The Catholic Church not a force for good in the World...

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TheosisM said:
and he knew horrible racist Catholics, but all the Mormons were perfect.

I mean, does he think we buy this charade?
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Another attack on the poster while ignoring the outcome of the debate. It was not my debate. I just brought it to people’s attention to get discussion. Unfortunately, personal attacks seem to be a better way for certain catholics to do. Why do you think that the debate was lost by the catholic side?
 
Guyonthestreet said:
I agree with you. But sadly I dont think many receiving the services of said hospitals etc look on them as being ‘‘catholic’’ in a way that them being ‘‘catholic’’ will make a bit of difference to them once theyre recovered.

I dont know what the answer is - but theres something wrong somewhere!!!
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The moral relativist secular world which Hitchens and Fry are a part will not spend too much time on catholic charities. They were more interested in bring up the negatives that you have mentioned and other past issues that convinced the audience that the catholic church is not a force for good in the world. But it is also true, that catholicism is not doing well in Europe in terms of church attendence and in terms of PR. Many Europeans do not know of catholic charities that may exist in the US or of catholic hospitals since in Europe there is public heath care and public hospitals.
 
why_me said:
I brought up a debate that was on the BBC and the outcome of that debate. And I provided links to it. I did not say that the catholic church was not a force for good in the world. The resolution for the debate was the statement: The Catholic Church is a force for good in the world. The resolution was defeated by the audience. Before the debate the majority of the audience did not think that the catholic church was not a force for good in the world. And after the debate, more believed that it was not a force for good.

My own opinion: it is a force for good in the world. But someone needs to work on catholic PR more and get the public to agree with me.

Should the outcome of the debate be censored?
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Our priest made a really good point one time. During Jesus’s ministry, you never saw him in the Gospels running after people who didn’t agree with him going, “Hey, wait up…you misunderstood me…hey come back!”

He showed the fallacy in their arguement, he wasn’t afraid to stand up and rebuke, but those people were still blind and he just went on his merry little way.

🙂
 
why_me said:
They, the against side, presented their arguments very well. The catholic side did not have strong debaters. This affected the voting. The catholic church in europe has some work to do in overcoming the negative attitude of segments of the european population. It will not be easy but good PR would help.
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Unfortunantly, a catholic fate is not a pretty one. A Catholic and the Catholic Church as a whole is fated to get nailed on the cross just like Jesus. (Of course, I can only speak from a catholic experience, that is not to say non-catholic christians do not accept this fate, which I would hope they do too). In the history of Europe there has always been opposition to the Catholic Church, no amount of PR is going to sway centuries-old debate.

This debate only proves that for all the good the Catholic church does, people can only see the flaws. So any increased PR may actually be more harmful then positive.

Also news and media have a really bad habit of swaying public opinion. The best anyone can do is look inside your own hearts to find the truth, don’t rely on what you hear on tv, read on the internet, newspaper, hearsay, etc.

Things like these only strengthen the Vatican’s position. Whenever people throw stones, or yield a sword at catholics…well by golly we are going to fight back. It’s why we are called the “Church Militant”.

(sorry about the edits…pulling an allnighter. Time to stop :D)
 
Please show me where I lied. To my knowledge I have not lied. However, I have been judged. Are you sure that you are not confusing the two?
 
heathernoel said:
Well, if the BBC said it, then it must be true. :rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:
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It was on the BBC but not the BBC. The debate covers many issues. This time it was about the catholic church. But if you check the website the new topic for debate is now posted on their website.

I was surprised when they chose the catholic church for debate and discussion. I thought that it was a mistake and sort of anticatholic.

However, if the topic was: The Mormon Church is a Force for Good in the World and it was roundly defeated, some catholics on this section would be doing handstands. The glee would be hard to control.

The debate is a wake up call to all catholics who post negatives about other faiths. No one church is immune from criticism and there are many people who dispise the catholic church in Europe.
 
If you listened to the debate on the BBC, dispise is the correct word. The two against the motion showed that they dispised the catholic church. And the audience was clapping during their speeches. My point was simple: I have read a lot of negativity directed toward the mormons and the mormon church. And this negativity was centered in dispising the lds church. But no church is immune to this. And out in the world, there are many people who do dispise the catholic church. We should all work together to bring out the good in each other and not the negative. And it is sad when christians criticize other christians for what they believe. We can all work together for a better more christlike world and fight the secularists and moral relativists.

But why mock and ridicule each other? That is the point. 🙂
 
I do believe that the mormons are getting a bums rap on this forum. I was very surpised about the antimormonism on the catholic answers forum. And I consider antimormonism to be not about discussing mormon doctrine critically. But the more mocking and loaded vocabulary used by the antimormons on this forum. And I have claimed that it is uncatholic to post such posts. And so, I have defended the mormon church because I consider it to be a good church as I do the catholic church.

