The Church teaches that women cannot be priests because of the example set by Jesus in selecting the apostles. So why are women allowed communion?

[sko]

I mentioned “matter” in regard to the Eucharist specifically – transubstantiation would not occur if the priest spoke the Words of Institution over a paten full of Oreo cookies. My comment as a whole meant to point out that Sacraments are not merely supernatural, but that their natural, perceivable aspect is also important. Sorry if I wrote something in a confusing way, I didn’t mean to.

 

[simpleas]

Baptism I have heard of, the matrimony not so much…
So there are at least two sacraments females can do (but only in un-usual circumstance I believe) So what of the others.
There is no denying Jesus was a man, no debate or argument there, so casting a male in a film role of Jesus’ life would be logical. What doesn’t seem to be logical is to limit what Jesus asked of his follows to men only.

 

[JHC]

I never heard that no women were present at Passover.

If Passover was a Seder meal then it involved family. All family members participate in the Seder.

 

[simpleas]

Thanks.

I don’t understand what matter means when speaking of the female person. Men and woman are different sexually and I’ve been told spiritually too, yet both are the form of each other and so God could ‘use’ both as priests.

 

[Fauken]

Baptism I have heard of, the matrimony not so much

It is a common misunderstanding that the sacrament of marriage is administered by the priest. It is not. The priest represents the Church as the couple exchanges their vows. It is the couple that actually administers the sacrament to each other during the wedding.

So there are at least two sacraments females can do (but only in un-usual circumstance I believe) So what of the others.

As I mentioned, women are the ordinary ministers of marriage along with their husbands-to-be. You are correct that ordinarily women do not perform baptism unless there is an emergency, but the same goes for men in the laity.

Priests are the ordinary minister for:

• Baptism
• Holy Eucharist
• Anointing of the sick

Bishops are the ordinary minister for all of those, with the additions of confirmation and holy orders.

It isn’t a matter of limiting them to men. It’s the nature of the sacraments themselves. Who consecrated the Eucharist at the Last Supper? Jesus. Who sealed the Apostles with the Holy Spirit? Jesus. Who ordained them? Jesus. When the priest administers those sacraments, Jesus is administering them through the priest. Our gender is not something purely biological, it’s something that is also reflected in our souls. It’s part of our nature, just as Christ’s manhood was reflected in His humanity.

 

[FiveLinden]

And I would venture a guess women prepared and served that meal.

And I would venture a guess that Jesus appointed women apostles. Just as much evidence (none).

 

[AlNg]

Women can baptize

Wait. Let’s see if I understand the arguments given so far:
The Son of God became incarnate as a man. And John the Baptist was a man. A woman cannot be a father. The twelve Apostles were all men. It is Jesus who is administering Baptism through the priest. And Jesus was a man. It is then of the very nature of the Sacrament that it should only be performed by men since they are the same gender as Jesus. If Jesus wanted a woman to perform baptism, why did he choose only men as His Twelve Apostles?

 

[HeDa]

There is a difference in apostle and disciple. Apostles were the 12 Jesus appointed and their successors. Disciple is anyone following Jesus.

 

[FiveLinden]

There is a difference in apostle and disciple. Apostles were the 12 Jesus appointed and their successors. Disciple is anyone following Jesus

Quite right. The point I was making is that we have no scriptural reference to say that Jesus did not appoint women apostles either during his life or miraculously as was done with Paul. Just as there is no evidence from scripture that women were at the last supper.

 

[FiveLinden]

Wait. Let’s see if I understand the arguments given so far:

The Son of God became incarnate as a man. And John the Baptist was a man. A woman cannot be a father. The twelve Apostles were all men. It is Jesus who is administering Baptism through the priest. And Jesus was a man. It is then of the very nature of the Sacrament that it should only be performed by men since they are the same gender as Jesus. If Jesus wanted a woman to perform baptism, why did he choose only men as His Twelve Apostles?

A very nicely argued point! Women, on this basis cannot baptise, just as they cannot be priests.

 

[FiveLinden]

Our gender is not something purely biological, it’s something that is also reflected in our souls.

Is this Catholic teaching, and if so, how does it square with Paul saying there is no male and female in Christ?

