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ethelzguy
Guest
Another beaten-to-death topic…the homily of the day is supposed to reflect on the readings of the day.
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Nickkname
Guest
Judging not only by your post but also by your signature and your username, you’re a pretty closed-minded individual. Stop thinking about yourself. And why are you writing a letter to your pastor about liturgical abuse? If he is part of the problem, than you should be writing to the Bishop, with evidence of liturgical abuse.
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ethelzguy
Guest
Lots of things work lotsa ways when you exchange someone else’s words and replace them with your own.
What’s your point?
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awfulthings9
Guest
Nice judgement. Tell me how my username reflects close-mindedness, then I’ll explain where it really came from.
And I’m not thinking about myself - I’m thinking about Christ.
Man, you really got me figured out, don’t you? How about instead of name calling, you actually discuss the points?
Also, you are suggesting we go over the individual’s head? Doesn’t that violate both a sense of integrity and the instructions in Matthew 18?
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awfulthings9
Guest
But the interpretation of the readings is not normative. The Church has not infallibly defined how we interpret all of the readings.
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MrS
Guest
That works for the celebrant too. Either he is there to celibrate the Mass without abuse or innovation, or he is wrong. Even the “smallest” abuse should be considered an offense against the Lord.
As a principal of a school, I think you would agree that the students and their parents have no responsibility to run the school. If they feel you are introducing abuses as the principal, they must come to you with their concerns. Unanswered or ignored concerns then find their way to the PTO or the school board.
I think those parents and students would certainly feel insulted if you told them to either be part of the school without complaint or be labeled a Pharisee who complained about things they thought you were doing wrong.
Best thing that could happen is that both parties meet and discuss with relevant support documentation.
By the way, who is the “small community”, and how are the complaints presented?
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ethelzguy
Guest
Talk about manipulation to suit one’s cause
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awfulthings9
Guest
So, you are saying the interpretations are normative and the church *has *infallibly defined all Scripture? If not, please explain your response.Talk about manipulation to suit one’s cause
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proud2bcatholic
Guest
Nice to see that you can judge the heart and intentions of an anonymous person. Can I hire you as a consultant for my business dealings so that I can know who to trust?
Anyways, according to Redemptionis Sacramentum, awfulthings is doing the correct thing. According to awfulthings post, there were abuses, abuses which the Vatican has stated that it is our right and duty as laity to try and remedy. The protocol is if it is possible to go to the offender first, if nothing changes, then go to the local Ordinary, then still if nothing happens they have recourse to the Vatican.
It is a shame that priests and deacons often times fail in their roles as Fathers by being obedient to their superiors and protecting their flock from errors. It is their role to stick to the rubrics so that the people can enter into the mystery more fully.
Awfulthings, I think your letter is excellent, you share the truth with charity, good job faithful servant.
I would also like to leave with a quote from St. Teresa of Avila:
“Know this: it is by very little breaches of regularity that the devil succeeds in introducing the greatest abuses. May you never end up saying: ‘This is nothing, this is an exaggeration.’” (Saint Teresa of Avila, Foundations, Chapter Twenty-nine)
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awfulthings9
Guest
At least a couple face-to-face meetings with the pastor. A couple of letters. I met with the pastor, myself because I desire to go straight to the person. The small community was just a lump term I used to describe a number of formally unconnected individuals (not an actual “group”, per se) that took offense to some particular, but very bold abuses at the Holy Thursday liturgy.
Keep in mind, though, that my letter isn’t addressing any abuses in particular, but the deacon’s suggestion that we should not do so. I may be wrong in my interpretation of his homily (despite being called close-minded by another on here), which is why I asked for clarification. If I’m wrong, I’ll offer an apology. The Deacon and I are actually on very good terms. He even winked at me before Mass.
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PrayforMallory
Guest
Once we have access to TLM’s in every diocese folks can go there, and not worry anymore about abuses.
