M
Mintaka
Guest
Your Bible translation of Matthew 11:11 is erroneous.
Most Indo-European languages (like Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek) like to indicate whether one is talking about a “human,” a “man,” or a “woman.” Some masculine plurals include both sexes, but not all.
Matthew 11:11 talks about “among those ‘gennetois’ of women.”
“Gennetois” is a dative masculine plural adjective. It could include both males and females, or it could mean just males. Until modern times, it was nearly always read (in the retrospective, as people reflected on what the heck Jesus was saying) as meaning exactly what it says on the tin: “among those males born of women.”
This sort of wordplay or purposely narrow use of wording was totally acceptable in the words of a prophet or rabbi, and of course many literary sources and legends have made similar use of such expressions.
Even in English, we have the legend of Macduff, who could kill the wicked usurper Macbeth without breaking the witches’ prophecy, because Macduff was never born of woman but only C-sectioned. (Julius Caesar was similarly not born, strictly speaking (which is why they call it a Caesarian), but that never came up in Roman legend because their word for “born” just means something like “come forth.” I don’t think this is an issue in Hebrew/Aramaic either, but I don’t know that for sure.)
Tolkien riffed on this in Lord of the Rings, where [spoilers!] the wicked Witch King of Angmar proudly announced that “no man can kill me!” and was promptly offed by a woman and a Hobbit.
Sooooo, getting back to the point.
Secondly, the actual Greek doesn’t say bupkis about John the Baptist being the “greatest.” It just says no one has arisen among those males born of women who is “meizon,” which means “greater.” (That is, it is a comparative form of “great,” not a superlative form.)
Now, again, in many Indo-European languages including Aramaic and Greek, you can use that kind of construction to indicate that “this guy is the greatest.” But it can also mean exactly what it says: other equally great guys have arisen, but nobody greater. So there is some discussion as to whether St. John the Baptist is a greater prophet than Moses and Elijah, or just part of a small pool of equally great prophetic guys. (Moses and Elijah didn’t die as martyrs, though. Just saying.)
So strictly speaking, Jesus said that no greater man had been born of woman than John the Baptist, but He didn’t say anything about who was the greatest woman born of women, or even who was the greatest man. And since Jesus is the Word, you kinda have to pay attention to the strict meaning of His words.
Hope this helped.
Most Indo-European languages (like Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek) like to indicate whether one is talking about a “human,” a “man,” or a “woman.” Some masculine plurals include both sexes, but not all.
Matthew 11:11 talks about “among those ‘gennetois’ of women.”
“Gennetois” is a dative masculine plural adjective. It could include both males and females, or it could mean just males. Until modern times, it was nearly always read (in the retrospective, as people reflected on what the heck Jesus was saying) as meaning exactly what it says on the tin: “among those males born of women.”
This sort of wordplay or purposely narrow use of wording was totally acceptable in the words of a prophet or rabbi, and of course many literary sources and legends have made similar use of such expressions.
Even in English, we have the legend of Macduff, who could kill the wicked usurper Macbeth without breaking the witches’ prophecy, because Macduff was never born of woman but only C-sectioned. (Julius Caesar was similarly not born, strictly speaking (which is why they call it a Caesarian), but that never came up in Roman legend because their word for “born” just means something like “come forth.” I don’t think this is an issue in Hebrew/Aramaic either, but I don’t know that for sure.)
Tolkien riffed on this in Lord of the Rings, where [spoilers!] the wicked Witch King of Angmar proudly announced that “no man can kill me!” and was promptly offed by a woman and a Hobbit.
Sooooo, getting back to the point.
Secondly, the actual Greek doesn’t say bupkis about John the Baptist being the “greatest.” It just says no one has arisen among those males born of women who is “meizon,” which means “greater.” (That is, it is a comparative form of “great,” not a superlative form.)
Now, again, in many Indo-European languages including Aramaic and Greek, you can use that kind of construction to indicate that “this guy is the greatest.” But it can also mean exactly what it says: other equally great guys have arisen, but nobody greater. So there is some discussion as to whether St. John the Baptist is a greater prophet than Moses and Elijah, or just part of a small pool of equally great prophetic guys. (Moses and Elijah didn’t die as martyrs, though. Just saying.)
So strictly speaking, Jesus said that no greater man had been born of woman than John the Baptist, but He didn’t say anything about who was the greatest woman born of women, or even who was the greatest man. And since Jesus is the Word, you kinda have to pay attention to the strict meaning of His words.
Hope this helped.
Last edited:
is the word you might mean (for the subject).