 

[Elizabeth3]

Wait. Let’s see if I understand the arguments given so far:

The Son of God became incarnate as a man. And John the Baptist was a man. A woman cannot be a father. The twelve Apostles were all men. It is Jesus who is administering Baptism through the priest. And Jesus was a man. It is then of the very nature of the Sacrament that it should only be performed by men since they are the same gender as Jesus. If Jesus wanted a woman to perform baptism, why did he choose only men as His Twelve Apostles?

In the Sacrament of the Eucharist, the words of Jesus are spoken in which He refers to Himself, This is my body…This is my blood. The priest stands in persona Christi and participates in the one priesthood of Christ, our High Priest.

In the Sacrament of Baptism, it is not necessary that the person baptizing is standing in persona Christi as it is for the Eucharist or other sacraments that only a priest can confer. The priest is the ordinary minister of this sacrament but anyone, even an unbaptized person can baptize if they intend to do what the Church does. The reason this would be allowed in emergency circumstances is due to the universal will of God that everyone be saved and because of the necessity of Baptism for salvation.

Both women and men have been given a noble, unique way to share in the sacrifice of Christ on the cross. When women conceive, they are in a sense saying, "This is my body…This is my blood, given for you. Like the Church born from the side of Christ on the Cross, the members that make up the Body of Christ as Church, are born through women’s sacrifice of their bodies in carrying, laboring to birth and feeding each new person. Every priest on the altar is there because of the unique participation in the sacrifice of the cross that women have been given.

When some men are called to the participation in Christ’s priesthood by the sacrifice of their lives in serving the Church by standing in persona Christi Capatis (in the person of Christ the Head), they are participating in Christ’s sacrifice on the cross in the way that is unique to men.

The ministerial priesthood and motherhood are dependent on one another to make possible for all members of the Body of Christ to partake of the Eucharist so that Christ can live in all who make up His One Body and be truly united to Him as Head.

 

[Elizabeth3]

Our gender is not something purely biological, it’s something that is also reflected in our souls.

Is this Catholic teaching, and if so, how does it square with Paul saying there is no male and female in Christ?

The Catechism of the Catholic Church teaches

365 The unity of soul and body is so profound that one has to consider the soul to be the “form” of the body:[234] i.e., it is because of its spiritual soul that the body made of matter becomes a living, human body; spirit and matter, in man, are not two natures united, but rather their union forms a single nature.

369 Man and woman have been created, which is to say, willed by God: on the one hand, in perfect equality as human persons; on the other, in their respective beings
as man and woman. “Being man” or “being woman” is a reality which is good and willed by God: man and woman possess an inalienable dignity which comes to them immediately from God their Creator.[240] Man and woman are both with one and the same dignity “in the image of God”. In their “being-man” and “being-woman”, they reflect the Creator’s wisdom and goodness.

370 In no way is God in man’s image. He is neither man nor woman. God is pure spirit in which there is no place for the difference between the sexes. But the respective “perfections” of man and woman reflect something of the infinite perfection of God: those of a mother and those of a father and husband.[241]

As far as Paul saying there is no male and female in Christ, it means that it is the one and same baptism we all receive

27For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed and heirs according to the promise.…

Your sex, your nationality, your social status cannot exclude you from being incorporated in Christ through baptism. Baptism gives a share in the common priesthood of all believers. Through Baptism we all become sons of God and brothers to each other. However, this doesn’t mean all have the same duties, gifts and obligations.

1 Cor 12: 27 Now you are the body of Christ and individually members of it.

1 Cor 12:4 Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.

5 And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord.

6 And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.

7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal…

11 But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.

 

[simpleas]

It is interesting to read posters own ways of understanding why women are not given a priestly role in our church.

From the CCC.

VI. WHO CAN RECEIVE THIS SACRAMENT?

1577 "Only a baptized man (vir) validly receives sacred ordination."66 The Lord Jesus chose men (viri) to form the college of the twelve apostles, and the apostles did the same when they chose collaborators to succeed them in their ministry.67 The college of bishops, with whom the priests are united in the priesthood, makes the college of the twelve an ever-present and ever-active reality until Christ’s return. The Church recognizes herself to be bound by this choice made by the Lord himself. For this reason the ordination of women is not possible.68

Pretty straight forward and simple from the church, Jesus didn’t chose women from among his followers to carry on his mission. Nothing to do with valid matter.

