The church finally says ABC is ok!! What would you all think of that??

[joclucsylv]

Could you post the name and parish of the priest who told you that condoms are okay for a Catholic couple. I would like to speak with him and his bishop. I am sure the Holy Father would love to know his priests are teaching error and placing souls in danger of hellfire.

Do you know that 90 percent of people who suffer from panic attacks and anxiety disorder are Catholic. Geesh…I wonder why?

 

[Debora123]

Believe all you want. The Church has the keys to Heaven, you don’t.

In Purgatory, we will all learn the truth about our errors.

Yep, yes we will. And God will judge us all fairly. :heaven:

 

[Debora123]

Debora…I like you!

I like you too! You’ve been very nice to me.

 

[joclucsylv]

Honestly, in my opinion, I find them selfish, if only because you’ve admitted that you “forced” your husband to get sterilized simply because of what you “want”. I don’t mean for that be attacking, it’s only my opinion and only of your reasons, not of you.

I don’t think you’re thread is absurd, though perhaps a unusual, but any way to get at learning the truth is important, as I’ve said before, it took me nearly 8 years, after conversion and 6 years of marriage before I really began understanding this teaching. And I wouldn’t necessarily call you selfish, I don’t know you, you could be extremely generous and charitable with nearly everything else.

I understand the hesitation behind wanting to actively trying to pursue more children, but to say “never, ever, ever”, when, I’m guessing, you’re probably younger than I am and I know I have many more years of fertility down the road, seems short-sighted. What happens if, 5 years from now, God places a desire in your heart to have another child? It’s not always about what we want, but it should always be about what God wants for us.

I hope that makes sense, and it does not come off being mean.

If it’s about what God wants, why do you NFPers watch your cycle so darn closely to make sure that when you are having sex there is NO egg there. You say it’s open to God. That is such a joke.

 

[joclucsylv]

Yep, yes we will. And God will judge us all fairly. :heaven:

Perhaps we will all see eachother there. NFPers, condom users, vasectomy Catholics and all!!!

 

[Debora123]

Perhaps we will all see eachother there. NFPers, condom users, vasectomy Catholics and all!!!

Breaking the rules will put you in purgatory, but so will being uncharitable, rude, and spiritually proud.

We all have something to offer and we can all learn from each other. And after all, we are all sinners. Only God can judge what is in our hearts.

 

[Debora123]

Could you post the name and parish of the priest who told you that condoms are okay for a Catholic couple. I would like to speak with him and his bishop. I am sure the Holy Father would love to know his priests are teaching error and placing souls in danger of hellfire.

No, I cannot give you that information, I am sorry. But I will tell you that he’s not the only one.

 

[joclucsylv]

Breaking the rules will put you in purgatory, but so will being uncharitable, rude, and spiritually proud.

We all have something to offer and we can all learn from each other. And after all, we are all sinners. Only God can judge what is in our hearts.

You are a smart girl Debora. Common sense kind of girl!!!
Did you notice how they all stopped talking to me once I admitted my husband had a V. Guess I am not in the “IN” club anymore lol!!

No one even sent prayers my way.

Debora, I will keep you in my prayers tonight.

 

[joclucsylv]

No, I cannot give you that information, I am sorry. But I will tell you that he’s not the only one.

No he isn’t. My mom had a tubal after having her last child at 43 following the rythym and had 5 pregnancies. The priest said she had done her duty and that it was ok.

 

[Debora123]

You are a smart girl Debora. Common sense kind of girl!!!
Did you notice how they all stopped talking to me once I admitted my husband had a V. Guess I am not in the “IN” club anymore lol!!

No one even sent prayers my way.

Debora, I will keep you in my prayers tonight.

You should read this if you haven’t done so already:

elizabethfoss.com/reallearning/2011/06/gentleness-in-the-real-world-1.html

You will be in my prayers too, sister!

 

[Debora123]

The Church can’t be in error, you are. Yes, you did break your wedding vows.

I guess my wedding was missing a particular vow when I was telling the priest “I do” to all the vows he was listing.

I certainly haven’t broken any of those!

 

[sw85]

I believe that I am doing nothing wrong.

Can I ask why you believe that is the case?

 

[joclucsylv]

You should read this if you haven’t done so already:

elizabethfoss.com/reallearning/2011/06/gentleness-in-the-real-world-1.html

You will be in my prayers too, sister!

That is beautiful Deborah. Thank you for sharing. I could tell you had a gentle side to you. Being truthful about your story, you were judged and shot down. Yet you responded with (I don’t know how to respond to such hostility) I need to learn from you lol!!

You are the type who will draw people to Christ and his Church!!

Everyone needs to read the this
www.elizabethfoss.com/reallearning

We all have something to learn from one another!!

 

[Debora123]

Can I ask why you believe that is the case?

Honestly, I’m sorry but I’d rather not open that can of worms again. :doh2:

You can read my earlier posts if you’d like - it’ll at least give you somewhat of an idea, if not answer your question.

 

[sw85]

I guess my wedding was missing a particular vow when I was telling the priest “I do” to all the vows he was listing.

I certainly haven’t broken any of those!

I have never attended a Catholic wedding so I admit to being ignorant of the vows exchanged. But a quick googling returned this:

Catholic wedding vows are usually preceded by three questions from the priest:

"(Name) and (name), have you come here freely and without reservation to give yourselves to each other in marriage?"

"Will you honor each other as man and wife for the rest of your lives?"

**"Will you accept children lovingly from God, and bring them up according to the law of Christ and his Church?"**

The bride and groom respond “I will” or “yes” (Rite of Marriage #34).

The Rite of Marriage (#25) offers several options for Catholic wedding vows. The standard version goes like this:

Priest (or deacon): Since it is your intention to enter into marriage, join your right hands, and declare your consent before God and his Church.

