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HankZ
Guest
Not if He has sealed you.
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sambos671
Guest
S
sambos671
Guest
That is not an argument. In fact its a moot point.
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SD_Catholic
Guest
S
SD_Catholic
Guest
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twb1621
Guest
You gave no response to these so do you disregard as meaningless Scripture as those that follow?
For if we deliberately sin after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a fearful prospect of judgement. [Hebrews 10:26-27; RSV]
Please note that the “we” in this verse also included St. Paul - a faith-filled, baptized Christian! After Baptism if we sin deliberately and remain unrepentant, then we can lose the gift of salvation. In Baptism we receive Sanctifying Grace in our souls by no merit of our own, but afterwards we must cooperate with this grace or we will lose it (2 Cor 6:1). This cooperation with God’s redeeming grace is the Catholic understanding of merit (CCC 162; 2025).
Fortunately God has given us the Sacrament of Confession (Penance or Reconciliation), so we can receive His continuing forgiveness for our sins committed after Baptism. Since we continue to sin after receiving Baptism (1 John 1:8-9), we must continually repent, confess our sins and turn our heart (will) back to Christ. Repentance is not a single event in our life, but must be an ongoing, everyday process for us. Yesterday we may have sincerely repented and been forgiven, but tomorrow through our weakness, we may stumble back into sin (2 Peter 2:20-22). We can be assured that Jesus will forgive us as often as we forgive others (Luke 6:36-37; Matt 6:14-15). Through this Sacrament, we receive Sanctifying Grace and Actual Graces which can help us resist future sins.
Jesus understands our weakness even after Baptism. This is the reason that He gave His Apostles the authority to forgive sins:
…He breathed on them and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.” [John 20:22-23]
Through the centuries this authority has been handed on to the bishops and priests as the Sacrament of Confession. Christians today need forgiveness for their sins as much as those in the first century A.D. In addition the authority to either forgive or retain implies oral confession (disclosure) of our sins since the priest needs to know the nature of the sins (Acts 19:18; Leviticus 5:5-6).
Even though our personal salvation is not assured, we still must hope in it. In the Bible, St. Paul uses the phrases: “the hope of salvation” [1 Thess 5:8] or “hope of eternal life” [Titus 1:2; 3:7]. If we were assured of heaven, then there would be no need for hope. Hope is not the same as assurance (Romans 8:24). According to the Catechism of the Catholic Church (CCC):
Hope is the confident expectation of divine blessing and the beatific vision of God; it is also the fear of offending God’s love and incurring punishment. [CCC 2090]
The two sins against hope are despair and presumption (CCC 2091). The sin of despair is losing hope in our salvation by failing to trust God. The sin of presumption is losing hope by either relying on ourselves for our salvation instead of God or taking God’s mercy for granted without fear. Denying our sinfulness or believing “once saved, always saved” can lead us into the sin of presumption. However, we must not go the other extreme and fall into the sin of despair. Hope is a delicate balance between confidence in God’s promise and fear of the Lord (Proverbs 1:7).
God wants all of us to be saved from hell and come to know the truth (1 Tim 2:4). Through Christ’s Church - the Catholic Church, we can come to a knowledge of the truth (1 Tim 3:15; Matt 16:18). Through the Sacraments we receive God’s saving grace as a free gift. But afterwards we must cooperate with that grace, since we have the free will (choice) to reject God at anytime through serious disobedience, i.e. mortal sin. After receiving God’s redeeming grace in Baptism, we must continue to “work out (our) own salvation with fear and trembling” [Philip 2:12]. Through Confession, we can ask God for His continuing merciful forgiveness and more graces to help us resist sins in the future. As sinners we are not assured of our salvation. But Christians, who faithfully use the Sacraments -Channels of God’s saving grace - without giving up, can certainly hope for salvation.
users.binary.net/polycarp/hope.html
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sambos671
Guest
Define what you men when you say He has sealed you. I know you’re quoting scripture but essentially to exegete properly you need good definitions as any bible scholar could tell you.
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twb1621
Guest
You gave no response to these so do you disregard as meaningless Scripture as those that follow?