If you’re the type of person who is apt to worry about abuses, seek the TLM, and go to it exclusively if you can. You won’t worry about abuses anymore.
If you’re the type of person who is apt to worry about abuses, seek the TLM, and go to it exclusively if you can. You won’t worry about abuses anymore.
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proud2bcatholic
Guest
Yep, that’s one of the reasons why I started going to the TLM.
However, I keep going to the TLM because it is the most beautiful thing this side of heaven, and there was no reason to change it.
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ethelzguy
Guest
What I am saying is that it is standard Church practice, to preach a homily based on the day’s readings.
So, one could presumably attend Mass at any Catholic church today, and expect a homily on the fact that we are asked for love, not holocaust.
Wordsmith all you like. The homily that was purported to be directed at a parishoner was most likely simply in accordance with standard Church procedure.
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rwoehmke
Guest
Jesus’ problem with the Pharisees was not the fact of their interpretation of the law, but with the fact that they laid these burdens on the people without being able to keep the law themselves. He told people to obey the law as interpreted by the Pharisee. Thus the epithet “Pharisee” may not be at all cogent in this instance. Sounds like the priest and deacon may be a little unfamiliar with their scripture.
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awfulthings9
Guest
Even if such were the case, I never suggested that the homily was directed at a parishioner. My problem was that the content of the homly presented an either-or case. Either you worry about the rules or you participate in Mass. Please read my original post and the letter I included. You will see that message is consistent. Yes, there have been instances where some correspondence was directed at certain individuals, such as the letter a friend received from the pastor, but I never made the claim about the homily. You are making it seem as though I did because it makes it easier for you to insert your smileys.The homily that was purported to be directed at a parishoner was most likely simply in accordance with standard Church procedure.
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awfulthings9
Guest
Yes, and Post number 4, by Joan M was answering Post number 2 by *you: “*Maybe it ISN’T “all about you” after all?”
And this was referring to Post number 1 by me, where I originally posted about my concerns with the homily, not the Mass. As I said, trace the antecedent to its source.
Please stop putting words in other’s mouths.
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awfulthings9
Guest
That’s a whole different story. It has been allowed to be offered in one place - in a far-lying rural diocese, once a month.
I know it doesn’t have to be “allowed” to be offered with the new language from the Vatican, but I think others will probably chime in and say that the local bishops still have more say in this matter than the Pope intended. I will leave the name of the bishop and diocese out of the post out of respect for the fact that I may be wrong in the causation, here, though I only go off what some clergy have explained to me.
Several have left my home parish because of the abuses. But, to the credit of my pastor and others, most of those abuses have stopped, which is part of why I remain. If we can work together to provide a reverent liturgy, I would rather have that than jump ship.
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ethelzguy
Guest
Read your OP again…it is very clearly insinuated that you found today’s homily directed at you. And, I still see no problem with the homily itself, as it sounds quite similar to the one we heard today.
ARE YOU there to participate in the Mass?, or ARE YOU there scrutinizing the rules so you can yell “abuse, abuse”? It seems quite cut and dried.
On the other hand, for the sake of your latest argument, let’s say that I am totally off-base in my previous assertions. So, what this all boils down to, is your writing a 2-page letter to your deacon, complaining about the content of his sermon, because it doesn’t fit YOUR opinion?
This…really…cracks…me…up…not only do we have the liturgical police at Sunday Mass, now we also have laity self-appointing themselves as the theology police.
yah-hoo
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ethelzguy
Guest
So, if the deacon and pastor have a disagreement with “a small community”, why would you stick your nose into it, unless you are one of the “small community”?
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Brendan
Guest
Because the Church tells us to. It is about being obedient to the Church.
You don’t get to pick and choose when to file complaints against failure to follow the liturgical directives. The Church doesn’t allow that.
We have to do every thing in our power, and it is clear that it is within the power of the OP to object. Therefore it must be objected to.
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