Sad in a way, no spiritual mothers given roles in bringing the word to people, yes we have Mary as an example, but no mothers within the ministerial priesthood.

 

[Elizabeth3]

Sad in a way, no spiritual mothers given roles in bringing the word to people, yes we have Mary as an example, but no mothers within the ministerial priesthood.

But all women are called to be spiritual mothers and then there are those called to the religious life as nuns and sisters who bring the word to people through their own teaching, intercessory, and serving functions. Mother Angelica who founded EWTN, for example. You can say she preached the Gospel to more people than the average parish priest. She was a giant of spiritual motherhood. The Church also declares either men or women to be Doctors of the Church. “A title given since the Middle Ages to certain saints whose writing or preaching is outstanding for guiding the faithful in all periods of the Church’s history.”

Why is it sad that women aren’t called to the ministerial priesthood? It doesn’t exclude them from sharing the Gospel. Is the ministerial priesthood greater than the common priesthood of all believers? No. Not according to the CCC.

1547 The ministerial or hierarchical priesthood of bishops and priests, and the common priesthood of all the faithful participate, “each in its own proper way, in the one priesthood of Christ.” While being “ordered one to another,” they differ essentially.22 In what sense? While the common priesthood of the faithful is exercised by the unfolding of baptismal grace --a life of faith, hope, and charity, a life according to the Spirit–, the ministerial priesthood is at the service of the common priesthood.

And again, motherhood, both physical and spiritual, has it’s own unique way of sacrificing for and serving both the common and ministerial priesthood. God willed for women to fulfill this noble purpose just as Mary, through her motherhood, gave us Christ, the High Priest.

 

[simpleas]

Why is it sad that women aren’t called to the ministerial priesthood? It doesn’t exclude them from sharing the Gospel. Is the ministerial priesthood greater than the common priesthood of all believers? No. Not according to the CCC.

Thanks for your post. I do recognise that many lay women and men have brought the Gospel to others and have committed their lives to doing so with great rewards.

I do wonder about ‘the call’ to minister as a priest. The church teaches that Jesus chose only men to be ministers, and so the tradition has continued until this day. We have faith that a priest, once ordained can turn the bread and wine into the body and blood of Jesus Christ,yet there is no faith in believing God would use a woman to do the same. That is what I find sad.

 

[Fauken]

We have faith that a priest, once ordained can turn the bread and wine into the body and blood of Jesus Christ,yet there is no faith in believing God would use a woman to do the same. That is what I find sad.

Why would it be sad? Is it sad that there is no faith that God would use a man to make the Word flesh and dwell among us? Is it sad for men that those same men who were called to be his Apostles and bishops were the ones who betrayed ans abandoned Him at his most perilous hour, and crucifued Him? Or that they will never bear life like women can?

 

[simpleas]

Out of my own curiosity to learn what goes on -

The role of women at the seder is the same as the role of men—to recount, discuss and delve into the miracle of the Exodus and how it relates to us today. They should definitely read from the Haggadah and they can take the leading role in the seder, in explaining the Haggadah and discussing commentary on it.

Halachically, too, there is no distinction between men and women with regards to the night’s obligations.1

And I would venture a guess women prepared and served that meal.

 

[HeDa]

Pope, now saint, John Paul II said that “the Church has no authority to ordain women to the priesthood”. The authority to ordain men to the priesthood comes from God. Read the ecclesiastical letter Ordinatio Sacerdotalis (from year 1994) which deals with the priesthood and it is in line with what the church has previously taught.

 

[Elizabeth3]

We have faith that a priest, once ordained can turn the bread and wine into the body and blood of Jesus Christ,yet there is no faith in believing God would use a woman to do the same. That is what I find sad.

The priest doesn’t turn the bread and wine into the Body and Blood. The bread and Wine become the Body and Blood through the power of the Holy Spirit who is invoked by the words of consecration (This is my body…This is my Blood) spoken by the priest standing in the person of Christ the Head.

We believe the bread and wine are consecrated as the Body and Blood of Christ because of the commission given by Christ to his Apostles at the Last Supper as the CCC states. Why would we have faith that God would use a woman to do the same when there is no precedent for it in the O.T. or the N.T.? Do you think that it means there is something unworthy about women in that God doesn’t call them to the priesthood? Is there something unworthy about men in that God left them out of the Incarnation?