For if we deliberately sin after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a fearful prospect of judgement. [Hebrews 10:26-27; RSV]
Please note that the “we” in this verse also included St. Paul - a faith-filled, baptized Christian! After Baptism if we sin deliberately and remain unrepentant, then we can lose the gift of salvation. In Baptism we receive Sanctifying Grace in our souls by no merit of our own, but afterwards we must cooperate with this grace or we will lose it (2 Cor 6:1). This cooperation with God’s redeeming grace is the Catholic understanding of merit (CCC 162; 2025).
Fortunately God has given us the Sacrament of Confession (Penance or Reconciliation), so we can receive His continuing forgiveness for our sins committed after Baptism. Since we continue to sin after receiving Baptism (1 John 1:8-9), we must continually repent, confess our sins and turn our heart (will) back to Christ. Repentance is not a single event in our life, but must be an ongoing, everyday process for us. Yesterday we may have sincerely repented and been forgiven, but tomorrow through our weakness, we may stumble back into sin (2 Peter 2:20-22). We can be assured that Jesus will forgive us as often as we forgive others (Luke 6:36-37; Matt 6:14-15). Through this Sacrament, we receive Sanctifying Grace and Actual Graces which can help us resist future sins.
Jesus understands our weakness even after Baptism. This is the reason that He gave His Apostles the authority to forgive sins:
…He breathed on them and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.” [John 20:22-23]
Through the centuries this authority has been handed on to the bishops and priests as the Sacrament of Confession. Christians today need forgiveness for their sins as much as those in the first century A.D. In addition the authority to either forgive or retain implies oral confession (disclosure) of our sins since the priest needs to know the nature of the sins (Acts 19:18; Leviticus 5:5-6).
Even though our personal salvation is not assured, we still must hope in it. In the Bible, St. Paul uses the phrases: “the hope of salvation” [1 Thess 5:8] or “hope of eternal life” [Titus 1:2; 3:7]. If we were assured of heaven, then there would be no need for hope. Hope is not the same as assurance (Romans 8:24). According to the Catechism of the Catholic Church (CCC):
Hope is the confident expectation of divine blessing and the beatific vision of God; it is also the fear of offending God’s love and incurring punishment. [CCC 2090]
The two sins against hope are despair and presumption (CCC 2091). The sin of despair is losing hope in our salvation by failing to trust God. The sin of presumption is losing hope by either relying on ourselves for our salvation instead of God or taking God’s mercy for granted without fear. Denying our sinfulness or believing “once saved, always saved” can lead us into the sin of presumption. However, we must not go the other extreme and fall into the sin of despair. Hope is a delicate balance between confidence in God’s promise and fear of the Lord (Proverbs 1:7).
God wants all of us to be saved from hell and come to know the truth (1 Tim 2:4). Through Christ’s Church - the Catholic Church, we can come to a knowledge of the truth (1 Tim 3:15; Matt 16:18). Through the Sacraments we receive God’s saving grace as a free gift. But afterwards we must cooperate with that grace, since we have the free will (choice) to reject God at anytime through serious disobedience, i.e. mortal sin. After receiving God’s redeeming grace in Baptism, we must continue to “work out (our) own salvation with fear and trembling” [Philip 2:12]. Through Confession, we can ask God for His continuing merciful forgiveness and more graces to help us resist sins in the future. As sinners we are not assured of our salvation. But Christians, who faithfully use the Sacraments -Channels of God’s saving grace - without giving up, can certainly hope for salvation.
users.binary.net/polycarp/hope.html
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HankZ
Guest
This is not out of context. He gave an example, but this is not the extent of how traditions are viewed more important than the scriptures given by God. The RCC teaches agaist biblical truth on the story of creation, and Noah’s Ark.
If you find fault with God’s word there, I can understand that you would not believe that you can know that you have been saved. Traditions of men teach otherwise.
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Martin777
Guest
Once you have accepted the gift of eternal life and had your sins forgiven, which future sin was not already punished on the cross? Also, if Paul says that our old man actually died with Christ on the cross, how could we possibly be back under condemnation? (By the way, this doesn’t matter, but…I go along with the school of thought that says someone other than Paul probably wrote Hebrews. Still inspired Scripture, of course!)
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HankZ
Guest
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sambos671
Guest
You jump again. I don’t find fault with Gods word and that verse is directly related to the Jewish Hedge of protection for the Law. Yet it broke the law. The RCC does not teach against the Biblical truth of creation or Noah’s ark. Prove that they do.
