The Charismatic Movement and Glossolalia

[Omyo12]

This is called being drunk in the spirit just like the apostles were at 9 in the morning
on Pentecost. People thought they were drunk. This gift of laughter is quite valid. St Philip Neri had it.

The red type on purple background is a sure sign of lack of scholarship. That’s what’s
manipulative. I don’t need to be told what to think about it. Just simply present it.
Anyway, I’ve been in these meetings. God is touching His people. It’s the
new wine. Nothing compares with being a fool for Christ.

So the Holy Spirit encourages the Pentecostal tradition?

 

[sauce]

And yet another conspiracy theory. Way too leftist for my taste.
I have no doubt that some are quite sincere in their objections; yet, the Church
does not condemn charismatic experience.

What do you think “rivers of living water” are? In fact, what does any of the bible
actually “look” like?

No one said that “holy laughter” was a “fruit” of the Spirit. IT ISN’T. It is a manifestation of
the Spirit. It is a sign of the new wine. And it has happened all over the place.

The Holy Spirit is unpredictable. And wise above all others.

The only appropriate prayer here is “Come Holy Spirit and renew the face of the
earth.”

Gee, I wonder what that “looks” like.

 

[sauce]

So Pentecostals receive the Holy Spirit??

If a child asks his father for a loaf of bread, would He give him a scorpion?

 

[SonofMonica]

Julia, no one here hates people or has bile for them. But we don’t have to justify our dislike for the extreme behaviors that have shown themselves to be the hallmarks of Pentecostals/Charismatics. There’s undisputed documentation of the 2000 years of the Catholic Church not doing it. The onus is on you to justify doing it. Do not confuse defense of the liturgy and the majesty and integrity of the Church for a lack of charity. Please do not think you are the first lay movement to encounter resistance.

 

[sauce]

I’ve never seen so much misundertanding,bile, anger ,hatred aimed at at a Catholic group.You see the extreme and think it the common.You see no intellect. you only see emotion. The Problem is that at average prayer meeting we pray praise,sing meditate.Charismatic Mass are not a common occurence.People who are involved in the movement are also involved in so called traditional devotions, are enamored of the Eucharist, go to reconciliation,honor the sacraments listen to the the bishop, pope- are more obedient then ultra- traditionalist no matter how super Catholic they believe they are.
The lack of charity is palpable here and the ire that is so obvious here is very unChristlike.
Since the movement is accepted by the church and the popes why others disdain and despise the movement(which surprise is comprised of actually people) who you also show disdain for- where is the ire for the schismatics for those who deny the pope is the pope. who despise everything that they personally don’t understand and doesn’t adhere to there concept of"church’.
We are not uneducated
we are not stupid
we read the catechism
we know our traditions
we love our church
our sacraments
our hierarchy
we respect our priests
we honor we venerate Mary
and the saints
We trust completely in the Trinity
we don’t deny the power of the sacraments and the grace therein
as some suggest.
We are not in league with Satan no matter what others infer-who see Satan everywhere except in themselves.
I end this missive and will no longer post here because of the unbridled ugliness that is mirrored within.
The lack of respect toward your brothers and sisters in Christ is just plain wrong-no matter how you justify your dislike of the renewal.
The peace and Love of Jesus be with all of you.!

Julia,

Get your good self back here! You’re needed. Some people really want to know
what’s what.

regards,

sauce

 

[Omyo12]

And yet another conspiracy theory. Way too leftist for my taste.
I have no doubt that some are quite sincere in their objections; yet, the Church
does not condemn charismatic experience.

What do you think “rivers of living water” are? In fact, what does any of the bible
actually “look” like?

No one said that “holy laughter” was a “fruit” of the Spirit. IT ISN’T. It is a manifestation of
the Spirit. It is a sign of the new wine. And it has happened all over the place.

The Holy Spirit is unpredictable. And wise above all others.

The only appropriate prayer here is “Come Holy Spirit and renew the face of the
earth.”

Gee, I wonder what that “looks” like.

the Church does not condemn the charismatic experience because it’s not heretical in any way. It doesn’t reject or contradict the Church.

Hmm, interesting
where are the “new wine” and “Come Holy Spirit and renew the face of the earth” references from?

 

[SonofMonica]

No one said that “holy laughter” was a “fruit” of the Spirit. IT ISN’T. It is a manifestation of
the Spirit. It is a sign of the new wine. And it has happened all over the place.

Says you. Sorry, I don’t believe you. I don’t need your private revelation. The fact that it happens is not evidence that it is the Holy Spirit. There’s a nice thread on Discernment and Deception started by a fellow named Socrates4Jesus. I would encourage you to check it out.

The Holy Spirit is unpredictable. And wise above all others.

That’s right. The Holy Spirit moves where HE wants to, and is not at the whim of your “movement.” I come from Protestantism, and I know all about the pressure tactics of Pentecostal/Charismatic worship. It’s hardly spontaneous.

The only appropriate prayer here is “Come Holy Spirit and renew the face of the
earth.”

