The Church doesn't oppose racism much.

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ringil said:
We have Saints of every ethnic group and have had for centuries. Perhaps St. Augustine was what may be called “Black”- hard to say. . .

The Church is universal.
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Exactly. 👍
In fact, there are Asian saints for one. 🙂
 
LaramieHirsch said:
Yes, but is that it? That’s all the Church has to say?
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That’s all that needs to be said. By saying that all races, genders, etc. deserve the same human dignity can thereby be extended to any facet involving racial, gender, or other natural equality.

If you say murder is wrong, then all areas of murder are covered. So it wouldn’t matter if you murdered someone with a wrench or gun, or whether you murdered someone who was Asian or Mexican, whether you murdered someone who was young or old, all are bases are covered. The same idea goes to the statement in the catechism about human dignity. By that one statement, all bases are covered.

This concept of dignity can be seen all the way back in the Bible with telling the Apostles to make disciples of all nations (again, one statement covering all bases), with Jesus telling the parable about the good Samaritan, with Jesus’ actions towards women, Jews, Gentiles, those who were sick, those who were rick, or poor. All are treated with human dignity and respect. It even shows that slaves (which were often not like what we think of as slaves) were to be given human dignity and have rights.
 
I think the Church despises racism as much as any other evil. But here is something interesting. I remember after Obamacare was going to either pass or fail, there were large Prayer-Type gatherings around the Nation, at City Halls and Governement Bulidings, the channel EWTN was HUGE on using their air time to ensure that as many folks went to these as possible. I noticed one thing about the footage and photos I saw of the gatherings, nation wide. In all states, the audiences and protesters that showed up look mostly white to me. Any thoughts on this?
 
LaramieHirsch said:
Yes, that’s right. You heard me.

The Catholic Church of Jesus Christ does not oppose racism…much.

But it does…some.

The problem is, I don’t know where.

I’m looking for official infallible pronouncements on the subject of racism, and race-mixing in particular.

Catechism, Bible–you name it. I’m looking for official opposition to racism and miscegenation laws. I’ve combed the internet a bit in the last few days, and was taken aback that there’s not too many official discussions about it. Sure, there may have been priests here and there who worked to fight racism. But what about official stances of the Church Herself?

I have found that most of the logic on racism has to be deducted with reason after doing a bit of broad reading. There’s not one single commandment or paragraph in the Catechism that speaks out against it. At least, I don’t think there is.

But if there is, where? I’m looking.
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Laramie,

Check this out in addition to what you have so far…

uscatholic.org/church/2008/07/timeline-black-catholic-history

What is the purpose of your question?
 
QNDNNDQDCE said:
Believe it or not, not everyone from Africa is black.
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I know this. That’s why I said he “may” have been what we would call “black”.

Like all continents, Africa is a heterogenous place with many peoples.
 
ringil said:
I know this. That’s why I said he “may” have been what we would call “black”.

Like all continents, Africa is a heterogenous place with many peoples.
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He was from Algeria. Algerians are not black.
 
Alucard1966 said:
I think the Church despises racism as much as any other evil. But here is something interesting. I remember after Obamacare was going to either pass or fail, there were large Prayer-Type gatherings around the Nation, at City Halls and Governement Bulidings, the channel EWTN was HUGE on using their air time to ensure that as many folks went to these as possible. I noticed one thing about the footage and photos I saw of the gatherings, nation wide. In all states, the audiences and protesters that showed up look mostly white to me. Any thoughts on this?
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My thought is that maybe EWTN mostly appeals to caucasians. Don’t know why. But also, my husband is hispanic, and he and his friends have all fallen under Obama’s sway. He’s really impressed by Obama’s inviting hispanics to the White House recently, and by the Dem’s stand on immigration.
And of course, there are far fewer blacks in this country than there should be, due to the abortion genocide that’s being practiced. And many black people like Obama because he’s black.
I think it’s cool that we have a black president, just wish he were one with a moral backbone.
 
CopticChristian said:
What is the purpose of your question?
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Ever since the Trayvon Martin case in February, I’ve become more aware of racial strife in the West, as well as a possible Jewish plot to mix races.

I am not what you would call a “racist.” Though, it is arguable that everyone is racist. The thing of it is–we’re not all racial supremacists.

I’ve spent my time lately arguing against racial supremacy.

I’ve also spent the last month defending the right to choose a mixed-race union.

My racial views are complex, but let’s just say I completely agree with everything the Catholic Church has to say about it. We are Universal. Period. I know this. Not everyone does.