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HankZ
Guest
No offense, but can you cut this post down into smaller, bite sized pieces?You gave no response to these so do you disregard as meaningless Scripture as those that follow?
For if we deliberately sin after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a fearful prospect of judgement. [Hebrews 10:26-27; RSV]
Please note that the “we” in this verse also included St. Paul - a faith-filled, baptized Christian! After Baptism if we sin deliberately and remain unrepentant, then we can lose the gift of salvation. In Baptism we receive Sanctifying Grace in our souls by no merit of our own, but afterwards we must cooperate with this grace or we will lose it (2 Cor 6:1). This cooperation with God’s redeeming grace is the Catholic understanding of merit (CCC 162; 2025).
Fortunately God has given us the Sacrament of Confession (Penance or Reconciliation), so we can receive His continuing forgiveness for our sins committed after Baptism. Since we continue to sin after receiving Baptism (1 John 1:8-9), we must continually repent, confess our sins and turn our heart (will) back to Christ. Repentance is not a single event in our life, but must be an ongoing, everyday process for us. Yesterday we may have sincerely repented and been forgiven, but tomorrow through our weakness, we may stumble back into sin (2 Peter 2:20-22). We can be assured that Jesus will forgive us as often as we forgive others (Luke 6:36-37; Matt 6:14-15). Through this Sacrament, we receive Sanctifying Grace and Actual Graces which can help us resist future sins.
Jesus understands our weakness even after Baptism. This is the reason that He gave His Apostles the authority to forgive sins:
…He breathed on them and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.” [John 20:22-23]
Through the centuries this authority has been handed on to the bishops and priests as the Sacrament of Confession. Christians today need forgiveness for their sins as much as those in the first century A.D. In addition the authority to either forgive or retain implies oral confession (disclosure) of our sins since the priest needs to know the nature of the sins (Acts 19:18; Leviticus 5:5-6).
Even though our personal salvation is not assured, we still must hope in it. In the Bible, St. Paul uses the phrases: “the hope of salvation” [1 Thess 5:8] or “hope of eternal life” [Titus 1:2; 3:7]. If we were assured of heaven, then there would be no need for hope. Hope is not the same as assurance (Romans 8:24). According to the Catechism of the Catholic Church (CCC):
Hope is the confident expectation of divine blessing and the beatific vision of God; it is also the fear of offending God’s love and incurring punishment. [CCC 2090]
The two sins against hope are despair and presumption (CCC 2091). The sin of despair is losing hope in our salvation by failing to trust God. The sin of presumption is losing hope by either relying on ourselves for our salvation instead of God or taking God’s mercy for granted without fear. Denying our sinfulness or believing “once saved, always saved” can lead us into the sin of presumption. However, we must not go the other extreme and fall into the sin of despair. Hope is a delicate balance between confidence in God’s promise and fear of the Lord (Proverbs 1:7).
God wants all of us to be saved from hell and come to know the truth (1 Tim 2:4). Through Christ’s Church - the Catholic Church, we can come to a knowledge of the truth (1 Tim 3:15; Matt 16:18). Through the Sacraments we receive God’s saving grace as a free gift. But afterwards we must cooperate with that grace, since we have the free will (choice) to reject God at anytime through serious disobedience, i.e. mortal sin. After receiving God’s redeeming grace in Baptism, we must continue to “work out (our) own salvation with fear and trembling” [Philip 2:12]. Through Confession, we can ask God for His continuing merciful forgiveness and more graces to help us resist sins in the future. As sinners we are not assured of our salvation. But Christians, who faithfully use the Sacraments -Channels of God’s saving grace - without giving up, can certainly hope for salvation.
users.binary.net/polycarp/hope.html
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HankZ
Guest
I’m sure you will not accept my proof;
I was taught in a Catholic school that God’s word was only true in the aspect that He created all the earth, but they taught also that Adam had evolved as the scientific world had(so called) proven.
They taught me that Noah may have built a big boat, but that the flood was only a small local one and that there could not have been enough room for all the animals.
Not enough proof, then go check out what the Catholics on this website are taught by the church. Mention that you think evolution is only a theory.