Gee, I wonder what that “looks” like.

I know what it looks like. That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow and every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord. I do that every Sunday, and it’s hardly a laughing matter.

 

[Omyo12]

If a child asks his father for a loaf of bread, would He give him a scorpion?

If a person prays (Catholic, Pentecostal, Baptist, Jehovah’s Witness, Muslim, Atheist), I have no doubt their prayer might, just might, be answered in their moment of need.

If a child asks his father for a loaf of bread, the child is in need.

But wouldn’t receiving the Holy Spirit to a Pentecostal be a sign to him/her that the Pentecostal Church is the true faith?

Wouldn’t then this lead them further astray from the Catholic faith?

 

[sauce]

If a person prays (Catholic, Pentecostal, Baptist, Jehovah’s Witness, Muslim, Atheist), I have no doubt their prayer might, just might, be answered in their moment of need.

If a child asks his father for a loaf of bread, the child is in need.

But wouldn’t receiving the Holy Spirit to a Pentecostal be a sign to him/her that the Pentecostal Church is the true faith?

Wouldn’t then this lead them further astray from the Catholic faith?

God is no respecter of persons. Anyway, I think that they are more interested in
keeping their eyes fixed on Jesus. They won’t come to the Catholic Church unless
they are drawn by the truth of the Eucharist. Which I wish they would.
It is so very hard for them it seems. Maybe they don’t see Jesus inside us.

 

[sauce]

Says you. Sorry, I don’t believe you. I don’t need your private revelation

I know what it looks like. That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow and every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord. I do that every Sunday, and it’s hardly a laughing matter.

It’s not a private revelation.
That’s way too elaborate.

And who knows what one does every Sunday? No one contests that Jesus is Lord.
He is also Potter, Shepherd, Rabbi, Master, Friend, Crucified, Risen, Glorified. And so on.

And it’s His Holy Spirit. By the way, people leak. That’s why we need the Eucharist
for a continuous infilling. Joy on you.

 

[Omyo12]

God is no respecter of persons. Anyway, I think that they are more interested in
keeping their eyes fixed on Jesus. They won’t come to the Catholic Church unless
they are drawn by the truth of the Eucharist. Which I wish they would.
It is so very hard for them it seems. Maybe they don’t see Jesus inside us.

No He’s not, that’s why I believe He’d answer the prayers of those who come to Him (regardless of class or religion)

But what’s that have to do with receiving the Holy Spirit during mass? Are you saying that all practices are an equal path to God or able to receive the same gifts? That goes against Church doctrine.

The Church teaches that anyone outside the Catholic Church who sincerely sought out God in life but was ignorant of Christ still has a chance be saved.

However, this does not mean that God goes around encouraging all faiths…

Pentecostals are not in communion with Christ’s church.

 

[sauce]

Are you saying that all practices are an equal path to God or able to receive the same gifts?

No. Remember the Blood of the Lamb. Nothing equals that.
Don’t care about other religions.

I also don’t pretend to know why God allows people to stumble around without
any knowledge of Jesus Christ.

 

[Omyo12]

No. Remember the Blood of the Lamb. Nothing equals that.
Don’t care about other religions.

I also don’t pretend to know why God allows people to stumble around without
any knowledge of Jesus Christ.

Ok, so back to my question (a little more elaborated), does the Pentecostal practice of speaking in tongues mean they receive the Holy Spirit in a way greater than most Catholics?

 

[sauce]

Ok, so back to my question (a little more elaborated), does the Pentecostal practice of speaking in tongues mean they receive the Holy Spirit in a way greater than most Catholics?

Your question sounds like bait.

You know the answer. You don’t need anyone to answer that for you.

Hidden agendas are for the politically minded.

 

[Omyo12]

Your question sounds like bait.

You know the answer. You don’t need anyone to answer that for you.

Hidden agendas are for the politically minded.

I’m asking because of what you said sir,

This is called being drunk in the spirit just like the apostles were at 9 in the morning
on Pentecost. People thought they were drunk. This gift of laughter is quite valid. St Philip Neri had it.

SonofMonica posted a link to a PENTECOSTAL mass

SonofMonica:

And acting a fool is what these people are doing: youtube.com/watch?v=1SgByE0pX1M

you replied saying they were “drunk with the Spirit”

meaning they receive the Spirit in the Biblical way; differently than most Catholics do

I mean, am I misquoting you?? Where’s this “hidden” agenda??

Maybe you misspoke… maybe you didn’t even watch the video…

Its always easy to call foul in an argument…

 

[sauce]

I’m asking because of what you said sir,

SonofMonica posted a link to a PENTECOSTAL mass

you replied saying they were “drunk with the Spirit”

meaning they receive the Spirit in the Biblical way; differently than most Catholics do

I mean, am I misquoting you?? Where’s this “hidden” agenda??