However, I would like more source material. You can’t get any more solid than having original source material from the Catholic Church (when talking with Catholics).
The issue has become sort of a small pet hobby in my spare time. I find that the topic of race has MANY subtopics, and that all of these subtopics are neglected because of knee-jerk reactions.
Anyway, CopticChristian, that’s where I’m coming from.
 
QNDNNDQDCE said:
He was from Algeria. Algerians are not black.
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Actually you’re wrong. There are black Algerians. And I’m not talking about black people from other countries leaving in Algeria but Algerians who are blacks. Some are light, some are dark but they are proper black Algerians. The same for Morocco and Tunisia.

Anyway, I truly believe the Church is opposed to racism even if it’s not written word-by-word. You will always find some “really good” catholics who will be blatantly racist/ prejudice/ ignorant… for some reason.
It’s sad but that’s how people are, no matter their faith or their origin. But I truly know that those people only represent a tiny tiny tiny percentage. If we can’t change their mind we can still pray for them.
And again, yes the Church is completely against racism!

Peace
 
Ever since the Trayvon Martin case in February, I’ve become more aware of racial strife in the West. I never knew it was so bad there but I believe Zimmerman does not represent at all the rest of the “white” community there. Plus the media and facebook played a major role in that case. It came all the way here so it was that bad. Anyway may Trayvon rest in peace

as well as a possible Jewish plot to mix races. I don’t understand. Can you explain please?

I am not what you would call a “racist.” Though, it is arguable that everyone is racist. I don’t agree and I would say some are ignorant some are prejudice and some are just plain racist and some just don’t care about your skin color.

However, I would like more source material. You can’t get any more solid than having original source material from the Catholic Church (when talking with Catholics).

Its’ in French but the Pope said in 2009 during the UN conference held in Geneva against racism :

*« Je forme des voeux sincères pour que les délégations à la Conférence de Genève » contre le racisme, la xénophobie et l’intolérance « oeuvrent dans un esprit de dialogue et de respect mutuel, afin qu’on mette fin à toute forme de racisme ou de discrimination… dans l’affirmation de la valeur universelle qu’est la dignité de l’homme et de ses droits, dans un monde de respect et de justice pour tout peuple et tout individu ». *

He basically said that he wishes that this conference against racism, xenophobia and intolerance would take place with respect and and communication in order to end any form of racism or discrimination with the affirmation of universal values …] for every nation and any individual.

eglise.catholique.fr/actualites-et-evenements/actualites/conference-internationale-de-lonu-contre-le-racisme.html
 
I am intrigued with this idea that we would need to have anything specific stated about not being a racist. So much of what we are about in this Church has to do with preserving life it would never cross my mind that we would need to be reminded that we should not be racist. But, once again I have seen some excellent replies showing where it is clear that racism is not a part of this Church.
 
Thanks for the quote, Elisabethelisa. Thank you all for your source material so far.

Yes, y’all are right. We are not “Bible Lawyers.” We are not Protestants. Catholics are not tied to scripture, but Tradition. We have the Tradition of Christendom. Anti-racism is threaded throughout our faith. I like the cited parts of the Catechism the best in this thread.

Blunt discussions on race are rarely talked about in blunt fashion in the Church. I guess that’s the way it’s gonna be. Catholics make obvious and correct presumptions that a lot of non-believers fail to grasp.

I just wanted as much source material as I could get, because I’m a terrible apologist, truth be told.
Elisabethelisa said:
as well as a possible Jewish plot to mix races. I don’t understand. Can you explain please? …

I am not what you would call a “racist.” Though, it is arguable that everyone is racist. I don’t agree and I would say some are ignorant some are prejudice and some are just plain racist and some just don’t care about your skin color. …
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That’s okay. We don’t have to agree. All I know is that I live in a racially-charged town, and the blacks talk about the whites, the whites about the blacks, the hispanics about both, and both about the hispanics. The different groups talk about the other groups’ eccentricities and characteristics, and frequently this is labelled as racism.

I figure it’s a natural situation for so many ethnicities living together, and I don’t think much of it.

Regarding the possible Jewish plot to mix the races, I would recommend you check out E. Michael Jones’ book The Jewish Revolutionary Spirit, though I don’t think he discusses Jewish race plots. But looking such things up on the internet could turn up what I’m talking about. I do not wish to go into the “Jewish race plot” any further, because I am not sure of the rules with this forum. So I’ll end this tangent with two paragraphs someone tried citing to me elsewhere:

**The religion of Freemasonry is judaism. They said that their god “is dedicated to the unification of all races, religions and credes.”
–The New Age, Sep.1950 (official publication of the Scottish Rite)

On Feb, 13,1883, the Jewish World of London wrote:
“The great ideal of judaism is that Jewish teachings shall be imbued on the whole world. In fact, in a greater brotherghood of nations (UN) all of the separate races, and religions shall disappear.” **

I guess you can private message me if you’re further interested in following that tangent of thought.

