The church of "just me and my bible"

[BA11]

Recently I have meant 2 different Protestants that don’t go to any church because all they need is the bible and they can interprate it completely on thier own. Is this common?

After talking to both of them on different occasions I found thier theology other than recognizing the trinity didn’t fit anywhere

One went on to say Paul preaches a different salvation than the gospels and there 2 two types of salvation

Is it common among true, knowledgable protestant followers of christ? No, but it is common amongst the “meh” protestants who are either unsaved or have a very immature faith.

And just because we believe in sola scriptura doesnt mean there arent wrong interpretations of the bible. Anyone who says the bible teaches two distinct ways to salvation is wrong, simple as that.

Every christian church on the earth has extra-biblical doctrine or doctrine that is VERY sketchy based on twisting the scripture, whether they want to admit it or not. Protestant churches claim sola scriptura, but the reality is that many take “once saved always saved” as biblical when it is, at best, iffy. Considering the numerous passages that hint at believers walking away, it’s tough to not call them hypocritical for that beief as sola scripturists.

I think at the core of the matter is that many protestants (certainly not all) believe that many beliefs they hold dont effect salvation whereas catholics tend to belive that most dogma DOES effect salvation. I fall into the former category. I also think we’re saved by the blood of christ, regardless of whether or not one believes that’s all there is to it. That’s something a lot of my protestant friends disagree with me on. Interpreting a bible verse differently than me doesnt keep someone out of heaven.

 

[Oldtimer_7]

The Epistles are essentially about living in community with other saints. This is not one saint and Jesus.

Reading the Bible is not the same as experience the working of the Holy Spirit within a community of believers. I compare it to reading the rules of a sport and never attending a game or going out on the field to play.

Saint Paul, in 1 Corinthians, Chapter 13, speaks of knowing (gnosis) versus comprehending (epignosis). This is the position of one who is not in a worshiping community: one may know the Bible, but have no comprehension of how that knowledge plays out with others. Agape is not complete until there is an other to show love selflessly.

I see these persons as being on a stage of the walk of faith. That one of them would express such an idea seems to me to be a cry to be invited in. Then, following Saint Paul’s line of reasoning, they may see clearly rather that in a mirror darkly.

 

[JustaServant]

Is it common among true, knowledgable protestant followers of christ? No, but it is common amongst the “meh” protestants who are either unsaved or have a very immature faith.

How do you determine they are “unsaved”?

 

[mackbrislawn]

The Epistles are essentially about living in community with other saints. This is not one saint and Jesus.

**Reading the Bible is not the same as experience the working of the Holy Spirit within a community of believers. I compare it to reading the rules of a sport and never attending a game or going out on the field to play. **
Saint Paul, in 1 Corinthians, Chapter 13, speaks of knowing (gnosis) versus comprehending (epignosis). This is the position of one who is not in a worshiping community: one may know the Bible, but have no comprehension of how that knowledge plays out with others. Agape is not complete until there is an other to show love selflessly.

I see these persons as being on a stage of the walk of faith. That one of them would express such an idea seems to me to be a cry** to be invited in**. Then, following Saint Paul’s line of reasoning, they may see clearly rather that in a mirror darkly.

I think this is a real good point. After all, the scriptures arose within the pre-existing community of faith, and, inspired by the Holy Spirit, were written by, for, and to the community of faith. In view of this, it would seem the proper place for understanding and appreciating the scriptures would be within that community. Someone not already within the community would not be expected to understand it fully. But only after having been invited in and born again are they in a position to be able to appreciate God’s written word.

In the Old Testament situation, would you expect a gentile to be able to take the Hebrew scriptures and read them and understand them, and then declare himself to be the true God-fearing one and the Israelites false? Probably not.

 

[BA11]

How do you determine they are “unsaved”?

I dont. I can tell you there are many protestants who arent truly saved just based on the reality of church in general, but I dont know who among us is truly saved and who isnt. A true believer can stumble and many of the best church goers are hollow.

