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benedictus2
Guest
Hey, if you’re a fool, then maybe that comes from even trying to reason out with one?
As they say, it takes one to know one:extrahappy:
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As they say, it takes one to know one:extrahappy:
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Matariel
Guest
Hey, get back to the end of the que line! :tsktsk:Hey, if you’re a fool, then maybe that comes from even trying to reason out with one?
As they say, it takes one to know one:extrahappy:
Just kidding.
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RonTheNewJew
Guest
I think that those who just say “the Catholic Church is wrong,” if they can’t explicate what it is they see that is wrong with that particular church, should likely need to go back home and study what the Plan of Salvation is, that was given to Moses at Mt. Sinai, and the prophets, Malachi, and Exekiel. This is where God the Father and His Son tell us, and at that time, the ethnic Jewish people (whose task it was to share the message of Christ’s actual, Biblical religion and religious calendar and His spirit with all the nations around them, but didn’t.
God, in Malachi and Ezekiel, had long instructed His people (and if we are Christians, we become Jews of the spirit, meaning we keep all of God’s only stated requirements as outlined in the two texts above, and in Leviticus 23 and in Deuteronomy) to spread His truth of forgiveness and hope to all the nations around Israel. That meant that they had to share with their less fortunate neighbors, and the widows and orphans and strangers. The ethnic Jews chose to serve themselves, instead.
God the Father and Son did NOT change the religion that both Members of the Godhead had given to the ethnic Jewish people. Neither did Yeshua (Jesus). Jesus said to His followers and His disciples, “They sit in Moses’s bench in the synagogues and teach. Listen to them. But do not do as they do. For, they say but do not do.” But when they sit in Moses’ seat, LISTEN TO THEM AND DO WHAT THEY SAY."
Speaking,as the Catholic Church seems to want to do, of “Sacred Scripture,” and the fact that Paul and the Apostles not only kept the weekly Shabbat, or in Greek, Sabbaton, for many years after Yeshua, the true Jew (one who praises God is all the word, “Jew” means), ascended into Heaven and is now in the Most Holy Place in the Heavenly Sanctuary. There he is ministering for us sinners with His own blood, sacrificed once and for all time for ALL sinners. But, the Aposltes also kiept thje annual Holy Convocations and annual sabbaths.
All of these Holy Convocations, which God called “My Holy Convocations, which you shall keep throughout all your generations FOREVER.” Jesus said, "Salvation is of (comes from or through) the JEWS. What He meant was that the true religion is the one He gave to Moses, yet He, Himself never is recorded to have ever slain a Passover lamb to cover, propphetically, for His own sins. He knew that He was the Lamb.
In teaching His disciples in precept and example, He kept the annual Holy Convocations and sabbaths while HE WAS NOT IN JERUSALEM. Jesus was already setting the example for his followers to follow. Paul did so at Phillipi and in other places. He said, "Christ, our Passover Lamb is slain. Therefore let us keep the feast (Passover). This was all many years after Christ’s ascension. He never, ever planned to have any other religion for His people.
The idea that God, who said of HImself, {I Am the Lord, your God. I change not, would then later on change His only statement of His own character, the Ten Commandments, and the Statutes and Judgements that had to do with civil behavior, and His religious calendar, by some sort of “inspiration,” is ludicrous.
When He said, “Behold, I change all things,” He meant that the New Covenant was, and is today, is the change from man’s promises to God about “All that the Lord hath commanded, we will do,” to “Christ’s permanent Sacrifice for sin.”
There is no futher sacrifice for sin on this earth. It was prophecied to be brought to an end when the Meshiach (Messiah) would come to earth and be the example of living the Law of Moses, which Christ commanded us to do.
The children of Israel thought they were worshipping God when they bowed down to the golden calf and other images. But, only when Moses interceded for them at Mt. Sinai in Horeb in northern Saudi Arabia, to lower the sound of His Trumpets, the sound of His voice, that God made a second Covenant with Israel.
Then they promised “All that the Lord hath commanded, we shall do.” 2,400 years later, they still were the same selfish, idol-worshipping people,as the pagans were who surrounded them. God allowed them to fall captive to others many times because of their disregard of his Sabbath and all the other special sabbaths and Holy Convocations. They did the animal sacrifices and washings and other ceremonies surrounding the animal sacrifices, but for the most part, only because they thought they were appeasing an angry God.
