The Catholic Cindy Sheehan

[NWUArmyROTC]

Debunkerman:

I do not support terrorism.
I do not support suicide bombers.
Our soldiers should not die.
Our soldiers should be home with their wives and sons and daughters fulfilling God’s plan as fathers.

Perhaps you have been reading too many American newspapers. Free press? Last time I checked we did not have one. Who told you we did, Tom Brokaw?

You would be wiser to place your faith in God alone and not in the press.

We don’t have a Free Press? Sure, the Press has an agenda, whether it be to the right at Fox News or to the Left with CNN and the NYTs. But it is a Free Press. They can criticize the government, they can praise it, they are free to do as their editorial boards see fit.

You have embraced the radicalism and irrational thought that Cindy has. If you really think we don’t have Freedom of Speech, go to North Korea, go to Iran. You will feel at home in those countries. And yes, you support terrorism. When you call terrorists freedom fighters you become party to their violence. You become a willing accomplice in the murder of innocents. You become one of them.

You Hate America. You hate America because people can disagree with you. That is what makes this nation great, is that we can have a free press that disagrees. That you and I can have quite a disagreement. But the minute you attack that as false, that no such rights exist, you become no better than a Stalin or a Mao.

 

[NWUArmyROTC]

Debunkerman:

I do not support terrorism.
I do not support suicide bombers.
Our soldiers should not die.
Our soldiers should be home with their wives and sons and daughters fulfilling God’s plan as fathers.

Perhaps you have been reading too many American newspapers. Free press? Last time I checked we did not have one. Who told you we did, Tom Brokaw?

You would be wiser to place your faith in God alone and not in the press.

I am also delighted to see that you know my faith. That you know just from a few posts that I trust the Press and not God. You do NOT know me. You do not know yourself. If you bothered to look at what you’ve posted, it is a false god, it is Cindy Sheehan you have placed your trust in. Take a step back. You need to trust Christ and recognize that Cindy is not some prophet.

 

[NWUArmyROTC]

Debunkerman:

I do not support terrorism.
I do not support suicide bombers.
Our soldiers should not die.
Our soldiers should be home with their wives and sons and daughters fulfilling God’s plan as fathers.

Perhaps you have been reading too many American newspapers. Free press? Last time I checked we did not have one. Who told you we did, Tom Brokaw?

You would be wiser to place your faith in God alone and not in the press.

Just a thought. You joined a Catholic forum and your first posts (many posts) concern Cindy Sheehan. What does that say?

 

[Debunkerman]

NWUArmyROTC:

The Gospel of Cindy I see. You have really bought everything she has said hook, line and sinker. Just for the record, Casey’s father and other family members disagree with what Cindy is doing. Funny, no one cares what they have to think. Rather, in your case, Cindy’s word is Gospel. If she says Casey was opposed to Iraq, he was opposed. If Cindy says it was a war for oil, it was a war for oil. If Cindy says we are occupiers in New Orleans, we are occupiers. That is not reality.

Not true.
Cindy’s father was quoted in the article I read in The Valley Catholic Newspaper in California. As far as I have heard and read I have not found an instance where Cindy Sheehan said the war was for oil.

I have not “bought everything she has said…”
I agree with her view that killing people is wrong.

 

[NWUArmyROTC]

Debunkerman:

Not true.
Cindy’s father was quoted in the article I read in The Valley Catholic Newspaper in California. As far as I have heard and read I have not found an instance where Cindy Sheehan said the war was for oil.

I have not “bought everything she has said…”
I agree with her view that killing people is wrong.

Killing people is wrong. St. Augustine would say it is certainly lamentable, but sometimes necessary. You have thus far, been really unable to support your assertions. Not surprising, just saddening.

 

[gilliam]

Debunkerman:

Not true.
. As far as I have heard and read I have not found an instance where Cindy Sheehan said the war was for oil.
.