 

[Oldtimer_7]

Macbrislawn, the Ethiopian Eunuch was not able to interpret Isaiah, and needed Saint Philip’s guidance. If he really was a eunuch, he could not have worshiped in the Temple, so he may have been a God-fearer, a gentile who admired Judaism. the Greek is unclear on this point.

What amazes me is how many have been kicked in the teeth by churches and still come seeking God. I have met entire congregations that were made up of “rejects.” We may see the fault in the “Christ and me” types, but we have plenty of logs to pull out of our own eyes, too. Humility demands that we acknowledge our failures as individuals and as the Body of Christ. Conscience demands that we rectify them so the loners will have a home to come to.

 

[Adamski]

Macbrislawn, the Ethiopian Eunuch was not able to interpret Isaiah, and needed Saint Philip’s guidance. If he really was a eunuch, he could not have worshiped in the Temple, so he may have been a God-fearer, a gentile who admired Judaism. the Greek is unclear on this point.

What amazes me is how many have been kicked in the teeth by churches and still come seeking God. I have met entire congregations that were made up of “rejects.” We may see the fault in the “Christ and me” types, but we have plenty of logs to pull out of our own eyes, too. Humility demands that we acknowledge our failures as individuals and as the Body of Christ. Conscience demands that we rectify them so the loners will have a home to come to.

When I left me evangelical church to come back to the catholic church after 15 years I was constantly told about “bad priests and bad popes”. My response which I have know idea where I got was “I am willing to follow Jesus and the church he founded despite judas”

 

[Isaiah45_9]

What amazes me is how many have been kicked in the teeth by churches and still come seeking God. I have met entire congregations that were made up of “rejects.” We may see the fault in the “Christ and me” types, but we have plenty of logs to pull out of our own eyes, too. Humility demands that we acknowledge our failures as individuals and as the Body of Christ. Conscience demands that we rectify them so the loners will have a home to come to.

 

[SteveVH]

Every christian church on the earth has extra-biblical doctrine or doctrine that is VERY sketchy based on twisting the scripture, whether they want to admit it or not.

I do not believe this is true concerning the one, holy, catholic and apostolic Church. We have extra-biblical doctrine because we have the gift of Sacred Tradition, but we have certainly not “twisted the scriptures”. Our doctrines were in place prior to the Scriptures even being written and certainly before they were canonized. So we do not depend upon the Bible for our doctrines even though the Bible supports those doctrines. I can say this because Christ promised to lead the Church into all truth through the Holy Spirit and I believe that God always keeps his promises.

Interpreting a bible verse differently than me doesnt keep someone out of heaven.

Correct, interpreting a Bible verse differently than you does not mean one is not saved. Interpreting the Bible differently than the Church, however, depending upon what is being interpreted, could put one’s soul in grave danger. For instance, one committing mortal sin, yet believing that he does not have to confess that sin and repent because he is already saved, could very well find himself in hell. The Church is the pillar and foundation of truth, not you or I.

 

[stevekehl]

Cheezey,

Some may be understandable and clear…for example…let’s kick this around…what does 1Corinthians 4:6 mean…could mean one thing…how are you to know what this means?

Is understanding this passage critical to salvation? I don’t think so. One does not need to be a doctoral level theologian to understand what is critical to our salvation.

 

[jonathan_hili]

Recently I have meant 2 different Protestants that don’t go to any church because all they need is the bible and they can interprate it completely on thier own. Is this common?

After talking to both of them on different occasions I found thier theology other than recognizing the trinity didn’t fit anywhere

One went on to say Paul preaches a different salvation than the gospels and there 2 two types of salvation

Without the Church’s guidance, biblical exegesis can be a mess. The Bible is not self-interpreting and a person who relies solely on themselves and their Bible is probably following the thinking of one or more biblical scholars, or else is wildly alone.

Present your friends with the historical reality that, until only recently, there was no such thing as Bible Christianity - next to no individuals could read one, let alone afford one. If he or she lived three hundred years ago, nay six hundred years ago, he or she would probably be Catholic or Orthodox, probably never read a Bible, and gain her knowledge, understanding of and love for God from the Church, as it was from Day One.

 

[Porknpie]

Is understanding this passage critical to salvation? I don’t think so. One does not need to be a doctoral level theologian to understand what is critical to our salvation.