The angry God thing is HaSatan’s big device that he uses against God and God’s own people, US. But, that is why Yeshua (Jesus) came to earth, lived the Law of Moses perfectly, and was slain by the conspiracy of the chief priests and the Roman pagans, for doing so, and teaching others to follow Him.
The real, Scriptural truth is, it is time to return to the religion the Jews, though they practiced the days at the appointed times (appointed by God), they did not practice the ways.
Christ gave them, and us the ways and ratified His Covenant with His own blood, as He does to this very day.
Shalom Aleichem, in Yeshua Hamaschiach. (Jesus, the Messiah)
Ron, The New Jew.
God, in Malachi and Ezekiel, had long instructed His people (and if we are Christians, we become Jews of the spirit, meaning we keep all of God’s only stated requirements as outlined in the two texts above, and in Leviticus 23 and in Deuteronomy) to spread His truth of forgiveness and hope to all the nations around Israel. That meant that they had to share with their less fortunate neighbors, and the widows and orphans and strangers. The ethnic Jews chose to serve themselves, instead.
God the Father and Son did NOT change the religion that both Members of the Godhead had given to the ethnic Jewish people. Neither did Yeshua (Jesus). Jesus said to His followers and His disciples, “They sit in Moses’s bench in the synagogues and teach. Listen to them. But do not do as they do. For, they say but do not do.” But when they sit in Moses’ seat, LISTEN TO THEM AND DO WHAT THEY SAY."
Speaking,as the Catholic Church seems to want to do, of “Sacred Scripture,” and the fact that Paul and the Apostles not only kept the weekly Shabbat, or in Greek, Sabbaton, for many years after Yeshua, the true Jew (one who praises God is all the word, “Jew” means), ascended into Heaven and is now in the Most Holy Place in the Heavenly Sanctuary. There he is ministering for us sinners with His own blood, sacrificed once and for all time for ALL sinners. But, the Aposltes also kiept thje annual Holy Convocations and annual sabbaths.
All of these Holy Convocations, which God called “My Holy Convocations, which you shall keep throughout all your generations FOREVER.” Jesus said, "Salvation is of (comes from or through) the JEWS. What He meant was that the true religion is the one He gave to Moses, yet He, Himself never is recorded to have ever slain a Passover lamb to cover, propphetically, for His own sins. He knew that He was the Lamb.
In teaching His disciples in precept and example, He kept the annual Holy Convocations and sabbaths while HE WAS NOT IN JERUSALEM. Jesus was already setting the example for his followers to follow. Paul did so at Phillipi and in other places. He said, "Christ, our Passover Lamb is slain. Therefore let us keep the feast (Passover). This was all many years after Christ’s ascension. He never, ever planned to have any other religion for His people.
The idea that God, who said of HImself, {I Am the Lord, your God. I change not, would then later on change His only statement of His own character, the Ten Commandments, and the Statutes and Judgements that had to do with civil behavior, and His religious calendar, by some sort of “inspiration,” is ludicrous.
When He said, “Behold, I change all things,” He meant that the New Covenant was, and is today, is the change from man’s promises to God about “All that the Lord hath commanded, we will do,” to “Christ’s permanent Sacrifice for sin.”
There is no futher sacrifice for sin on this earth. It was prophecied to be brought to an end when the Meshiach (Messiah) would come to earth and be the example of living the Law of Moses, which Christ commanded us to do.
The children of Israel thought they were worshipping God when they bowed down to the golden calf and other images. But, only when Moses interceded for them at Mt. Sinai in Horeb in northern Saudi Arabia, to lower the sound of His Trumpets, the sound of His voice, that God made a second Covenant with Israel.
Then they promised “All that the Lord hath commanded, we shall do.” 2,400 years later, they still were the same selfish, idol-worshipping people,as the pagans were who surrounded them. God allowed them to fall captive to others many times because of their disregard of his Sabbath and all the other special sabbaths and Holy Convocations. They did the animal sacrifices and washings and other ceremonies surrounding the animal sacrifices, but for the most part, only because they thought they were appeasing an angry God.
