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Soutane
Guest
If the Jews are God’s Chosen People(a posit I happen to agree with),why have they suffered and been persecuted for millenia?.Especially during the Holocaust?
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If the Jews are God’s Chosen People(a posit I happen to agree with),why have they suffered and been persecuted for millenia?.Especially during the Holocaust?
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North_of_Nod
Guest
It makes sense that since they are God’s chosen people, Satan would go after them with a vengeance. What is precious to God will be despised by the devil. Most of my family is Jewish, and this subject has been brought up many, many times at the dinner table, lol.
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OneTrueCathApos
Guest
The Jews were chosen to present the Messiah to the people. This meant they were led to the Gentiles who are now the chosen people.
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Eleve
Guest
I don’t think that the Gentiles are God’s chosen people now. The Church is Catholic — universal — so its message applies to all peoples, Jew and Gentile alike.
St. Paul on this subject
St. Paul on this subject
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OneTrueCathApos
Guest
The Catholic church is called universal because it is for all people, but all people refuse to belong to it. The Jews are not the chosen ones as they claim they are. Anyone who rejects Christ is not chosen. Christ came to the Jews to lead them to the Gentiles. (Of course many Jews will tell you otherwise).
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Soutane
Guest
Folks the point is NOT whether they are the Chosen People,it is why are they constantly being chastised?
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Eleve
Guest
I’m just saying that Gentile means “not Jewish,” but the Jews are still equally called to God as any Gentile.
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Answersplease
Guest
The qouted post needs some refinement.
The “Chosen People” were chosen to produce the Messiah (Jesus The Christ) and they have done so.
The seed of Abraham was “Chosen” to “bless” all the nations, the Jews who chose to follow Jesus The Christ have fulfilled this prophecy,
the Jews who chose not to follow Jesus The Christ have not fulfilled this prophecy and I don’t think they will ever “bless” all the nations.
Did you not know that the original Chosen Jews are among you as we speak?
Two kinds of Catholics:
1.) Jewish Catholics (native branches that have not been cut away and chose to follow Jesus The Christ).
2.) Gentile Catholics (wild branches that have been grafted into the “True Vine”).
Two kinds of Jewish Catholics:
1.) Decendents of the first followers of Jesus The Christ (native branches that have not been cut away).
2.) Modern day converts (native branches that have been grafted back into the “True Vine”).
The Gentiles are the “Chosen People” in so far that they follow Jesus The Christ and have become “spiritually Jews”.
Both Jewish Catholics and Gentile Catholics are now the “Chosen People”
who are commanded to “bless” all the nations and they are continually fulfilling that prophecy currently
(even though they have been driven out of some nations, but they blessed that nation while they were there).
To the original poster I ask this question, why do you think that the Jews in the Old Testament were severely persecuted?
Was it because this particular group of Jews time and again broke their Covenant with God?
Many of the modern Jews (who choose not to follow Jesus The Christ) are secular,
I think that the majority of them are secular and atheistic, but they still identify themselves culturally and genetically as Jews.
I don’t know why these modern Jews (who choose not to follow Jesus The Christ) are being persecuted but I think I know why they are not blessed by God.
“Look in the mirror, and behold, the work of our Lord’s hand.”
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Eucharisted
Guest
God loves His People. He gives us crosses as a share in His Passion, for His Passion is the sum total of all mankind’s suffering. Crosses make us humble and meek. So the Jews’ suffering is a share in Jesus’ Passion and an instrument of humility.
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trophybearer
Guest
Christ came to bring everyone to him, first Jew, then Gentile. “In Christ there is neither Greek nor Jew…” There is no leading of Jews to Gentiles or any such thing. We are all the same who believe, in Christ Jesus.
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Claire_from_DE
Guest
My feeling is that the Jews were persecuted because they had such a sense of themselves as a people that they didn’t totally assimilate into other societies. As Americans living today we see many different kinds and nationalities of people who are all one nation. But in the past many societies were more homogeneous, sharing a common racial type or religion. So the Jews were identifiable as a somewhat separate group who had customs of their own that were viewed with suspicion. They were also hardworking and often successful in business which evoked envy among some.
IMHO envy coupled with fear of the unknown along with the need of some people to look down on others or blame them for misfortune accounts for the persecution of the Jews. In a ‘Christian nation’ they were labeled ‘Christ killers’ but I think that was a pretext since Christian theology has always taught that Christ died for our sins and that he accepted his death; the Jews were not to blame.
In the Jewish scriptures we see that the prophets viewed the persecutions of the nation of Israel as a chastisement of God for their unfaithfulness to the covenant in order to bring them back to God. I do not see that this is true during the last two thousand years.
IMHO envy coupled with fear of the unknown along with the need of some people to look down on others or blame them for misfortune accounts for the persecution of the Jews. In a ‘Christian nation’ they were labeled ‘Christ killers’ but I think that was a pretext since Christian theology has always taught that Christ died for our sins and that he accepted his death; the Jews were not to blame.
In the Jewish scriptures we see that the prophets viewed the persecutions of the nation of Israel as a chastisement of God for their unfaithfulness to the covenant in order to bring them back to God. I do not see that this is true during the last two thousand years.
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OneTrueCathApos
Guest
No, we are not the same because many do not believe in Christ. Jesus came to the Jews to lead them to us. If you read the bible, and have common sense, you’ll see this.
