The Christian Dogma on Satan

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khuldar said:
What I get from reading your words is that you think Satan / The Devil as we today know him is a combined figment of our collective imaginations.

Would this be a correct interpretation?
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That and maybe a misinterpretation… But i am not ruling this argument out though. I’m still 50/50 on the existence of Satan at the moment.
 
C_Del86 said:
That and maybe a misinterpretation… But i am not ruling this argument out though. I’m still 50/50 on the existence of Satan at the moment.
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So I can better understand your point of view can you please tell me my misinterpretation? As it seems that you are sitting on the fence & not willing to commit to anything but are hedging your bets.
 
khuldar said:
So I can better understand your point of view can you please tell me my misinterpretation? As it seems that you are sitting on the fence & not willing to commit to anything but are hedging your bets.
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Lets see.

first, the logic of Angels falling into evil. If the world became what it was due to sin entering it, then why wasn’t heaven given this same effect since Sin was first introduced into existence there, if Satan was a former angel. If Satan is the tempter of Man into evil, then who is the tempter of Angels into evil? How can evil even come into existence in heaven when heaven is fully blanketed with purity from God. Is it possible to remain dry while standing in the ocean? NO. Can the spirits of the saints such as Mary to Francis, or other famous angels such as Michael, Gabriel, and Raphael fall into sin while in heaven, since an angel that close to god did? If it is possible for high ranked angels such as lucifer to commit sin and heaven, then why should we think that the angels or saints may still be there since they should be as prone to making sin as well.

Second, the historicity of Judaism shows that they NEVER believed in the satan christians do. They don’t believe that Satan was a former angel who fell and became the king evil, however in the NT, the crowd suddenly knew what Jesus was talking about with “i saw satan fall like lightning from heaven”, therefore the context could have been figurative and not a description of a former angel as popularly interpreted.

Third, i think it’s more rational to believe that we are responsible for our own decisions. Philosophically, right and wrong can be very subjective and it’s more of the majority of society of our environment that becomes the judge to what is right or wrong. So if we fall into sin, it’s really out of our own faults or psychological issues not because of some invisible demon king who wants to fight God.

Forth, is he in hell or is he in the earth? He can’t be in both because hell is the eternal damn. How does he get out? If revelations says that he will be released from his prison, then he is not tempting us because he is locked. Hell additionally is Shoel (hebrew) and Hades in greek, in english that just means Death/Grave. Therefore Hell, maybe, is not a place but means that the soul ceases to exist. Cut off. Dead. If Satan is in hell, then that renders satan is in the grave or in death.
 
C_Del86 said:
Lets see.

first, the logic of Angels falling into evil. If the world became what it was due to sin entering it, then why wasn’t heaven given this same effect since Sin was first introduced into existence there, if Satan was a former angel. If Satan is the tempter of Man into evil, then who is the tempter of Angels into evil? How can evil even come into existence in heaven when heaven is fully blanketed with purity from God. Is it possible to remain dry while standing in the ocean? NO. Can the spirits of the saints such as Mary to Francis, or other famous angels such as Michael, Gabriel, and Raphael fall into sin while in heaven, since an angel that close to god did? If it is possible for high ranked angels such as lucifer to commit sin and heaven, then why should we think that the angels or saints may still be there since they should be as prone to making sin as well.

Second, the historicity of Judaism shows that they NEVER believed in the satan christians do. They don’t believe that Satan was a former angel who fell and became the king evil, however in the NT, the crowd suddenly knew what Jesus was talking about with “i saw satan fall like lightning from heaven”, therefore the context could have been figurative and not a description of a former angel as popularly interpreted.

Third, i think it’s more rational to believe that we are responsible for our own decisions. Philosophically, right and wrong can be very subjective and it’s more of the majority of society of our environment that becomes the judge to what is right or wrong. So if we fall into sin, it’s really out of our own faults or psychological issues not because of some invisible demon king who wants to fight God.

Forth, is he in hell or is he in the earth? He can’t be in both because hell is the eternal damn. How does he get out? If revelations says that he will be released from his prison, then he is not tempting us because he is locked. Hell additionally is Shoel (hebrew) and Hades in greek, in english that just means Death/Grave. Therefore Hell, maybe, is not a place but means that the soul ceases to exist. Cut off. Dead. If Satan is in hell, then that renders satan is in the grave or in death.
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I think you pose an intelligent question. First, I would suggest you read what the Church officially teaches about the fall of Satan and the fall of man here:
vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p1s2c1p7.htm

and I would suggest you read what the Church teaches about hell here:
vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/__P2O.HTM

Second, I would recommend you read what I found on EWTN’s website about the subject of the fall of Satan here:ewtn.com/vexperts/showresult.asp?RecNum=322496&Forums=0&Experts=0&Days=2002&Author=&Keyword=Satan+rebel&pgnu=1&groupnum=0&record_bookmark=1&ORDER_BY_TXT=ORDER+BY+ReplyDate+DESC&start_at=

I am not qualified to speak about what has been believed about the devil through history, or of what substance he is. But I can tell you as someone who has actually met him that he is very real, and Sts. Peter and John are very accurate in their descriptions of him.

With that said, right and wrong are not subjective. This is the reason God gave us his Commandments, so we would know that there is an objective moral law. Several times in the Bible, we read about the Law of God being written on the hearts of men. (Psalm 40:9, for instance.) When Satan told Eve in the garden of Eden that in eating the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, she and Adam would have their eyes opened and be as gods, part of what he was telling her was that she and Adam would get to decide what was right and wrong for themselves. But the truth is that God has already decided what is right and what is wrong, and that fact is demonstrated by God telling Adam and Eve not to eat of the fruit of that tree.

Right and wrong are not dictated by society, or the majority, or anything other than God. Just because society says something is okay does not mean that the Almighty approves. Abortion is a case in point. God clearly does not approve, yet society has fallen into the sin of murdering children.

While we do fall into plenty of sins through our own fault, there are also times when the temptation is actually demonic. When it happens, it’s like drowning and having to swim to the surface.

And having said that, it must also be said that to be Christian, one must believe in the devil and his demons. Why? Because we believe in Jesus Christ, who tells us that they are real, and was tempted by Satan himself in the desert. Jesus’ apostles tell us they are real, and the authors of the Bible, which we hold to be infallible Scripture, tell us they are real. Not believing in the devil or demons, or angels for that matter, is to not believe Jesus. It’s as simple as that.

†God Bless!
 
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