Steve, so you believe in OSAS?

 

[Isaiah45_9]

Is understanding this passage critical to salvation? I don’t think so. One does not need to be a doctoral level theologian to understand what is critical to our salvation.

Oh, but we do need to have the correct understanding before we put our foot in our mouth and start leading others down the wrong path.

A minimal and responsible look at Church history will clearly show all the heresies and wrong teachings the Catholic Church has had to face. All because of the naive and simplistic mindset of: “Is this really necessary?”…

Seriously it’s like “The Fall” all over again: “Did God really say you’ll truly die?”.

 

[Isaiah45_9]

I dont. I can tell you there are many protestants who arent truly saved just based on the reality of church in general, but I dont know who among us is truly saved and who isnt. A true believer can stumble and many of the best church goers are hollow.

Then why bring it up in the first place? If you can’t tell, why even mention it?

 

[stevekehl]

Steve, so you believe in OSAS?

Personally, I do not. It is not a doctrine taught by my church. By my church I mean the church I attend, not the church I have founded. I base this on the sixth chapter of Hebrews and Scriptures telling us that Satan entered Judas; this after Judas was given authority to heal the sick, restore the lame, cast out demons, and raise the dead (Matt 10:5-8, Mark 6:7-13, Luke 9:1-6) so the Holy Spirit was obviously with Him. However, I don’t believe our salvation is easily lost, such as dying with an unconfessed mortal sin on the soul. Catholics love to point out worst case scenarios when it comes to OSAS, the guy with six kids by four women saying “I love Jesus and hot chicks … and smokin’ weed.” However, should a person die in the midst of a crisis of faith I trust in God’s mercy and His perfect knowledge of each heart.

 

[stevekehl]

Oh, but we do need to have the correct understanding before we put our foot in our mouth and start leading others down the wrong path.

A minimal and responsible look at Church history will clearly show all the heresies and wrong teachings the Catholic Church has had to face. All because of the naive and simplistic mindset of: “Is this really necessary?”…

Seriously it’s like “The Fall” all over again: “Did God really say you’ll truly die?”.

How many of those heresies came from priests and bishops? How many came before the New Testament was compiled? How many came about before the Bible was widely available to the lay person? Almost all of them. So it’s hard to say the “me and my Bible” crowd are responsible for much of the wrong teachings the church has faced.
So. How is the correct interpretation of I Corinthians 4:6 an unclear passage,purposefully chosen, and taken out of context, critical for our salvation. Why couldn’t he have chosen I Corinthians 15:3-5, Verses like this make doctrine for salvation clear. More complicated Scriptures are dissected by theologians and debated by mature Christians, but God will honor the sincere heart, prayerfully reading Scriptures in search of the truth.

 

[stevekehl]

Steve,

Jehovah Witness, Mormons, Oneness Pentacostal and 7th Day Adventists are not an Island and have a pretty tough time figuring that out surrounded by all the resources…
not to mention this…
Who would be the guide or who would explain what you read?

First of all, Pentecostals and Seventh Day Adventists are Christians. JWs and Mormons were purposefully founded not by a sincere religious leader trying to discern God’s message from Scripture, but by men seeking power and wealth. They don’t look to the Bible but to other sources of authority they consider equal to the Bible.
The eunuch is not a great example. He was a foreigner reading a single book of prophecy without benefit of the rest of the Bible, so someone had to relate to him how Isaiah was fulfilled in Jesus. We have that information now.
Just a question, what guidance lead the church to offer indulgences?

 

[Nicea325]

How many of those heresies came from priests and bishops? How many came before the New Testament was compiled? How many came about before the Bible was widely available to the lay person? Almost all of them. So it’s hard to say the “me and my Bible” crowd are responsible for much of the wrong teachings the church has faced.
So. How is the correct interpretation of I Corinthians 4:6 an unclear passage,purposefully chosen, and taken out of context, critical for our salvation. Why couldn’t he have chosen I Corinthians 15:3-5, Verses like this make doctrine for salvation clear. More complicated Scriptures are dissected by theologians and debated by mature Christians, but God will honor the sincere heart, prayerfully reading Scriptures in search of the truth.