Groom: I, (name), take you, (name), to be my wife. I promise to be true to you in good times and in bad, in sickness and in health. I will love you and honor you all the days of my life.

Bride: I, (name), take you, (name), to be my husband. I promise to be true to you in good times and in bad, in sickness and in health. I will love you and honor you all the days of my life.

That would seem to me a pretty clear case that your vows included one of openness to procreation, although again, I have never attended a Catholic wedding so I’m unsure.

 

[Debora123]

I have never attended a Catholic wedding so I admit to being ignorant of the vows exchanged. But a quick googling returned this:

That would seem to me a pretty clear case that your vows included one of openness to procreation, although again, I have never attended a Catholic wedding so I’m unsure.

I fully intend on having children and have thus stated this multiple times in this thread.

I feel being a stay at home mom is my calling in life.

I apologize for the misunderstanding.

 

[sw85]

Honestly, I’m sorry but I’d rather not open that can of worms again. :doh2:

You can read my earlier posts if you’d like - it’ll at least give you somewhat of an idea, if not answer your question.

From what I gather, you were unable to make rational sense of the teaching (because you look at it from a consequentialist standpoint rather than the natural law standpoint the Church has actually adopted) but nevertheless adhered to it until you realized it was an impediment to your marital happiness.

This is grave error. No amount of sororal backpatting or even the endorsement of a priest in open rebellion against the Church’s teachings can change that, nor does denigrating everyone who points this out to you as being judgmental and arrogant, etc. Natural law is very clear on this, as is the Church itself. If you cannot follow the teaching because you comprehend it, then follow it because they are a legitimate authority in your life and you owe them your obedience – even if it requires that you sacrifice your marriage.

I’m aware that sounds harsh. It is. But as I have said before (in another thread, I think, if not this one) the God of the Church is not the God of your marital happiness or material comfort; He is the God of your soul. If your marital happiness should tempt you to sin, it would be better that you sacrifice it. It is precisely this reason that Paul wrote that it would be better to remain a virgin than to marry.

It goes without saying, of course, that God will judge you fairly. No one here is saying otherwise. What is being said is that you ought not to be so flippant about defying a teaching with the full weight of the Church and natural law just because you cannot see the reason in a particular teaching and it happens to make you unhappy. Why risk your soul over something so paltry?

 

[sw85]

I fully intend on having children and have thus stated this multiple times in this thread.

I feel being a stay at home mom is my calling in life.

I apologize for the misunderstanding.

Intent is irrelevant. The evidence right here and now indicates that you are not so open: you are deliberately endeavoring to pervert the procreative end toward which marriage is ordered.

This is bad enough in that it violates both natural law and the teachings of the Church. If you swore an oath that you would be open to life (not open to life when you feel like it, later on), then you compound the sin with perjury.

 

[joclucsylv]

From what I gather, you were unable to make rational sense of the teaching (because you look at it from a consequentialist standpoint rather than the natural law standpoint the Church has actually adopted) but nevertheless adhered to it until you realized it was an impediment to your marital happiness.

This is grave error. No amount of sororal backpatting or even the endorsement of a priest in open rebellion against the Church’s teachings can change that, nor does denigrating everyone who points this out to you as being judgmental and arrogant, etc. Natural law is very clear on this, as is the Church itself. If you cannot follow the teaching because you comprehend it, then follow it because they are a legitimate authority in your life and you owe them your obedience – even if it requires that you sacrifice your marriage.

I’m aware that sounds harsh. It is. But as I have said before (in another thread, I think, if not this one) the God of the Church is not the God of your marital happiness or material comfort; He is the God of your soul. If your marital happiness should tempt you to sin, it would be better that you sacrifice it. It is precisely this reason that Paul wrote that it would be better to remain a virgin than to marry.

It goes without saying, of course, that God will judge you fairly. No one here is saying otherwise. What is being said is that you ought not to be so flippant about defying a teaching with the full weight of the Church and natural law just because you cannot see the reason in a particular teaching and it happens to make you unhappy. Why risk your soul over something so paltry?

It’s her soul, her decision.

Hey, could you explain to me why Pope Benedict stated that it is ok for homosexual prostitutes to use condoms??

 

[Debora123]

From what I gather, you were unable to make rational sense of the teaching (because you look at it from a consequentialist standpoint rather than the natural law standpoint the Church has actually adopted) but nevertheless adhered to it until you realized it was an impediment to your marital happiness.

This is grave error. No amount of sororal backpatting or even the endorsement of a priest in open rebellion against the Church’s teachings can change that, nor does denigrating everyone who points this out to you as being judgmental and arrogant, etc. Natural law is very clear on this, as is the Church itself. If you cannot follow the teaching because you comprehend it, then follow it because they are a legitimate authority in your life and you owe them your obedience – even if it requires that you sacrifice your marriage.

I’m aware that sounds harsh. It is. But as I have said before (in another thread, I think, if not this one) the God of the Church is not the God of your marital happiness or material comfort; He is the God of your soul. If your marital happiness should tempt you to sin, it would be better that you sacrifice it. It is precisely this reason that Paul wrote that it would be better to remain a virgin than to marry.

It goes without saying, of course, that God will judge you fairly. No one here is saying otherwise. What is being said is that you ought not to be so flippant about defying a teaching with the full weight of the Church and natural law just because you cannot see the reason in a particular teaching and it happens to make you unhappy. Why risk your soul over something so paltry?

I never called anyone judgmental or arrogant. Someone else called ME arrogant! LOL! :whacky:

I appreciate your concern for my soul and think you are being genuine.

This is a matter between God, myself, and my husband. And you are right, He will judge me accordingly when the time is right.

I know I have many of you that I can turn to if I feel God is calling me back to NFP.