to some other denomintaion.
 
There’s more rites than just the two tho. There’s Oriental Rites isn’t there?
Yes, it is called Byzantine Rite also called Oriental. There are only two rites, Latin (Roman) and Eastern aka Oriental Rite or Byzantine Rite.
 
well if that “sort of music” has no place in the liturgy then why is it used in African Catholic services?
don’t you think he has been socialised and conformed too much?
 
No, I claim I can read English. If you can’t tell anything from posts then this whole board is a waste of time:confused:

No, catholic means universal as I’m sure you know.
And which one is universal? (Meaning, it existed in 30 AD, and exists right now, and can be found in every country where there are believers in Jesus.)

The Roman Catholic Church is the only one that fits the criteria of “Universal Church.” (We even have a Lunar Diocese - if ever any Catholics go to the Moon, we’re all set and ready for them! 👍 )
 
Yes, it is called Byzantine Rite also called Oriental. There are only two rites, Latin (Roman) and Eastern aka Oriental Rite or Byzantine Rite.
No, Eastern and Oriental Rite are separate. Then you have sedevacantists as well…
 
  1. Byzantine Catholics
  2. The Byzantine Catholics are those who correspond to the Orthodox. They all use the same (Byzantine) Rite; but they are not all organized as one body. They form seven groups:
the Melkites in Syria and Egypt (about 110,000), under a Patriarch of Antioch who administers, and bears the titles of, Alexandria and Jerusalem too. They have eleven dioceses and use Arabic liturgically with fragments Greek, though any of their priests may (and some do) celebrate entirely in Greek. The old name “Melkite”, which meant originally one who accepted the decrees of Chalcedon (and the imperial laws), as against the Jacobites and Copts, is now used only for these Catholics.
There are a few hundred Catholics of this Rite in Greece and Turkey in Europe. They use Greek liturgically and depend on Latin delegates at Constantinople and Athens.
One Georgian congregation of Constantinople (last remnant of the old Georgian Church destroyed by Russia), who use their own language and obey the Latin Delegate.
The Ruthenians, of whom there are nearly four millions in Austria-Hungary and hidden still in corners of Russia. They use Old Slavonic.
The Bulgarian Catholics (about 13,000), under two vicars Apostolic, who also use old Slavonic.
Rumanian Catholics (about a million and a half) in Rumania, but chiefly in Transylvania. They have bishops and use their own language in the liturgy.

The Italo-Greeks (about 50,000), a remnant of the old Church of Greater Greece. They are scattered about Calabria and Sicily, have a famous monastery near Rome (Grotta-ferrata) and colonies at Leghorn, Malta, Algiers, Marseilles, and Corsica, besides a church (St-Julien le Pauvre) at Paris. They use Greek liturgically but, living as they do surrounded by Latins, they have considerably latinized their rites.
This completes the list of Byzantine Catholics, of whom it may be said that the chief want is organization among themselves. There has often been talk of restoring a Catholic (Melkite) Patriarch of Constantinople. It was said that Pope Leo XIII intended to arrange this before he died. If such a revival ever is made, the patriarch would have jurisdiction, or at least a primacy, over all Catholics of his Rite; in this way the scattered unities of Melkites in Syria, Ruthenians in Hungary, Italo-Greeks in Sicily, and so on, would be linked together as are all other Eastern Catholic Churches.
  1. Chaldean Catholics
The Chaldees are Eastern Catholics converted from Nestorianism. In the sixteenth and seventeenth centuries a complicated series of quarrels and schisms among the Nestorians led to not very stable unions of first one and then another party with the Holy See. Since that time there has always been a Catholic patriarch of the Chaldees, though several times the person so appointed fell away into schism again and had to be replaced by another. The Chaldees are said now to number about 70,000 souls (Silbernagl, op. cit., 354; but Werner, “Orbis Terr. Cath.”, 166, gives the number as 33,000). Their primate lives at Mosul, having the title of Patriarch of Babylon. Under him are two archbishoprics and ten other sees. There are monasteries whose arrangements are very similar to those of the Nestorians. The liturgical books (in Syriac, slightly revised from the Nestorian ones) are printed by the Dominicans at Mosul. Most of their canon law depends on the Bull of Pius IX, “Reversurus” (12 July, 1867), published for the Armenians and extended to the Chaldees by another Bull, “Cum ecclesiastica” (31 Aug., 1869). They have some students at the Propaganda College in Rome.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top