We all now know the reason that we are in Iraq. George told us so from a break he was taking from Crawford in San Diego on the same day that Katrina was hitting the Gulf States: it is for oil.
What Noble Cause?
By Cindy Sheehan
truthout.org/cindy.shtml

• In Columbia, SC, yesterday, the Southern Leg of the Bus Tour spoke to a few hundred supporters and 2 counter protestors. One of the counter protestors had a sign that said: “Support the Mission.” I invited her to talk to me after the rally to explain to me what this every changing and ephemeral mission is now. She didn’t. We all know on August 29th, George said that “we need to stay in Iraq to keep the oil fields from falling into the hands of terrorists.” Is that the mission? Are we supporting our troops dying and innocent Iraqi people being killed for oil and greed? This doesn’t sound like anything I want to support.*
  Camp Casey to DC
  With a Detour to New Orleans
  By Cindy Sheehan
  truthout.org/cindy.shtml

It Was the Oil, Stupid
By Cindy Sheehan
So it is official, Casey had his blood shed in Iraq for OIL. He died so we could pay over 3.00/gallon for gas. Like I suspected all along, my dear, sweet son: almost 1900 others; and tens of thousands of innocent Iraqis died so the oil fields wouldn’t “fall into the hands of terrorists” and so George and his immoral band of greedy robber barons could become wealthier. Like I have said all along: how can these people sleep at night and how can they choke down their food knowing it is purchased off of the flesh and blood of others? We have found our “Noble Cause.” And it is OIL. This man and his handlers need to be stopped.
truthout.org/cindy.shtml

 

[Ani_Ibi]

Debunkerman:

I do not support terrorism. I do not support suicide bombers. Our soldiers should not die. Our soldiers should be home with their wives and sons and daughters fulfilling God’s plan as fathers.

Well, you see now Debunkerman, you have time to answer questions, after all. It was never a question of time, was it? It is a question of choosing which questions to evade. And the one which has been evaded now more than a few times is “Have you read any of the previous Sheehan threads?”

The puzzlement I have with the strategy of evasion and overlooking the many fine posts of many fine posters is that I do not see how it furthers discussion; which leads me to wonder: is it discussion which you want to further or is this thread for you a vehicle for single-mindedly promoting an agenda?

One of the guidelines we discussed is this one: “Posters are expected to treat each other as equals with equal expectations of each other in terms of research, logic, challenges, and portrayal of Catholic teaching.” Are we equal, Debunkerman?

I feel that you are saying whatever you please, not responding to challenges or questions, and getting a little touchy with us when we express our own points of view. So that to me is a double standard which suggests to me that exchanges with you are somehow, inexplicably not on an equal footing. How did that happen?

Debunkerman:

You would be wiser to place your faith in God alone and not in the press.

Where do you propose Ms Sheehan place her faith? In those organizations who fund her and exploit the media circus around her in order to foment anti-americanism? Or in God? Do you think confession, communion, and spiritual direction would go further than another round of vitriol and false witness? Or do you think that Ms Sheehan’s comportment is just fine exactly the way it is?

 

[shockerfan]

Debunkerman:

Not true.
Cindy’s father was quoted in the article I read in The Valley Catholic Newspaper in California. As far as I have heard and read I have not found an instance where Cindy Sheehan said the war was for oil.

Debunkerman goes up for the shot, and its blocked by Gilliam, who dribbles the length of the court for a slamdunk!!!

Gilliam:

We all now know the reason that we are in Iraq. George told us so from a break he was taking from Crawford in San Diego on the same day that Katrina was hitting the Gulf States: it is for oil.
What Noble Cause?
By Cindy Sheehan
truthout.org/cindy.shtml

In Columbia, SC, yesterday, the Southern Leg of the Bus Tour spoke to a few hundred supporters and 2 counter protestors. One of the counter protestors had a sign that said: “Support the Mission.” I invited her to talk to me after the rally to explain to me what this every changing and ephemeral mission is now. She didn’t. We all know on August 29th, George said that “we need to stay in Iraq to keep the oil fields from falling into the hands of terrorists.” Is that the mission? Are we supporting our troops dying and innocent Iraqi people being killed for oil and greed? This doesn’t sound like anything I want to support.
Camp Casey to DC
With a Detour to New Orleans
By Cindy Sheehan
truthout.org/cindy.shtml

