"The Catholic Church is wrong"

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HankZ said:
You could have a point. However, how much biblical truth have you stuffed in order to remain in the Catholic faith, or do you claim to agree with everything the church teaches? Luther tried to change the church from within, but they refused to listen to reason.
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Again he was kicked out. How much truth has been lost on those who have left. You know what I find interesting about protestant theology. It’s like rebuilding the wheel the same arguments that were brought up in the first 5 centuries are still being debated. In fact, the most current threat to christianity is Pentacostalism which is a very poor cousin to Montanism.
 
HankZ said:
He nailed his 99 thesises to the church and they excomunicated him. He had already left.
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No. He still had hope that the Bishops would hear what he had to say when he nailed the paper to the door. You ever hear of Worms?
 
HankZ said:
He nailed his 99 thesises to the church and they excomunicated him. He had already left.
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Hank I don’t mean to intrude on your discussion but I need to correct this statement. Luther had not left the church when he nailed the theses to the door. That was the official way of requesting an audience with church leadership. What derailed the whole thing were students that got hold of the document and interpreted it. Rumors started spreading that Luther was challenging the Catholic Church which ultimately lead to the Pope instructing Luther to recant. There’s plenty more detail of course but it wasn’t until Luther denied the request to recant that he was excommunicated from the Church. Luther never wanted to leave, he just had no choice.

PEACE
 
sambos671 said:
Again he was kicked out. How much truth has been lost on those who have left. You know what I find interesting about protestant theology. It’s like rebuilding the wheel the same arguments that were brought up in the first 5 centuries are still being debated. In fact, the most current threat to christianity is Pentacostalism which is a very poor cousin to Montanism.
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Regardless of Luther, if the church is wrong, they change the way they teach. Are you believing in limbo? That was taught as fact, now it is not. What has been spoken of as truth for centuries is no longer taught. Or pugatory, that took hundreds of years to sell. Neither of which are actually in the bible. Priest rape children, and all the church did was move the priest to a new, unexpecting church with fresh families to destroy. These things are wrong.
HankZ
 
HankZ said:
You could have a point. However, how much biblical truth have you stuffed in order to remain in the Catholic faith, or do you claim to agree with everything the church teaches? Luther tried to change the church from within, but they refused to listen to reason.
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not one tiny bit.why?cause it is the biblical truth that i am faithful to Jesus,and obey His Church,which He gave His authority to…
 
HankZ said:
Regardless of Luther, if the church is wrong, they change the way they teach. Are you believing in limbo? That was taught as fact, now it is not. What has been spoken of as truth for centuries is no longer taught. Or pugatory, that took hundreds of years to sell. Neither of which are actually in the bible. Priest rape children, and all the church did was move the priest to a new, unexpecting church with fresh families to destroy. These things are wrong.
HankZ
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You’re jumping all over the place but let me start by saying that a detailed study of the history of Christianity you’ll find that things are not really defined until they come into question such as the Trinity or the dual nature of Jesus. Limbo was not defined it was generally regarded as a holding area. But as things progressed and questions were asked the more developed view of Purgatory was adopted. So you can say that there was consistant teaching all along. It just became more developed. I’m sure there are those here who can show you bible verses for purgatory though you will never find the word “Purgatory” in the bible. Just like you will never find the word Trinity in the bible. Yet you believe in the Trinity.
Priest raping children is horrible. Preachers raping women and children are horrible. TV evangelist stealing (embezeling) millions of dollars to fund their desires is horrible. TV evanelist sleeping or Masturbating in front of prostitutes is horrible. Strangely enough that preacher still is preaching despite the fact he was asked not to. Pastors wife murdering the Pastor for domestic violence is horrible. Does this mean christianity as a faith is wrong?
 
fbl9 said:
not one tiny bit.why?cause it is the biblical truth that i am faithful to Jesus,and obey His Church,which He gave His authority to…
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Where do you find that RCC is the one true church?
The true church is the body of Christ of which He is the head, that does not imply RCC in any way, does it?
 
HankZ said:
Regardless of Luther, if the church is wrong, they change the way they teach. Are you believing in limbo? That was taught as fact, now it is not. What has been spoken of as truth for centuries is no longer taught. Or pugatory, that took hundreds of years to sell. Neither of which are actually in the bible. Priest rape children, and all the church did was move the priest to a new, unexpecting church with fresh families to destroy. These things are wrong.
HankZ
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which one was that now hmmm.Jimmy Swaggart wasn’t it…bought sex he is still teaching today…
how about another one of yours he bought sex from a boy and the next day stood at the pulpit preaching against the thing he loves to do…yeah you guys are all soo goood…
 
HankZ said:
I agree that this was marvalous. Why do you believe Mary had to be spotless? This is not found in the bible. Nor does anyone ask for the dead to intercede for them, but to approach the Throne boldly, with prayers and petitions. Why waiste time praying for another to pray for you. Why wouldn’t you go right to the Big Guy? If you are one of His own, you can come to Him. If you go through another and foresake the Gospel, aren’t you telling God, I know better then you?
HankZ
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*One of the Commandments is “Honour thy Father and thy Mother” and this shows that God expects us to love and honour our parents. Can you imagine how he must feel about Mary? We are part of the Family of God and Jesus, Mary and Joseph are the Holy Family - a model family. I don’t think God take offense if we ask Mary for her help.

Look at the wedding at Cana. Mary took charge. When Jesus said that it was not yet time (or something to that effect) Mary gentle said to the servants, “Do as he tells you” and Jesus performed his first miracle. Mary does have influence. She is a loving Mother who always points us to her son. Why should this be a problem for you?

