A
Ani_Ibi
Guest
Debunkerman said:
Tempus fugit.
- Status
Tempus fugit.
A
Ani_Ibi
Guest
dc dave:
I believe people post their views, giving links which they spend time finding, in the hope that other people might actually read their posts. Perhaps I extrapolate overly in presuming to know the mind of other posters, however. My bad.
I do know that I would feel hurt if I had gone to a lot of trouble to research and to think through a difficult question, then only to discover that my feeble attempts at offering an answer are met with a re-statement of the original question.
Under these circumstances, I would be tempted to say (in jest) the following: âWhat am I, avowed chopped liver?â
I suppose really I am looking for a little give and take instead of ⌠well ⌠take. :crying: The search window is such a tremendous bundle of fun! Such a timesaver for busy 21st Century forum members! I just cannot understand why someone would forgo such convenience, adventure, and discovery!
By the way, dave, why do the last 4 posts of yours say that you have 5 posts? Thatâs a bit technically odd.
Thereâs a search window at the top of the screen. Ordinarily I might post a link to the Pope quote. But I see that you have not offered links in support of your claims. I also feel obliged to admit that I am not overjoyed with attempts to resurrect a thread which has been closed.
I believe people post their views, giving links which they spend time finding, in the hope that other people might actually read their posts. Perhaps I extrapolate overly in presuming to know the mind of other posters, however. My bad.
I do know that I would feel hurt if I had gone to a lot of trouble to research and to think through a difficult question, then only to discover that my feeble attempts at offering an answer are met with a re-statement of the original question.
Under these circumstances, I would be tempted to say (in jest) the following: âWhat am I, avowed chopped liver?â
I suppose really I am looking for a little give and take instead of ⌠well ⌠take. :crying: The search window is such a tremendous bundle of fun! Such a timesaver for busy 21st Century forum members! I just cannot understand why someone would forgo such convenience, adventure, and discovery!
By the way, dave, why do the last 4 posts of yours say that you have 5 posts? Thatâs a bit technically odd.
T
Traditional_Ang
Guest
Debunkerman:
Someone has just demonstrated that wasnât the case.
It is one thing to question the CONCLUSION that someone comes to. it is quite another to question someoneâs MOTIVES for doing something.
Speaking of the morality of the invasion of Iraq - Are you saying that you would prefer that Saddam Hussein would have been left in power to continue to torture Iraqis and others to death by the tens of thousands (human rights groups estimate the toll at 500,00 to 800,000 just since 1991)?
Are you saying that Saddam Hussein should have been allowed to continue using food, water medicines and electricity as weapons against the Shias and others he regarded as disloyal or potentially disloyal?
Are you saying that Saddam Hussein should have been allowed to continued paying out rewards of $25,000 to the families of each homicide bomber who successfully blew himself and innocent Jewish women and children up?
Are you saying that Saddam Hussein should have been allowed to maintain training camps, safe haven and financial support for terrorists in Iraq and worldwide? That the evidence that he paid for the first WTC attack should have been ignored?
Are you claiming that you feel the same way about Saddam Hussein as Pope John Paul II and Pope Benedict XVI?
Are you saying the âInsurgentsâ who are slaughtering Shias (to start a civil war) and Iraqi women and children and trying to keep the Iraqis from forming their own country evil men should be allowed to win and run the country?..In spite of the fact that most of the âInsurgentsâ arenât even Iraqis, but are âForeign fightersâ brought in through Suria and Saudi Arabia? Thatâs what the ANSWER Coalition and friends want - they made it clear during the demonstration on Sunday.
Or, Do you think the âInsurgentsâ are evil and that we have to beat them in Iraq for the Iraqi people to have a chance a forming a prosperous democracy?
Are you sure you feel about the âInsurgencyâ in the same way that Pope JP II did and Pope Benedict XVI does?
If you wish to have a conservation based on the facts, Iâll be more than happyâŚ
God Bless.
In Christ, Michael
T
Traditional_Ang
Guest
Hear! Hear!
Well Said.
Michael
R
Robert_Bay
Guest
EVERYONE
Please keep on the topic of the original post.