Productive thread, though. Thank you all for the material.
 
I believe in the Church’s teaching that every person, regardless of race or ethnic origin, is entitled to dignity and respect. I don’t think the Church needs to go any further than this, and should stay rather neutral on the issue (which become very subjective).
 
The reason why the Catholic Church’s teaching on racism doesn’t seem to go for mush is simply because any discussions on race can go very bad very quickly. Not only that, the Catholic Church always tries to avoid racial politics.
 
I stopped paying attention after “possible Jewish plot to mix the races.” Are you for real?:rolleyes:
 
Jade_Tiger said:
I stopped paying attention after “possible Jewish plot to mix the races.” Are you for real?:rolleyes:
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👍

The key word is “possible.” I’m not starting a thread or tangent about that. There’s a bunch of talk about that sort of thing elsewhere among Catholics on the web.

Look it up if you want to.

I was responding to Elisabethelisa, because she wanted me to explain what I was talking about.

🙂

:egyptian:

:bluelite:
 
lerapt78 said:
I believe in the Church’s teaching that every person, regardless of race or ethnic origin, is entitled to dignity and respect. I don’t think the Church needs to go any further than this, and should stay rather neutral on the issue (which become very subjective).
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Crescentinus said:
The reason why the Catholic Church’s teaching on racism doesn’t seem to go for mush is simply because any discussions on race can go very bad very quickly. Not only that, the Catholic Church always tries to avoid racial politics.
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I disagree.

Everyone keeps saying that there needs to be a dialogue on race. But so far, the only two people I’ve witnessed who can talk about race are Richard Pryor and David Chappelle.

You say the words “race,” “racism,” or “racist,” and everyone’s knee jerks. Plus, there’s a large segment of our society afraid to talk about the matter.

There are many different subtopics within the subject of “race” that could be addressed.

Segregation - Is it acceptable to be enforced by a government? Is it acceptable if people enforce it upon their own ethnic communities?

Racial Purity - In America, during February, through President’s day, we are reminded of the following: 1. Black people exist 2. Black people have the right to exist 3. Black people have the right to exist as black people

so, is it okay to say that
  1. White people exist 2. White people have the right to exist and 3. White people have the right to exist as white people?
Is morality genetic? Do our genes determine morality or our ability to follow the Laws of God? Or is morality beyond that?

If morality or our ability to follow morals is found in our genes, does that mean certain ethnicities are more prone to damnation, and others more prone to paradise?

If morality or our ability to follow morals is found in our genetic code, then is it wrong to intermarry with other ethnicities? For example, do we pollute the genepool of our “home” ethnicity if we bear children with someone from an inferior ethnicity? Conversely, would it be seen as a good thing if we were to bear children with someone from a superior ethnicity?

Of course, the last few questions belong to another subject under the umbrella of the “racial discussion” –Interracial Mixing. But those questions sort of bleed into the previous subject as well.
These are but some of the different things I have difficulty finding the Church discuss. But there’s PLENTY of opinions on the matter.
 
Elisabethelisa said:
Actually you’re wrong. There are black Algerians. And I’m not talking about black people from other countries leaving in Algeria but Algerians who are blacks. Some are light, some are dark but they are proper black Algerians. The same for Morocco and Tunisia.
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The native Algerian population is not now, nor was it at the time of Augustine, what we would call “black,” by which is commonly understood the native peoples of sub-Saharan Africa. That there may happen to be blacks born in Algeria, being numerically insignificant, does not by itself change the general conception of the Algerian people, nor does it give us any more reason to suspect that Augustine was black than the fact that a black person was at any time born in France gives reason to suspect that Charlemagne was black. On the other hand, what we know about Augustine’s family gives us very good reason to suspect that Augustine was not black.
 
If you’re going to go that route, Laramie, you might get some use out of the section of the CCC dealing with “The Covenant with Noah.”
56 After the unity of the human race was shattered by sin God at once sought to save humanity part by part. The covenant with Noah after the flood gives expression to the principle of the divine economy toward the “nations”, in other words, towards men grouped “in their lands, each with [its] own language, by their families, in their nations”.
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57 This state of division into many nations is at once cosmic, social and religious. It is intended to limit the pride of fallen humanity united only in its perverse ambition to forge its own unity as at Babel. But, because of sin, both polytheism and the idolatry of the nation and of its rulers constantly threaten this provisional economy with the perversion of paganism.
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scborromeo.org/ccc/p1s1c2a1.htm
 
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