Maybe you misspoke… maybe you didn’t even watch the video…

Its always easy to call foul in an argument…

Who cried foul? And is this an argument?
I saw the beginning of the video. I saw enough. I don’t need to see 6 or 9 minutes of it. I’ve seen this before. Nothing new to me. I sense from you that you want to ask a question with a hidden agenda to try to make trash out of a person’s answer.

That’s a little too political for me. What I saw was not Mass. It was people sitting in
chairs at a meeting. Hardly Mass. And it was Kenneth Haigan.
God dispenses His Spirit as He wishes. But just think, we get to receive Jesus
in the Eucharist…Body, Soul, and Divinity.

Good night and much Joy to you.

 

[SonofMonica]

Well, I’m certainly not seeing anything that changes my mind. Listening to sauce speak certainly confirms in my mind that these folks are here to turn the Great Sacrifice into a Pentecostal bedlam, not because of any connection to actual Church teaching, but because they think the Holy Spirit speaks to them in a special way that we all haven’t tuned into yet.

Thanks to sauce’s revelation to us all, we now have no need for bishops! Wherever the Holy Spirit makes people laugh uncontrollably, there is the Church. Better get started…

:dancing::crying::extrahappy::whacky: :bigyikes:

 

[Omyo12]

Who cried foul? And is this an argument?
I saw the beginning of the video. I saw enough. I don’t need to see 6 or 9 minutes of it. I’ve seen this before. Nothing new to me. I sense from you that you want to ask a question with a hidden agenda to try to make trash out of a person’s answer.

That’s a little too political for me. What I saw was not Mass. It was people sitting in
chairs at a meeting. Hardly Mass. And it was Kenneth Haigan.
God dispenses His Spirit as He wishes. But just think, we get to receive Jesus
in the Eucharist…Body, Soul, and Divinity.

Good night and much Joy to you.

You’re crying foul. You state your points but its not convincing, so I think of why I’m not convinced and state my own point.

• I’m sure you being a Catholic, believe the Catholic faith is the one true religion
• I’m sure you being a Charismatic Catholic, believe speaking in tongues is the Biblical way of receiving the Holy Spirit
• SonOfMonica linked a video to a Pentecostal worship, you (I take) defended it saying “This gift of laughter is quite valid”
• So I ask, is the “gift” the Pentecostals received in the video more “Biblical”?

In the next series of posts I asked that very question

So the Holy Spirit encourages the Pentecostal tradition?

to which you replied:

If a child asks his father for a loaf of bread, would He give him a scorpion?

So I take you believe they do receive the spirit in a more Biblical way than Catholics…

Show me where my line of reasoning falls short. Is there a fallacy in my argument?

You start accusing me of being “political” just to avoid my point.

You can believe whatever you want, but at least be consistent in what you say.

But whatever, good day

 

[walker_p]

Even the terminology that Charismatics use gives them away: “drunk in the Spirit,” “slain in the Spirit.” What nonsense. What an insult to the Holy Spirit. Being drunk is not a gift of the Spirit. Scripture says being sober minded and practicing self control are gifts of the Spirit. The Holy Spirit brings life, not death. When someone tells me they were “slain in the Spirit,” I tell them plainly they were demon possessed. Holy uncontrollable laughter? More demonic nonsense. Where in the canonical Gospels does it say that Jesus or the Apostles ever fell down and couldn’t get up; or they were staggering around, barely able to stand, as if drunk on alcohol; or their speech was slurred and they couldn’t speak comprehensibly; or they got down on all fours and barked like dogs or oinked like pigs; or they slithered on the ground like serpents; or they couldn’t stop laughing or crying. These are not manifestations of the Holy Spirit. They are manifestations of demonic presence and possession.

 

[IanGE]

I add my Amen to Julia’s letter. Jesus gave us a COMMAND to love (Jn. 13:34), which means that despite all the hatred nakedly displayed around the world (AND in this forum!) Love, per se, CAN exist. I think it was Bishop Tutu (not sure?) who explained that love is a law, much like the law of gravity - anyone who tried to disprove the law of gravity by jumping off a roof is in for trouble! This forum seems to draw a large number of lemmings jumping off cliffs trying to demonstrate that love does not exist!
I urge those of you who blaspheme the Holy Spirit, whether in ignorance or not, to read Jesus’ words according to Mark 3:29. Please!
Also, to those who rattle on about the 7 gifts of the Spirit (please read 1 Cor. 12:4-11 - there are (at least) 9) and the fruits, please read the bit before Fruits of the Spirit, ie Galatians 5:19-21). From which I quote: “The works of the flesh (Paul defines ‘flesh’ in V17) are…enmities, strife, jealousy, angers, rivalries, divisions, sects, envyings…” And if you think Charismatics are a sect, please read Acts 2. That first Pentecost was the START of the church, the schism from charisms crept in sometime around Eusebius, I guess.
Like Julia, I am tempted to walk away from the enmities, strifes, angers etcetera displayed in this and other threads. But maybe I was led here by the Holy Spirit which so many of you seem to despise. Julia, hang in there, guess I will for a bit; meanwhile I shall continue to pray for all of you - IN TONGUES!!!