The Catholic Church is just another denomination

[MrS]

Ok, looks like the topic is Baptism: Is it necessary for salavation? I wonder why it was necessary for Jesus to be baptized with water by John? Hmm

Do you suppose He was setting an example for the rest of us, what with the appearance of the dove and all…

 

[believers]

(Salvation). Indeed when you are thirsty, the thought of water can make you salavate.

And when you’re hungry…

1Ti 4:6 If thou put the brethren in remembrance of these things, thou shalt be a good minister of Jesus Christ, nourished up in the words of faith and of good doctrine, whereunto thou hast attained.

 

[MrS]

I’ll believe the Word of God. You believe the so called scholars. I wonder if they were Catholic too.

And… I don’t know of any baptist that believes Peter was the Rock. Jesus is the rock. There can’t be two rocks.

1Cr 10:4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

y

you have a very poor education in Matthew.

One of the more recent works on this verse, and this Book of Matthew is the Catholic Apologetics Study Bible, VolI on Matthew.

However, bias and fear of learning something revealing will keep many protestants from doing the research work. I pray Catholics will not be as stubborn (as I weas for 25 years).

.

 

[StevenFrancis]

Ms Coombe makes the mistake that many theological liberals and relativists do today; viewing the Church’s temporal mission as the only facet of import. Nothing could be further from the truth.

Throughout salvation history, God communicated with, taught, and disciplined His people through the use of various covenants. When He came to earth in the incarnation, He gave us the final covenant - the culmination of all the previous covenants - when He told us He was establishing His Church. He reigns over His kingdom today. That kingdom is the Holy Catholic Church in Heaven, in Purgatory and on Earth.

He wants us all to be a part of His family.

Just a little break here from the endless battle for a personal shout out. Rarely do I see here at these Forums, so much meaning packed into so few words. A true art form. Whether one agrees with you or not, (I do), this is eloquent, thoughtful and meaningful writing. As an aspiring writer, I thank you.

Peace to all,

Steven

We now return you to your regularly scheduled programming. We join “Religious Kickboxing”, already in progress…

 

[believers]

Ok, looks like the topic is Baptism: Is it necessary for salavation? I wonder why it was necessary for Jesus to be baptized with water by John? Hmm

You guys claim that water baptism saves. Do you think Jesus was getting water baptized to be saved? Jesus baptizes us with the Holy Spirit. He does not baptize us with water.

 

[nerfherder]

This is worth posting again - especially on behalf of the poor African natives and the Jesuit missionaries, and indeed others.

In the Dogmatic Constitution on the Church, paragraph 16, the Vatican II Council Fathers wrote: "Those who have not yet received the gospel are related to the People of God in various ways.

There is, first, that people to which the covenants and promises were made, and from which Christ was born according to the flesh (cf. Romans 9:4-5): In view of the divine choice, they are a people most dear for the sake of the fathers, for the gifts of God are without repentance (cf. Romans 11:28-29).

"But the plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Moslems: These profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day.

"Nor is God remote from those who in shadows and images seek the unknown God, since he gives to all men life and breath and all things (cf. Acts 17:25-28), and since the Saviour wills all men to be saved (cf. 1 Timothy 2:4).

Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through dictates of their conscience—those too, may achieve eternal salvation.

“Nor shall divine providence deny the assistance necessary for salvation to those who, without any fault of theirs, have not yet arrived at an explicit knowledge of God, and who, not without grace, strive to lead a good life.”

So the Fathers of the Council do not exclude anyone acting in good faith from the possibility of salvation.

 

[MrS]

And when you’re hungry…

1Ti 4:6 If thou put the brethren in remembrance of these things, thou shalt be a good minister of Jesus Christ, nourished up in the words of faith and of good doctrine, whereunto thou hast attained.

speaking of hunger…

“…unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man, you have no life in you…” could explain why you have the problem you have.

 

[mark_a]

Maybe you can explain to me what are some of the differnces that you see in the moral teachings of the see?

Mostly the sanctity of life issues. The most difficult are:

• no artificial birth control
• no abortion
• no divorce
• no euthenasia
• no destructive embyotic stem cell (or otherwise) research
  By the way, these are problematic for most Catholics too.

The theological arguments pale in comparison to these issues.

 

[MrS]

So the Fathers of the Council do not exclude anyone acting in good faith from the possibility of salvation.

very true… and the red is the key.

.

 

[jmcrae]

You guys claim that water baptism saves. Do you think Jesus was getting water baptized to be saved? Jesus baptizes us with the Holy Spirit. He does not baptize us with water.