Please keep on the topic of the original post.
T
Traditional_Ang
Guest
dc dave:
It is normal for those making an affirmative statement to provide support for their statement. In this case, you claim to know the positions of three different people regarding the War in Iraq.
It is normal procedure for the person making that claim to provide some support for the claim. Could you please do so? Could you please supply at least one link for Cindy Sheehan and at least one for the Popes?
This is esp. necessary since the American Invasion in Iraq is supportable under both Just War Doctrine and that of the Deposition or Regicide of a truly unjust Ruler who canât be removed by other means.
You will agree that Saddam Hussein is guilty of everything I charged him with in my post to Debunkerman 2 posts ago? You will agree that Saddam Hussein was NOT leaving voluntarily? Right? âŚ
dc dave:
That country was freed in 1991. As a condition of the Truce Saddam Hussein and Iraq agreed to numerous concessions in exchange for not being deposed then and there.
Hussein violated each and every one of those. Iâve even document some of those in a previous post. The final ones (plural violations) were his refusals to abide by the No-Fly Zones (Iraqi AAA and SAMs fired at the planes enforcing the No Fly zones), the conditions of the Oil-Food Program requiring that money acquired through the program be used for food and medicine and not arms (and that the food and medicine be distributed to ALL Iraqis and not just to Husseinâs chronies), and that he allow the arms inspectors unfettered and unlimited access to all sites of their choosing (rooms were buggedâŚ).
According to the rules by which the truce was arranged, there really never was one in place.
No, Iâm absolutely mystified that you would believe that the Al-Queda people blowing things up in Iraq would allow Iraq to be peaceful after weâve left.
Theyâve stated in many places that they are committed to a Theocratic Islamic Republic resulting in a giant Khalifate, the extent of which boggles the imagination.
I assume you understand the lack of rights of women, gays and religious minoritors in such a state, and that these people would have status ranging between Dhimmi and Khafir (most Khafir in Wahabbi society).
Is that what you want for the people of Iraq?
Since most of the peole of Iraq have tasted Liberty, theyâre not going to accept that without a lot of violence by Al Queda against innocent men, women and children.
Is that what you want for the people of Iraq?
Once the Wahabbists extremists have won, theyâll make terrorist training camps and export terroists to Europe, Israel and here. Meaning that lots of innocent people will be slaughtered, most while riding the bus, worshipping at Mass, attending school or eating at a restaurant.
Is that what you want for us?
I remind you that Al Queda has said what they intend to do if given the chance.
In Christ, Michael
It is normal for those making an affirmative statement to provide support for their statement. In this case, you claim to know the positions of three different people regarding the War in Iraq.
It is normal procedure for the person making that claim to provide some support for the claim. Could you please do so? Could you please supply at least one link for Cindy Sheehan and at least one for the Popes?
This is esp. necessary since the American Invasion in Iraq is supportable under both Just War Doctrine and that of the Deposition or Regicide of a truly unjust Ruler who canât be removed by other means.
You will agree that Saddam Hussein is guilty of everything I charged him with in my post to Debunkerman 2 posts ago? You will agree that Saddam Hussein was NOT leaving voluntarily? Right? âŚ
dc dave:
⌠I believe that youâve got the history wrong. The War in the Gulf was started when Saddam Husswein invaded Kuwait, an independent country, in 1990.
That country was freed in 1991. As a condition of the Truce Saddam Hussein and Iraq agreed to numerous concessions in exchange for not being deposed then and there.
Hussein violated each and every one of those. Iâve even document some of those in a previous post. The final ones (plural violations) were his refusals to abide by the No-Fly Zones (Iraqi AAA and SAMs fired at the planes enforcing the No Fly zones), the conditions of the Oil-Food Program requiring that money acquired through the program be used for food and medicine and not arms (and that the food and medicine be distributed to ALL Iraqis and not just to Husseinâs chronies), and that he allow the arms inspectors unfettered and unlimited access to all sites of their choosing (rooms were buggedâŚ).
According to the rules by which the truce was arranged, there really never was one in place.