We Catholics choose to love and honour her and ask her to pray for us. You, as a Protestant dont. That’s OK. That is your choice. It doesn’t bother us so why should our beliefs bother you so much?

Huh?:rolleyes: *
 
HankZ said:
Where do you find that RCC is the one true church?
The true church is the body of Christ of which He is the head, that does not imply RCC in any way, does it?
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The Catholics will point to Apostolic Succession. The head of which is Peter who passed the torch on to Linus. (I think) In Rome.
 
sambos671 said:
You’re jumping all over the place but let me start by saying that a detailed study of the history of Christianity you’ll find that things are not really defined until they come into question such as the Trinity or the dual nature of Jesus. Limbo was not defined it was generally regarded as a holding area. But as things progressed and questions were asked the more developed view of Purgatory was adopted. So you can say that there was consistant teaching all along. It just became more developed. I’m sure there are those here who can show you bible verses for purgatory though you will never find the word “Purgatory” in the bible. Just like you will never find the word Trinity in the bible. Yet you believe in the Trinity.
Priest raping children is horrible. Preachers raping women and children are horrible. TV evangelist stealing (embezeling) millions of dollars to fund their desires is horrible. TV evanelist sleeping or Masturbating in front of prostitutes is horrible. Strangely enough that preacher still is preaching despite the fact he was asked not to. Pastors wife murdering the Pastor for domestic violence is horrible. Does this mean christianity as a faith is wrong?
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What is even worse is that the priest after being caught, were not punished, but given fresh children to rape. The vatican had a rule that the priest had to be rotated as to not cause the church any damage. As for the other preachers, I cannot see why they aren’t prosecuted, oh wait, they were. The priest walked away free and clear. They will face a much harder punishment on another day though.
HankZ
 
sambos671 said:
The Catholics will point to Apostolic Succession. The head of which is Peter who passed the torch on to Linus. (I think) In Rome.
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This is a false claim. How could there have been 3 popes at one time, yet they were all true popes and they excomunicated the other 2. What you retain is retained, right? All 3 are listed in the records as true popes. Where is the lineage of those 3. How about the wars they would have and kill, just to be pope. It was a very powerful position and you had to be ready to kill for it. That doesn’t sound like the church Christ founded. He died for us, not killed so he could control us.
 
HankZ said:
This is a false claim. How could there have been 3 popes at one time, yet they were all true popes and they excomunicated the other 2. What you retain is retained, right? All 3 are listed in the records as true popes. Where is the lineage of those 3. How about the wars they would have and kill, just to be pope. It was a very powerful position and you had to be ready to kill for it. That doesn’t sound like the church Christ founded. He died for us, not killed so he could control us.
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wars fought over the papcy,bogus as usual…
what you retain you retain what that got to do with three popes:shrug:
name a doctrine defined by these three popes…none usual play boring.
linage of the three huh???
you should really look at the whole story instead of the stuff you are fed… the truth is all three were disposed by council and a new pope elected.
 
HankZ said:
What is even worse is that the priest after being caught, were not punished, but given fresh children to rape. The vatican had a rule that the priest had to be rotated as to not cause the church any damage. As for the other preachers, I cannot see why they aren’t prosecuted, oh wait, they were. The priest walked away free and clear. They will face a much harder punishment on another day though.
HankZ
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Several priest and at least one Bishop were prosecuted. And you’re blaming the Vatican when the Bishop in charge was the one at fault. So Far the American Catholic church has paid millions of dollars out due to court rulings. And you are right they will have a punishment for their actions.
 
HankZ said:
This is a false claim. How could there have been 3 popes at one time, yet they were all true popes and they excomunicated the other 2. What you retain is retained, right? All 3 are listed in the records as true popes. Where is the lineage of those 3. How about the wars they would have and kill, just to be pope. It was a very powerful position and you had to be ready to kill for it. That doesn’t sound like the church Christ founded. He died for us, not killed so he could control us.
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Yeah the three popes that you’re talking about was not how you represent it. One bishop was properly elected as pope by Bishops. Certain bishops felt that the election had a flaw in the process and elected another bishop for the papacy and legal wrangling occured to see which one was properly elected. Finally there were others that were distraught about the process they just put up another bishop. In the end it was determine the successor followed the first elected bishop as was proper. That had more to do with procedural issues than 3 popes duking it out for the position.
 
fbl9 said:
which one was that now hmmm.Jimmy Swaggart wasn’t it…bought sex he is still teaching today…
how about another one of yours he bought sex from a boy and the next day stood at the pulpit preaching against the thing he loves to do…yeah you guys are all soo goood…
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Are you so deluded to believe that every non-catholic church is in the same group? If you are so bothered by rapes of innocent children by your priest and bishops and cardinals, then take it up with those who can do something about it. Don’t pretend I am affiliated with false Christians who have done horrible acts. I stand opposed to any and all mistreatment of children.
HankZ
 
sambos671 said:
Yeah the three popes that you’re talking about was not how you represent it. One bishop was properly elected as pope by Bishops. Certain bishops felt that the election had a flaw in the process and elected another bishop for the papacy and legal wrangling occured to see which one was properly elected. Finally there were others that were distraught about the process they just put up another bishop. In the end it was determine the successor followed the first elected bishop as was proper. That had more to do with procedural issues than 3 popes duking it out for the position.
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Sure. Which was the true pope in the lineage of Peter?
 
sambos671 said:
Certain bishops felt that the election had a flaw in the process and elected another bishop for the papacy and legal wrangling occured to see which one was properly elected.
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I thought the papacy was elected by the guidance of the Holy Spirit?
Did the bishops not trust the Holy Spirit? Or did He (The Holy Spirit) get it wrong the first time?

Interesting questions, no?
 
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