It Was the Oil, Stupid
By Cindy Sheehan
So it is official, Casey had his blood shed in Iraq for OIL. He died so we could pay over 3.00/gallon for gas. Like I suspected all along, my dear, sweet son: almost 1900 others; and tens of thousands of innocent Iraqis died so the oil fields wouldn’t “fall into the hands of terrorists” and so George and his immoral band of greedy robber barons could become wealthier. Like I have said all along: how can these people sleep at night and how can they choke down their food knowing it is purchased off of the flesh and blood of others? We have found our “Noble Cause.” And it is OIL. This man and his handlers need to be stopped.
truthout.org/cindy.shtml

 

[Ani_Ibi]

Debunkerman:

As far as I have heard and read I have not found an instance where Cindy Sheehan said the war was for oil.

gilliam has provided you with evidence that Ms Sheehan has said the war was for oil. So, now you have heard. gilliam is very skilled with the search window, by the way.

Debunkerman:

I have not “bought everything she has said…”

Which statements of hers have you found problematic?

Debunkerman:

I agree with her view that killing people is wrong.

A while back you offered this Thomist axiom: “Seldom assert, never deny, always distinguish.” The Church distinguishes between murder and killing. Do you agree with the Church that one should distinguish between these two acts?

 

[Debunkerman]

Ani Ibi:

Casey, when he re-enlisted, knew which way was up; he knew what was expected of him; he knew he may have to be in harm’s way; he knew he may have to take someone’s life. Yet he signed on the dotted line. That signature is where Casey and his mother begin to differ.

How do you know he KNEW he may have to take someone’s life? Have recruiters ever promised those who enlist and/or re-enlist that they will not have to go to combat?
Ani Ibi:

But Debunkerman, the question “What did they disagree about so much?” has been asked and answered in previous threads about Ms Sheehan. There really are much more interesting replies to your question …"

What did they disagree about so much?

 

[Debunkerman]

abcdefg:

To Debunkerman:
Will you please elaborate. for example which of the following is for Jesus Christ?

a) KIA (killed in action) or executed for fighting NAZIs in WW2
b) executed for religious believes
c) suicide to avoid religious persecution
d) KIA or executed for fighting communists in Vietnam
e) die a natural death
f) KIA for fighting US soldiers
g) KIA or executed for fighting terrorists

of course you can add many options as you like. but this is a question, and I hope you can answer it.

I also hope you cna find an answer to your question.
Good luck.

 

[Marie]

dc dave:

I believe that Cindy Sheehan’s position on America’s invasion of Iraq is pretty much the same as that of Pope John Paul II and Pope Benedict XVI. That carries a good deal of weight with me, but apparently not with a lot of my fellow American Catholics.

UM! Most Catholic’s are not impressed with foul language and bad behavior. Ms. Sheehan’s view and word’s do not match JPII’s or any Catholic’s for that matter.

Many of uis have lost loved one’s in war. I have, and, no way does grief give me license to mouth off in the vulgar ways Ms Sheehan does. Nor would JP II approve.

 

[Debunkerman]

Ani Ibi:

Well, you know what they say about time: a stitch in time saves nine! Or what is that the boy scouts say? Be prepared? By the way, have you read any thread at this site regarding Cindy Sheehan? You might want to, really. Many very interesting views have been posted by all sorts of interesting people.

I used the search engine with the terms “Cindy Sheehan.” There are many threads with hundreds of messages like,

*"No one is forcing you into thinking or saying anything. You’re just trying to justify failed/false logic by utilizing numerous fallcious tactics.