No, Iâm absolutely mystified that you would believe that the Al-Queda people blowing things up in Iraq would allow Iraq to be peaceful after weâve left.
Theyâve stated in many places that they are committed to a Theocratic Islamic Republic resulting in a giant Khalifate, the extent of which boggles the imagination.
I assume you understand the lack of rights of women, gays and religious minoritors in such a state, and that these people would have status ranging between Dhimmi and Khafir (most Khafir in Wahabbi society).
Is that what you want for the people of Iraq?
Since most of the peole of Iraq have tasted Liberty, theyâre not going to accept that without a lot of violence by Al Queda against innocent men, women and children.
Is that what you want for the people of Iraq?
Once the Wahabbists extremists have won, theyâll make terrorist training camps and export terroists to Europe, Israel and here. Meaning that lots of innocent people will be slaughtered, most while riding the bus, worshipping at Mass, attending school or eating at a restaurant.
Is that what you want for us?
I remind you that Al Queda has said what they intend to do if given the chance.
In Christ, Michael
T
Traditional_Ang
Guest
Robert Bay said:
Robert:
Iâm sorry.
I had typed my post in response to anotherâs post before I read your post.
Do you want us to just say that discussing the Iraq war itself is out of bounds?
I believe thatâs the only fair way to handle it if you feel that itâs off topic.
Sorry to reply to you this way, but my PM stopped working the other day.
In Christ, michael
T
Traditional_Ang
Guest
Debunkerman said:
Debunkerman::
So, What do you believe is worth dying for? or. Living for for that matter?
Mrs. Sheehanâs son seemed to believed that America was worth dying and living for.
How could he and his mother disagree so much?
In Christ, Michael
D
Debunkerman
Guest
Traditional Ang:
Traditional Ang:
I read that Casey Sheehan enlisted in the army in 2000 with the goal of becoming a chaplainâs assistant. I read he had a special love for his Church. His mother was the parish youth minister for eight years. Casey told his mother he did not want to kill anyone. At the University of Maryland Cindy Sheehan said, âKilling people is wrong.â
What did they disagree about so much?
My Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
Traditional Ang:
Casey Sheehan may have believed an Army recruiter.
I read that Casey Sheehan enlisted in the army in 2000 with the goal of becoming a chaplainâs assistant. I read he had a special love for his Church. His mother was the parish youth minister for eight years. Casey told his mother he did not want to kill anyone. At the University of Maryland Cindy Sheehan said, âKilling people is wrong.â
What did they disagree about so much?
A
aimee
Guest
This thread is just a re hash of the sameâŚ
Also, seems disingenuous to me.
Also, seems disingenuous to me.
A
abcdefg
Guest
Traditional Ang:
Debunkerman:
Will you please elaborate. for example which of the following is for Jesus Christ?
a) KIA (killed in action) or executed for fighting NAZIs in WW2
b) executed for religious believes
c) suicide to avoid religious persecution
d) KIA or executed for fighting communists in Vietnam
e) die a natural death
f) KIA for fighting US soldiers
g) KIA or executed for fighting terrorists
of course you can add many options as you like. but this is a question, and I hope you can answer it.
To Debunkerman:
Will you please elaborate. for example which of the following is for Jesus Christ?
a) KIA (killed in action) or executed for fighting NAZIs in WW2
b) executed for religious believes
c) suicide to avoid religious persecution
d) KIA or executed for fighting communists in Vietnam
e) die a natural death
f) KIA for fighting US soldiers
g) KIA or executed for fighting terrorists
of course you can add many options as you like. but this is a question, and I hope you can answer it.
A
Ani_Ibi
Guest
Oh! Youâre back! :bounce: And answering questions it seems! Yay! Good answer by the way to the question âWhat will men die for?â Not to say, of course, that women will not die for things; âmenâ here obviously means men and women.
Itâs a gorgeous crisp, clear day up here in the Troo North.
I should qualify my perception that you are answering questions. Youâve answered TradAngâs questions. Not all of them. Just a few. Trad Ang asked a lot of questions. Very good ones too. Evidently your statements are very thought provoking.