The angry God thing is HaSatan’s big device that he uses against God and God’s own people, US. But, that is why Yeshua (Jesus) came to earth, lived the Law of Moses perfectly, and was slain by the conspiracy of the chief priests and the Roman pagans, for doing so, and teaching others to follow Him.
The real, Scriptural truth is, it is time to return to the religion the Jews, though they practiced the days at the appointed times (appointed by God), they did not practice the ways.
Christ gave them, and us the ways and ratified His Covenant with His own blood, as He does to this very day.
Shalom Aleichem, in Yeshua Hamaschiach. (Jesus, the Messiah)
Ron, The New Jew.
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Jimmy_B
Guest
Yes, let’s talk about “predestination” I would like to hear a Protestant response.
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twb1621
Guest
Not once have you shown credible support for your accusations or refuted my or many other previous posts that provided answers to your accusations. Could this be that you have no substantiation except for your own despise and ignorance toward Catholicism? Otherwise, keep your childish accusations to yourself or provide credible reference for what you are basing them on and at least acknowledge it if you have no viable rebuttal. This thread is not titled “cause I said so”…
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benedictus2
Guest
Credible support? My friend, you are asking for too much.
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benedictus2
Guest
Hey, I’ve been here a while. Surely, I’ve progressed a little in the queue. Hmm, so it hasn’t moved at all. Okay, where’s my chair.Hey, get back to the end of the que line! :tsktsk:
Just kidding.
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tqualey
Guest
Hi, Martin777
This means there are no rants against the RCC. Just keep it simple, present the facts as you see them and the basis for your belief. Don’t be bashful about supplying references.
I think benedictus2 wanted to join…
and I am sure there are others … so, let’s welcome all that want to participate.
God bless
You know… it is never too late to have a happy childhood. Ah, but this time, you are in charge!
I think the real message of Christ is Love - His Great Commission to all of us is to spread His Love throughout the world. This is really quite different from the ‘doctrinal intensity’ that has apparently enflamed your keyboard. Let’s both look for ways to spread the Love of Christ today - that really should keep us both quite busy…
Yes, I am… but, let’s put some ground rules in place
This means there are no rants against the RCC. Just keep it simple, present the facts as you see them and the basis for your belief. Don’t be bashful about supplying references.I think benedictus2 wanted to join…
and I am sure there are others … so, let’s welcome all that want to participate. God bless
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twb1621
Guest
I know. I think he attended one of those protestant “how to” seminars for converting Catholics and it isn’t working well for him.Credible support? My friend, you are asking for too much.
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sambos671
Guest
Yes. I did thank you for your thoughts. My experiences are what they are. Some good some bad. But if I had never been a protestant I may never have been patient or merciful with someone outside of my faith. God is soverign. I submit and praise him for all experience good and bad.
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Martin777
Guest
Blogging from ny Blackberry as I get ready to work (Yes, you can!). I didn’t ask to debate Calvinism, but rather the nature of salvation by grace through faith. The two do overlap, however. What I asked for was a discussion of Eph 2:8,9; Rom 3 and 4 and Jesus’ response when asked, “What must we do that we may work the works of God?”. Sweet grace! But…that will have to wait til tonight. I pray it will be more than mental gymnastics. God Bless.
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twb1621
Guest
It would be a pleasure to discuss these things rationally and honestly. I would also like to take part in such a discussion. But we really should utilize these smiley faces more I guess, including me… Don’t be stingy with the popcorn now…Hi, Martin777
You know… it is never too late to have a happy childhood. Ah, but this time, you are in charge!
I think the real message of Christ is Love - His Great Commission to all of us is to spread His Love throughout the world. This is really quite different from the ‘doctrinal intensity’ that has apparently enflamed your keyboard. Let’s both look for ways to spread the Love of Christ today - that really should keep us both quite busy…
Yes, I am… but, let’s put some ground rules in place
I think benedictus2 wanted to join…
God bless
My the Holy Spirit guide us all in love and humility on our path.
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benedictus2
Guest
It will be more than mental gymnastics. The Word of God is not meant to be used for mental gymnastics.
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benedictus2
Guest
Amen!
**Grant us all open minds and a listening and humble hearts. Oh yes, and a good sense of humour too, to laugh at our foibles.