Indeed many heresies have popped up over the centuries before the Bible. However, today they do happen because of “me and my Bible” to deny it is just plain foolish.

 

[Nicea325]

First of all, Pentecostals and Seventh Day Adventists are Christians. JWs and Mormons were purposefully founded not by a sincere religious leader trying to discern God’s message from Scripture, but by men seeking power and wealth. They don’t look to the Bible but to other sources of authority they consider equal to the Bible.
The eunuch is not a great example. He was a foreigner reading a single book of prophecy without benefit of the rest of the Bible, so someone had to relate to him how Isaiah was fulfilled in Jesus. We have that information now.
Just a question, what guidance lead the church to offer indulgences?

The enuch is not a great example? The rest of the Bible? Tell me what the rest of the Bible consisted of during the 1st century?

What guidance lead the church to offer indulgences? First of all, do you even understand indulgences?

 

[Isaiah45_9]

You know, it’s ok to leave a space between questions

How many of those heresies came from priests and bishops?

A heresy is a heresy, would a heresy by a priest and/or a bishop justify a heresy from someone else? This sounds like: How come you arrested me for selling drugs? Other cops sell drugs too… Doesn’t really make a lot of sense…

How many came before the New Testament was compiled?

Well, that should be easy to find. Draw a line from 397AD and count them backwards. You know in 397AD The Catholic Church received and discern the New Testament with the help of the Holy Spirit

How many came about before the Bible was widely available to the lay person? Almost all of them.

Again, easy to draw a line. In 1456, Gutenberg Press printed the first version of the Bible, in Latin. What? The Catholic Church printed the Bible before the Protestants! Nah… . After this, you would have to research the literacy rate for each individual country in regards to its translated version of the Bible. It makes no difference if I speak English but doesn’t know how to read/write it and I see a Bible in English… It’s going to look Latin to me anyway.

So it’s hard to say the “me and my Bible” crowd are responsible for much of the wrong teachings the church has faced.

Who is saying that the “me and my Bible” crowd is responsible for much of the teachings the church has faced? We must read within the context.

So. How is the correct interpretation of I Corinthians 4:6 an unclear passage,purposefully chosen, and taken out of context, critical for our salvation.

You tell me:
biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Corinthians%204:6&version=RSVCE;NIV;KJV;ESV;NLT

Why couldn’t he have chosen I Corinthians 15:3-5, Verses like this make doctrine for salvation clear.

Would you like the Bible to be only those verses? If you want to keep it simple that’s between you and God. However, we grow in the Faith as the Lord draws us closer to Him. He wants a relationship, does He not? Or are we eat milk and cookies for the rest of our lives? (Not that there’s absolutely anything wrong with that )

More complicated Scriptures are dissected by theologians and debated by mature Christians, but God will honor the sincere heart, prayerfully reading Scriptures in search of the truth.

Amen! That’s indeed very Catholic, further we see in very simple terms where the fullness of truth can be found:

1 Timothy 3:15 if I am delayed, you may know how one ought to behave in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and bulwark of the truth.

It doesn’t get any simpler than that Steve.

Q. What is the pillar and bulwark of the truth?
A. The Church of the Living God.

Q. Was there such a Church at that time?
A. Yes.

Q. Is that Church still here today?
A. Yes.

Q. Where is that Church?
A. The Catholic Church.

The Epistle of Ignatius to the Smyrnaeans

Chapter 8. Let nothing be done without the bishop

See that you all follow the bishop, even as Jesus Christ does the Father, and the presbytery as you would the apostles; and reverence the deacons, as being the institution of God. Let no man do anything connected with the Church without the bishop. Let that be deemed a proper Eucharist, which is [administered] either by the bishop, or by one to whom he has entrusted it. Wherever the bishop shall appear, there let the multitude [of the people] also be; even as, wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church. It is not lawful without the bishop either to baptize or to celebrate a love-feast; but whatsoever he shall approve of, that is also pleasing to God, so that everything that is done may be secure and valid.