Debunkerman! I promised you that I would remind you to answer my questions when you got back. My most pressing question, of course, was: âHave you read any of the Sheehan threads?â
Oh, but I do not think wanting to kill people is a prerequisite to joining the armed forces. In fact, my Dadâs old war buddy would always say that if someone was sent into his unit who liked killing people, he would send him packing.
Nor do I think wanting to kill is really the issue here.
Casey, when he re-enlisted, knew which way was up; he knew what was expected of him; he knew he may have to be in harmâs way; he knew he may have to take someoneâs life. Yet he signed on the dotted line. That signature is where Casey and his mother begin to differ.
But Debunkerman, the question âWhat did they disagree about so much?â has been asked and answered in previous threads about Ms Sheehan. There really are much more interesting replies to your question than mine on those previous threads. I am hoping that today will be the day that you embrace the search window.:yup:
funfou.com/images/nevertoolate.jpg
If Martha Stewart were on CA, I feel she would say of the search window: âItâs a good thing!â
A
Ani_Ibi
Guest
Traditional Ang:
The quotes by the way are from a Terrence Malick film based on a novel by James Jones about the taking of Guadalcanal by the American marines: The Thin Red Line.
'morning, TradAng! One of those transformative questions.
What does that mean, I wonder: âYouâŚdeath⌠are the source of all thatâs gonna be bornâ? What was born in Casey in the face of death? What was born in Ms Sheehan in the face of death? What is born in us in the face of death?
The quotes by the way are from a Terrence Malick film based on a novel by James Jones about the taking of Guadalcanal by the American marines: The Thin Red Line.
N
NWUArmyROTC
Guest
Having read enough transcripts with some pretty outrageous quotes, I discount everything she says. She has suffered a serious loss, but her solution to the problem is not right.
M
MikeWM
Guest
Ani Ibi:
Either way, I wouldnât recommend those old threads. There were a lot of unpleasant and uncharitable things said in those threads about Ms Sheehan, I think they are better forgotten.
Mike
I wasnât aware of the guideline that said you had to acquaint youself with previous threads to pass comment on an issue.
Either way, I wouldnât recommend those old threads. There were a lot of unpleasant and uncharitable things said in those threads about Ms Sheehan, I think they are better forgotten.
Mike
N
NWUArmyROTC
Guest
You are not in reality if you do not believe that she said this war was for oil or for Israel or blood. Hate permeates her speech. Her loss, which was grevious has turned into hate and she speaks it again and again. Witness her allegation that the US Military is occupying the city of New Orleans. She is not mentally stable anymore, her loss has really impacted her.
N
NWUArmyROTC
Guest
The Gospel of Cindy I see. You have really bought everything she has said hook, line and sinker. Just for the record, Caseyâs father and other family members disagree with what Cindy is doing. Funny, no one cares what they have to think. Rather, in your case, Cindyâs word is Gospel. If she says Casey was opposed to Iraq, he was opposed. If Cindy says it was a war for oil, it was a war for oil. If Cindy says we are occupiers in New Orleans, we are occupiers. That is not reality.
N
NWUArmyROTC
Guest
Well this was enough for me. You support terrorism. You support suicide bombers in Iraq. I guess the Iraqi people deserve to die for exercising new freedoms. I guess soldiers should die because they are âevil occupiers.â
âIt is the Soldier, not the Journalist who has guaranteed freedom of the pressâ
âIt is the Soldier not the activist who has ensured Freedom of Speechâ
You would do well to remember that.
A
Ani_Ibi
Guest
Yes. This responds to the question âWhat was born in Ms Sheehan in the face of death?â
We are all going to die. Death is part of life. Of the myriad options available to a soul in responding to death, how rational is hatred? Does it aid the grass to grow and the sun to shine?
D
Debunkerman
Guest
I do not support terrorism.
I do not support suicide bombers.
Our soldiers should not die.
Our soldiers should be home with their wives and sons and daughters fulfilling Godâs plan as fathers.
Perhaps you have been reading too many American newspapers. Free press? Last time I checked we did not have one. Who told you we did, Tom Brokaw?
You would be wiser to place your faith in God alone and not in the press.
- Status