Answer this question, please. Do you want our troops to succeed in their mission in Iraq? Yes or no. *

I am sorry I do not have time to go back and read every posted message about Cindy Sheehan. Many of the messages are responses to other posts and make no sense out of context. Maybe when I retire I will go back and read all of these threads and get back to you.

 

[Ani_Ibi]

1. Have you read any of the previous Sheehan threads? Have you taken the trouble and offered people the courtesy of checking what research, discussion, trust, good faith has gone before your thread which you started with 5 posts to your account?

Debunkerman:

How do you know he KNEW he may have to take someone’s life?

From goarmy.com:

If you decide to join [the army], you’ll have nine weeks of Basic Combat Training (BCT) where you begin the transformation into a Soldier.

Debunkerman:

Have recruiters ever promised those who enlist and/or re-enlist that they will not have to go to combat?

The norm is that Basic Training provides instruction in many skill-building, character-strengthening, and team areas. This includes combat training. Since this is the norm, it is contingent on someone (you, in this case) to demonstrate that an exception was made for Casey Sheehan.

Debunkerman:

What did they disagree about so much?

It is unlikely that we will know the personal aspects of what their disagreement was about. However, some things are self-evident on the face of Casey Sheehan’s recruitment.

While both may have not wanted to die and while both may have not wanted to take the life of another human being, only one understood the moral good pursued not only in putting oneself in harm’s way and but also in being prepared to eradicate a clear and present danger to life, limb, and freedom by taking the life of a human being who was the source of that danger.

By the way, would you be so kind as to refrain from answering a question with a question. If you don’t know the answer, say so.

That goarmy.com site is really interesting. Ever thought of joining up?

 

[Ani_Ibi]

Debunkerman:

I also hope you cna find an answer to your question. Good luck.

So are evading questions then and not interested in furthering discussion?

 

[Ani_Ibi]

Marie:

Many of uis have lost loved one’s in war. I have, and, no way does grief give me license to mouth off in the vulgar ways Ms Sheehan does. Nor would JP II approve.

Quite true, for the tree is known by its fruit. :yup:

 

[shockerfan]

Ani Ibi:

So are evading questions then and not interested in furthering discussion?

Read his post #84, then Gilliam’s reply in #86.

I’m not sure he has time to answer your question, since he is so in need of doing a little basic research

 

[Ani_Ibi]

Debunkerman:

I used the search engine with the terms “Cindy Sheehan.” There are many threads with hundreds of messages like,

"No one is forcing you into thinking or saying anything. You’re just trying to justify failed/false logic by utilizing numerous fallcious tactics.

Answer this question, please. Do you want our troops to succeed in their mission in Iraq? Yes or no.

Very good.

Debunkerman:

I am sorry I do not have time to go back and read every posted message about Cindy Sheehan.

1. Do you expect others to read your posts then? Ooooo… What was that I had been saying about double standards?
2. Have you heard of skim reading? It’s a great time saver.

Debunkerman:

Many of the messages are responses to other posts and make no sense out of context.

Such is the nature of research. No one said it would be easy.

Debunkerman:

Maybe when I retire I will go back and read all of these threads and get back to you.

Debunkerman! Is that sarcasm? I am astonished at such exaggeration. That’s like saying we’ll do lunch, babe, and then never calling. How charitable is that? When are you retiring by the way? :bounce:

 

[Ani_Ibi]

shockerfan:

Read his post #84, then Gilliam’s reply in #86.

I’m not sure he has time to answer your question, since he is so in need of doing a little basic research

Student life can be hard. Harder for those who prefer to spend their time in activities other than studying. But, shockerfan, I do think I catch your drift. A little basketball can be very therapeutic when pursued in moderation. Though I much prefer hockey.

 

[shockerfan]

Ani Ibi:

Student life can be hard. Harder for those who prefer to spend their time in activities other than studying. But, shockerfan, I do think I catch your drift. A little basketball can be very therapeutic when pursued in moderation. Though I much prefer hockey.

OK. My next sarcastic reply to someone will include a hockey analogy.

I don’t want to discriminate against my cold weathered friends!