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twb1621
Guest
I do understand what you are saying, but these verses all pertain to what we do after our given salvation and our Lord, did not take our ability of free will away from us when He sacrificed Himself for us. In this case we do retain the ability to accept His offering of salvation but there are those who decline to accept it when they choose the path of sin. Remembering that in order for something to be considered a serious sin, it is in fact a chosen path, as one must know it is a sin and must choose to take part in it regardless. Therefore it is done with knowledge and free will. Wouldn’t you then consider repenting would be necessary to obtain forgiveness for those later sins?
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RonTheNewJew
Guest
I am here going to make some even more startling statements about the Scriptures, Old and New. I’m sure that it will raise a number of eyebrows in the Catholic communion:
God only outlined one religion. It is contained in Torah. He gave it to Moses and Israel to give to the rest of the world. The Jews, about whom everyone worries today, in terms of whether they will be “saved,” do not understand why more of them do not become believers in Christ. The reason? Most Christians, today, do not follow the religion that God gave the ethnic Jewish people. to whom He sent His only Son. True that they did not follow God’s commands to share it with the surrounding nations. That is the only reason that Yeshua (Jesus, the Greek word for the Hebrew word, Yeshua) came to live the Law He gave Moses perfectly, and then to Sacrifice His earthly life, that we might have everlasting Life with Him in the earth made new.
God bless you and your hearts as you contemplate His truth as contained in his LITERAL Word.
- When the first Judeo-Christians (“Judeo” because the first Christians, for some time after Yeshua–Jesus) went to "break bread on the first day of the week, as the Sabbath began dawning toward the first day of the week, it was at or nearly sundown at the end of the seventh-day Sabbath. The only Sabbath of the only Fourth Commandment in the Decalogue (the Ten Commandments). Ask your priest if this is not true.
- In Hebrews, Chapter 4, vs. 8, Paul said, “There remains, therefore a Sabbath rest for the people of God.” It is there talking about “entering into the Rest of God, even as He rested upon the seventh day from all His works.” (Creation, before sin entered).
This was Paul’s letter to the Hebrew Christian believers, who were already being challenged by Greeks and Romans who worshipped Tannuz and the princess, Diana, and other Greek gods on the days that those religions had prescribed. - It seems to me that if one is opposed to Sola Scriptura, then that places them in the ranks of a man who, only yesterday, said that, after he had won two elections using Christianity and his belief in the Bible as God’s word, that now that he faces no further elections, doesn’t really think the Bible should be taken “literally.”
Religious tradition and church-supported legislation, whether it is up front about it, or hiding behind “civil” authorities to do the work it admits it did when it persecuted, openly, those who used Sola Scriptura as the basis of their faith, doesn’t cut it with the unchanging God.
God only outlined one religion. It is contained in Torah. He gave it to Moses and Israel to give to the rest of the world. The Jews, about whom everyone worries today, in terms of whether they will be “saved,” do not understand why more of them do not become believers in Christ. The reason? Most Christians, today, do not follow the religion that God gave the ethnic Jewish people. to whom He sent His only Son. True that they did not follow God’s commands to share it with the surrounding nations. That is the only reason that Yeshua (Jesus, the Greek word for the Hebrew word, Yeshua) came to live the Law He gave Moses perfectly, and then to Sacrifice His earthly life, that we might have everlasting Life with Him in the earth made new.
God bless you and your hearts as you contemplate His truth as contained in his LITERAL Word.
T
twb1621
Guest
Sorry about that but it’s too late now. If you respond in parts it would be just as valuable though .
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sambos671
Guest
That may very well be true. In fact, I’m sure it is. However, there are several schools of thought about this in the Catholic Church some take a literal meaning others don’t. The fact is what do you condiser is the biblical truths of these stories? That they happened literally or that 1) God created the universe. 2) There are no other gods apart from him 3) That he is soverign 4) That He established order 5) He created man in his own image 6) Man by his own volition fell and needs redemption 7) God supplies that redemption himself 8) God is just and requires payment for sin 9) God has mercy. Did your Catholic teachers teach against any of these principles? What passages in the bible don’t you take literally? "this is my Body "?
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twb1621
Guest
My question then would be do you claim the words of Jesus were deceiving or lies? Or do you claim the NT is fraudulent in itself?
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sambos671
Guest
Shalom,
mah shlomkha? Slihah, Are you Messianic? The items you mention about Shabat are not striking but very well known. You mention Torah but what about the entire Tanakh? Most Jews I know follow Oral tradition given by Moses in Devarim.
- Status