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Bob_Crowley
Guest
My old pastor put it this way. Suppose I chose you to go down to the letter box and post a letter. But on the way you got sidetracked, and started thinking to yourself, “How about that? I’m the chosen one! Of all the people Bob could have chosen, he chose me to post the letter!” And instead of posting the letter and doing what you were told to do, you decided to centralise your thoughts on being the “Chosen One”. And so you sat down in the gutter and stayed there.
Meanwhile Bob’s wondering when the hell his letter is going to arrive, so he sends someone else to do the job.
But the “Chosen One” continues to sit there reflecting on his “Chosenness” and resenting the fact the job’s been taken over by somebody else.
The Jews weren’t chosen because they were special. They were chosen because they were human and one of our number. Mind you they have received colossal blessings and curses because of it, but it’s also about time they started getting over their “chosenness”.
Meanwhile Bob’s wondering when the hell his letter is going to arrive, so he sends someone else to do the job.
But the “Chosen One” continues to sit there reflecting on his “Chosenness” and resenting the fact the job’s been taken over by somebody else.
The Jews weren’t chosen because they were special. They were chosen because they were human and one of our number. Mind you they have received colossal blessings and curses because of it, but it’s also about time they started getting over their “chosenness”.
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Sam_777
Guest
From my understanding that the Jews where the chosen people till Jesus crucifixion, after that anyone who believes in God/God’s Word/God’s Spirit is considered to be a child of God which is an upgrade to the chosen one.
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Selene
Guest
They were chosen because they were slaves. God always chooses the weakest, the poorest, and the lowly so the world would know that He is the one true God. He doesn’t choose the strongest, the free, and the wealthest. Abraham was chosen because he was elderly and had a barren wife. From him, God showed His power by bringing life to Sarah’s barren womb and making Abraham the 'Father of many nations." David, the shepherd boy who has no military skills was chosen to defeat Goliath because only God has the power to make a mere shepherd boy with no military skills defeat a giant soldier. God later turned this shepherd boy into a king. And the list goes on.
The Jews are still the chosen people of God because they have been called by God to be His people. God made them His chosen people and God does not go back on His promises. God never breaks His promise nor does He abandon those whom He chose to call his people. Despite how many times the Israelites turned away from God, God still called them His people. According to the Catechism of the Catholic Church 839 -840
839 …To the Jews “belong the sonship, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the worship, and the promises; to them belong the patriarchs, and of their race, according to the flesh, is the Christ” (Romans 9:4-5) “for the gifts and the call of God are irrevocable.” (Romans 11:29).
840 And when one considers the future, God’s People of the Old Covenant and the new People of God tends towards similar goals: expectation of the coming (or the return) of the Messiah. But one awaits the return of the Messiah who died and rose from the dead and is recognized as Lord and Son of God; the other awaits the coming of a Messiah, whose features remain hidden till the end of time; and the latter waiting is accompanied by the drama of not knowing or of misunderstanding Christ Jesus.
The Jews are still the People of God of the Old Covenant. We are the new People of God of the New Covenant. According to the Jerusalem Bible (which is a Catholic Bible):
Romans 11:16 A whole batch of bread is made holy if the first handful of dough is made holy; all the branches are holy if the root is holy.
The footnotes in my Jerusalem Bible states: “Even the unbelieving Israelites still belong to the Chosen People and to some degree share its sacred character, just as the first handful of dough (lit. ‘the dough offered as first-fruits’) make the whole offering sacred (Numbers 15:19-21).”
The Jewish people were not the only ones who were murdered and persecuted by the Nazis. The handicap, mentally ill, teachers, political enemies, and even Catholic priests were killed by the Nazis
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Eleve
Guest
We’re talking about Jews who believe and Gentiles who believe. Obviously non-believing Jews (or non-believing Gentiles) are not part of the New Covenant. It’s inaccurate to say that the Gentiles are God’s chosen people.
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OneTrueCathApos
Guest
Why would it be inaccurate? The Jews WERE the chosen before the New Covenant. If the Gentiles are not the chosen and they are the ones who have sacrificed everything for God (priests, lay people, the Saints…etc…), then I will not be Catholic any longer. I do not believe God will choose the Jews as chosen NOW, seeing they reject everything of Christ and even have blasphemed Him to death. (Seeing that Christ said the one sin which He wouldn’t forgive).
We’re talking about Jews who believe and Gentiles who believe. Obviously non-believing Jews (or non-believing Gentiles) are not part of the New Covenant. It’s inaccurate to say that the Gentiles are God’s chosen people.
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Eleve
Guest
And what about Jewish Christians?
Heck, what about the first Jewish Christian, Jesus?
Heck, what about the first Jewish Christian, Jesus?
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Lev23
Guest
Excellent question!!
Sadly, their suffering and persecution in dispersion has been prophesied throughout the scriptures. And concerning such, the prophecy that amplifies all of the other prophecies is Jesus’.
Luke 21:23-24
How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! There will be great distress in the land and wrath against this people. They will fall by the sword and will be taken as prisoners to all the nations. Jerusalem will be trampled on by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.
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Lev23
Guest
To further refine his quote, he needs to remember St.Pauls warning to the (former)gentiles in the Church of boasting against the broken branches. (Romans 11)
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