Baptism comes from a word that means “to cover in water.”

There is no way to have baptism without having “water baptism.” The term “water baptism” is a nonsensical repetition of terms - it means “water covered in water.”

It is also impossible to be “without water, covered in water.”

 

[believers]

speaking of hunger…

“…unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man, you have no life in you…” could explain why you have the problem you have.

Let’s…

Jhn 6:51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.

Jhn 6:54
Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

Jhn 6:55
For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.

REMEMBER, JESUS DEFINED MEAT HERE
Jhn 4:34
Jesus saith unto them, My meat is to do the will of him that sent me, and to finish his work.

Jhn 6:28
Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?

Jhn 6:29
Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

Jhn 6:58
This is that bread which came down from heaven: NOT AS YOUR FATHERS DID EAT MANNA, AND ARE DEAD: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever.

Jesus = Living Bread (John 6:51)
Living Bread = Flesh (John 6:51)
Flesh = Meat (John 6:55)
Meat = work of God (John 4:34)
Work of God = believe on Jesus (John 6:28-29)
Believe on Jesus = have everlasting life (Jhn 6:40) Everlasting life is the result of eating his flesh.
Living Bread = NOT AS YOUR FATHERS DID EAT MANNA, AND ARE DEAD (John 6:58)

 

[MrS]

And the word for eat is best translated gnaw… and clearly means eating actual flesh… not mental devouring.

 

[believers]

Baptism comes from a word that means “to cover in water.”

There is no way to have baptism without having “water baptism.” The term “water baptism” is a nonsensical repetition of terms - it means “water covered in water.”

It is also impossible to be “without water, covered in water.”

It doesn’t matter. Splash, sprinkle, dip, immerse, whatever the case may be. John was teaching what happens when you repent. True baptism (that saves) happens when you believe on Jesus and repent.

 

[nerfherder]

And now we are apparently finished the baptismal kickboxing (I like the image), is there anyone out there willing to take on, in all conscience, my question is #345?

I need clear and concise answer, particularly in the light of Vatican II.

 

[MrS]

would you post John 6:66 for us…

I don’t have a cut and paste access right now.

 

[believers]

And the word for eat is best translated gnaw… and clearly means eating actual flesh… not mental devouring.

How does one eat the following?

bread of affliction (Deu 16:3, 1ki 22:27)
bread of tears Psa 80:5
bread of sorrows Psa 127:2
bread of wickedness Pro 4:17
Bread of deceit Pro 20:17
bread of an evil eye Pro 23:6
bread of idleness Pro 31:27
bread of adversity Isa 30:20
bread of the increase of the earth Isa 30:23
bread of mourners Hsa 9:4
bread of men Eze 24:17
bread of provision Jos 9:5
bread of God Jhn 6:33
bread of life Jhn 6:48

 

[believers]

would you post John 6:66 for us…

I don’t have a cut and paste access right now.

Jhn 6:64
But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.

Jhn 6:66
From that [time] many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.

 

[guanophore]

This is my opinion too, and for the same reasons you gave. But it appears that I am just making an assumption that all Christians are automatically a part of Christ’s Church.

No, this is no just an assumption on your part. This truth is taught by Jesus, and is in the Scripture and the Teachings of the Church.

I think I am finding some here who would argue that only the Catholic Church is the Church, and that others may be Christians but are not part of the Church. I’m not sure that is their argument. It seems to be a pretty big elephant I’ve stumbled on and I’m just going to try to digest it all one bite at a time.

People can argue, but it does not change the facts. Jesus came and founded a church. His church. there is only one church. All members of His body ar part of it. People saying others are not members of His body will not make it so.

(Got a feeling over time, that I may also get some contradictory answers from our Catholic friends here as well – not sure I’m considered a brother by all or I would have said our Catholic brothers and sisters – but that is something for Catholics to deal with internally I suppose.)

No doubt you will. However the Church has already dealt with this internally. The Church teaches that all who are in Christ are members of His body, and may be separated by doctrine, but are brothers and sisters.

 

[MrS]

Jhn 6:64
But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.

Jhn 6:66
From that [time] many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.

thanks… the point being that they did not understand, accept, or believe either.

 

[MrS]

People can argue, but it does not change the facts. Jesus came and founded a church. His church. there is only one church. All members of His body ar part of it. People saying others are not members of His body will not make it so.

did you mean to say that

All members of His Church are part of the Body of Christ
but
not all members of the Body of Christ are members of the Catholic Church

??