Those catholic posters who dispise the lds church are no different than the people who dispise the catholic church. They are taken from the same peapod. And as I have said over and over again, all churches have skeletons in their closet, and that includes the mormon and catholic church. Churches are made up of people and people are not perfect be they call themselves prophet or pope it does not matter. Imperfections will happen.
 
I agree and nothing wrong in that. As I have said, I have noticed that certain catholic posters dispise the lds church and use such vocabulary that show this dispising. I don’t agree with that and I don’t consider it to be christian.

From the audience, I sensed no love or understanding and their hearts were cold against the catholic church. I feel sorry for them but then again, I also feel sorry for the catholic posters who dispise the lds church.

What makes you think that I do not live in Europe?
 
joannazenobia said:
Our priest made a really good point one time. During Jesus’s ministry, you never saw him in the Gospels running after people who didn’t agree with him going, “Hey, wait up…you misunderstood me…hey come back!”

He showed the fallacy in their arguement, he wasn’t afraid to stand up and rebuke, but those people were still blind and he just went on his merry little way.

🙂
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Yes! Kudos to your priest.

I recall that was a very cool observation in Jesus’ actions, where he would speak the truth, and leave it at that.

All I know is if it were the case of any other human who merely “thought” they were God, would probably act another way…in a very human way-- disposed to brow-beating or superiority, temptation for tyranny.

Anyway, it would be nice if the RCC church would not be slandered, but this is expected. It’s also sad that the Christianity is being discouraged in the continent whose greatness was shaped by that very religion. I think we’ve been so far pretty, it will probably get harder if less and less people remain Christians, more persecution and hate will arise.

We don’t need to be “liked” to be right.

I don’t think the Catholic Church needs better PR, it just needs to voice its truths, and get its errant sheep in order who screw up Jesus’ message.
 
Are you people even Catholic? The fact that you have to take time to think of the ‘good’ that the Church is responsible for is pathetic. The Church is not a social services act. Why are you taking the bait - from no less than the rabid bigot Hitchens and company-from a merely secular arena? For heaven’s sake, read a decent history of the last 2000 years. From bringing about a framework of morality where victor nations stopped annihilating whole populations in warfare to bringing the world through the dark ages after the collapse of the Roman Empire to being the voice and the blueprint for the idea of Democracy and being the spiritual bulwark against the most murderous atheistic ideaology in the twentieth century. And on and on …

But It’s greatest contribution to the world:

The Church has given and will continue to give the ultimate gift of all - the actual Body and Blood of Christ !!!
 
Sad what is happening to Britain really. It is not just the Catholic church but Britain’s Christian roots in general that are being rejected in this poll.

I personally don’t hold up much hope for Britain anymore.

Oh well, they may not have Jesus anymore, but they do have Stephen Fry.
 
Darryl1958 said:
Sad what is happening to Britain really. It is not just the Catholic church but Britain’s Christian roots in general that are being rejected in this poll.

I personally don’t hold up much hope for Britain anymore.

Oh well, they may not have Jesus anymore, but they do have Stephen Fry.
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Let’s just be glad that France was spared from Britain’s direction through the help of Joan of Arc…

though I know they have their own problems, it’s not completely being swallowed up by secularism of the U.K. (with Islam at the gates to finish them off)

I think France in spite of its French culture has some traditionalist Catholic undercurrent ready to spare them if they so choose. I’d have to research French Catholics a bit more.
 
A force for good with some serious missteps along the way that still hang heavy in the air of the history and in some circles will never be moved past until perhaps more publicly acknowledged.

A) Genocide and slavery of the indigenous peoples of South and Central America, and Africa
B) The Inquisition
C) The Crusades
D) The support of HItler and Franco in the 1930s and beyond
E) The sexual abuse scandal, not that it happened, but that there were those who allowed it to happen over and over
 
Point #A was Spanish crown. When the Jesuits got in the way, they shared the Indians’ fate. Point #B is overstated and it tends to be forgotten that the Spanish Inquisition was a political tool. Point #C - it takes a lot of knowledge of history to understand that issue well, e.g. realise what was going on in Palestine for the relevant couple of centuries - the problem is the abuse that happened during, not necessarily crusades themselves. Point #D is a calumny when it comes to Hitler, comparing Franco to Hitler is a gross overstatement (to be polite), Franco truly had some support among the clergy, some of which crossed the line, but he was better than the communists, whose crimes against the Church and clergy were of the worst kind. Point #E shows a lot of wrong ways of dealing with the problem, granted.
 
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