**
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sambos671
Guest
You don’t understand Catholic Doctrine with regard to salvation. Really you should read the Catachism of the Catholic Church. (CCC). Its simple enough to understand. God save mankind by Grace through Faith. A man is drowning in a pool and God pulls him out. Now everything a man does to prevent himself from falling back into the pool is that salvation at work. The man even though has used effort not to fall back into the pull doesn’t consider himself saving himself but the one who pulled him out. He’s just excersising his responsibility and respect of the one who saved him by not jumping back in. Salvation from a Catholic perspective is inclusive of the Christian experience not just being pulled out or Justification. Sanctification is part of it. You leave out the Book of James as well. Luther called it a straw epistle. Hmmm. Wonder why?
As far as Mary is conserned: Why would Samson mother (in the book of Judges), have to follow the Nazerite requirements though she was not the one to be a Nazerite but her son Samson? She had to follow all the Nazerite requirements until Samson was born even though God had appointed Samson to be Israel’s deliverer. So since the OT is fulfilled in the New how then would it be any different for Jesus? And a greater one is Jesus to Samson.
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sambos671
Guest
Hey I got cheap DVD players for Christmas!It’s the prophet Martin777 - he has come to redeem us from the clutches of some ungodly church and thrust us forth into the light of Salvation, whereupon we will be set free of the binds of sin forever, destined to walk in the Glory of the Almighty for all eternity.
Oh, and he’s got cheap DVD players as well for Christmas.
Now, back of the que lady, some of us have been here all night waiting our turn
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benedictus2
Guest
I might consider you then when mine conks out. I pray it doesn’t as I don’t have the cash EVEN for cheap DVD players.
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sambos671
Guest
Because its too reasonable for you to disagree with. Not one of these verses takes on games of chance. It addresses greed. Business men are in business to make money. Are they wrong? They take chances too.
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HankZ
Guest
The “Old” religion of Jesus’ time, was not God’s religion. One clear example is when Jesus went into the temple with a make shift whip. He also spoke of His Father’s house being turned into a den of thieves. The followers of God had been replaced by hypocratical men who followed the traditons of men rather then the commandments of God. They simply made up their own rules and laws and acted as though these came from God. It had become a false religion. Can you think of 3 prophets who came from within the Church? They didn’t, they were sent to the church. Why did God send the prophets to the church, was it not to correct it? How then is it that someone outside the church tells you of the false doctrines being taught, do you say, your not a part of the church so you can’t know the truth? How do you know if you do not search the Living Word for the real truth? I know you will tell me, because other men say so, and you reject it just as quikly, but do you remember that God used a donkey to relay truth to Baalim? God is able to speak through non-believers as is the case with Baalim as well.It also says in the Bible that it’s a sin to call someone a fool… and you just called me one, but anyway…
So you ignore anything you can’t rebut? If someone is mistaken, you have a duty to show them where they’re wrong. So show me where I’m wrong.
My point is, I’m sorry you were exposed to nominal Catholics who weren’t living out Catholic values. In the Old Testament, there are numerous instances where the Jewish people and the priests-- yes, even the clergy-- were committing horrible acts of idolatry, even in the Holy Temple (like in Ezekiel, for instance) and prostitution was rampant. However, the Old Testament Jewish religion was still God’s religion, even though the Jews were behaving horribly, even the priests in the Temple worshipping idols of Baal and Tammuz!My point is, even if there’re rotten apples in the holy Catholic Church, it’s still God’s religion, and they’ve done more missionary and charity work than any other organization in the world. I think you look at the bad and emphasize it, and ignore the good.
FYI-I am exposed to “real” Catholics. I and a few other Christian brothers go a preach the true gospel to the lost(mostly Catholics) as they are going from bar to bar. I hear the same tired excuses from them as I hear on this forum. Yet I am told that I have it all wrong and how my Church is just like yours? I have never seen a member of the church I attend at this rampage of lust and drunkenness. Do true Christians fall, certainly, but we are talking to many of the same Catholics time after time. We are laughed at and made fun of. Sometimes they even get angry at us, much like the treatment I have recieved here. With this experience, when I come across someone I believe, has shut their heart off from hearing the truth, I pray for them and move on without waisting anymore of their time or mine.
HankZ
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