Uptight Lutherans?p.s. I know some pretty uptight Lutherans
Surely you jest.
Jon
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Surely you jest.
Jon
H
Hisalone
Guest
A
avenger
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Why must you argue with Scripture?
A
avenger
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and He also said James and John were sons of thunder. Your point?
Hisalone,
Whether you believe that Peter is “The Rock”, in the sense that Catholics do (The first pope, etc), or you believe that Peter’s confession is “The Rock”, or a combination of the two. The fact is Christ said what he said. To call Peter a stone seems to mock Christ’s words, though I know you didn’t mean it that way.
Jon
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ralphinal
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I am not. I am pointing out that Scripture must be taken as a whole to be understood. If you pull a verse out of here or there, you can end up with all kinds of issues, including homosexual marriage and more. We’ve seen it done all over the place. There is not a verse in Scripture that has its fullest meaning when taken alone. Not one. Further, there is not a single “Stand alone” book in the Bible. It is only though a wholistic approach to scriptures that you can see the full message from God to man. It is one reason that the Protestant Solas are so difficult for Catholics to grasp: they pull so heavily from the writings of Paul that they seem to ignore the other books of the Bible.
You tell me. Jesus said it, I beleive it. Isn’t that the Christian way?
A
avenger
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Does not the Greek word mean stone?
R
ralphinal
Guest
Jesus did not speak Greek to his followers, he spoke Aramaic. The word used would have been Kepha, which is rock. That is why Paul called him Cephas. Greek nouns have Gender, and petras (rock) is a feminin noun. In order to call Peter “rock” but not call him “female” required the gender change from Petras to Petros. Jesus would not have insulted him by calling him Nancy.
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Hisalone
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Peter is a rabbit trail at this point which I dont want to follow when it comes up in another thread we can exegese the passage.
What is important is that The bible specifies that the Lord is the rock and Catholics would have you belive He is not.
That’s not what I have heard Catholics say, but, as a Lutheran, I understand your position if it is to say that we as noncatholics believe that the Catholic Church expands Peter’s role beyond what scripture specifically states in terms of succession and authority. And with someone like Ralph, we can do it with mutual respect.
Jon
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ralphinal
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Nah, no respect needed
.Catholics hold that Peter is the Rock upon which the Church was built, but God is the Rock upon which we all exist and survive. Christ is the Corner stone, without whom Slavation cannot stand. We like rocks.
A
avenger
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True Jesus spoke Aramaic, however, you dont know what He said in Aramaic, since the written document was in Greek.
Rock on, brother.Nah, no respect needed
Catholics hold that Peter is the Rock upon which the Church was built, but God is the Rock upon which we all exist and survive. Christ is the Corner stone, without whom Slavation cannot stand. We like rocks.
Lutherans talk about The Rock being Peter’s confession of faith. I once heard a pastor explain the passage in that way and it sounded so torturous even to me as a Lutheran, that I came waway believing there was more to Christ’s words than that.
So, I would rephrase your quote above by saying I hold Peter *and his confession *as the Rock. Authority is still an issue for me, however. The rest of what you said is reasonable.
Of couse, you meant salvation, not slavation.
Jon
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Chancellare
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If I were you, would hesitate to accuse Catholic Church of ‘expanding’ beyond what Scripture states regarding Apostolic Succession. Otherwise you’ll have to kill the teachings of all Early Church Fathers - the ones who personally received oral teachings from the Apostles for lying.
Me? A simple, humble Christian? Kill the teachings of the ECF’s?If I were you, would hesitate to accuse Catholic Church of ‘expanding’ beyond what Scripture states regarding Apostolic Succession. Otherwise you’ll have to kill the teachings of all Early Church Fathers - the ones who personally received oral teachings from the Apostles for lying.
I think the Orthodox would agree with me that papal authority as we know it today is difficult to take from the ECF’s. However, your point about succession is noted.
Jon
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Hisalone
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Now which thread was it that ECFs wrote that bishops were voted into office?If I were you, would hesitate to accuse Catholic Church of ‘expanding’ beyond what Scripture states regarding Apostolic Succession. Otherwise you’ll have to kill the teachings of all Early Church Fathers - the ones who personally received oral teachings from the Apostles for lying.
C
Chancellare
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And that’s the main reason you guys don’t study ECF writings but would rather believe those who protested and made their new doctrines centuries later?
C
CWBetts
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What about the selection of Matthias to replace Judas Isacariot in the Acts of the Apostles?
H
Highwayhound
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Yes, I jest.Uptight Lutherans?
Surely you jest.
Jon
They are former schoolmates of mine. Phil and Val, married with 2 boys. Solid members of the community, Phil is a garbage man and volunteer fireman and Val is the county clerk.
God bless
F
Fisher
Guest
Amen
Acts 10:25-26, “And as Peter was coming in, Cornelius met him, and fell down at his feet, and worshipped [proskunei] him. But Peter took him up, saying, Stand up; I myself also am a man.”
Isaiah 45:18 For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited:** I am the LORD; and there is none else**.
Isaiah 45:19 I have not spoken in secret, in a dark place of the earth: I said not unto the seed of Jacob, Seek ye me in vain: I the LORD speak righteousness, I declare things that are right.
Isaiah 45:20 Assemble yourselves and come; draw near together, ye that are escaped of the nations: they have no knowledge that set up the wood of their graven image, and pray unto a god that cannot save.
Isaiah 45:21 Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the LORD? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me. **
Isaiah 45:22 Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else. **
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