The Church & WWII

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ElizaMJ

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I am accustomed to my Baptist boyfriend questioning and usually disagreeing with all things Catholic but last night we really got into it when he said that the Church did nothing about World War II and the holocaust.

Whether Pope Pius XII did nothing or saved the whole world, I have no qualms because I have always felt like, “What was he supposed to do?” Geesh.

I was wondering if anyone could point me to any sources of information about what the Church did do during this period or if anyone could give me the words to argue against this long-standing claim.

Thanks so much.
 
Surely you realize that this relationship has absolutely no future whatsoever?
 
Surely you realize that this relationship has absolutely no future whatsoever?
And how does that comment in any way help answer her question?

ElizaMJ I don’t know a lot of church history but here’s a link to an article on Piux XII
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_Pius_XII#World_War_II
It states that the pope publicly denounced the holocaust.

You might ask your boyfriend what the head of the Baptist church did about the holocaust.
 
Was His Holiness Pope Pius XII not given a monetary reward from a world Jewish council?

Did he not hide many Jews in Castel Gandolfo?

Was he not called by newspapers at the time as a lone voice crying out against injustice?
 
Even before Pius XII, his predecessor published an Encyclical entitled “Mit Brennender Sorge.” If you are familiar with Latin, you will easily see that this isn’t it. It was written in German, and seems to make the statement that the Third Reich had idolized race, and was horribly wrong. It was also very encouraging to the people in Germany who may have objected:

"As you affectionately visited Us in Our illness, so also We turn to you, and through you, the German Catholics, who, like all suffering and afflicted children, are nearer to their Father’s heart. At a time when your faith, like gold, is being tested in the fire of tribulation and persecution, when your religious freedom is beset on all sides, when the lack of religious teaching and of normal defense is heavily weighing on you, you have every right to words of truth and spiritual comfort from him whose first predecessor heard these words from the Lord: “I have prayed for thee that thy faith fail not: and thou being once converted, confirm thy brethren” (Luke xxii. 32; Mit Brennender Sorge, paragraph 6).
 
And how does that comment in any way help answer her question?
By pointing out that that it is a futile gesture to attempt to argue religion with a boyfriend or girlfriend, that no one will be convinced, and that one should probably consider not spending time with someone so contrary to one’s beliefs. :tiphat:
 
I am accustomed to my Baptist boyfriend questioning and usually disagreeing with all things Catholic but last night we really got into it when he said that the Church did nothing about World War II and the holocaust.

Whether Pope Pius XII did nothing or saved the whole world, I have no qualms because I have always felt like, “What was he supposed to do?” Geesh.

I was wondering if anyone could point me to any sources of information about what the Church did do during this period or if anyone could give me the words to argue against this long-standing claim.

Thanks so much.
I think the best way to approach this subject is to refer anyone to the Jewish authors who have written on this and defended Pope Pius XII for what he did to rescue Jews. One such author is Pinchas Lapide whose book unfortunately is out of print. But recently Dr. David Dalin, a history prof and rabbi wrote “The Myth of Hitler’s Pope”. An excellent book he shows how the pope worked hard to save Europe’s Jews whenever he could. Also, Martin Gilbert a Jewish historian of the holocaust has also defended Pius XII in a recent book.
See: zenit.org/article-6593?l=english
This site has lots of good info. : popepiusxiiandthejews.blogspot.com/

One point to remember is that Cardinal Palazzini was honored at Yad Vashem in Israel as a “righteous Gentile” for his efforts to rescue Jews. Ditto for Bishop Roncalli who became Pope John XXIII. Both Roncalli and Palazzini stated that what they did was done under the express orders of Pius XII.

C.
 
Hello, i saw several excellent replies but you also may want to find the Golda Meirs speech that was given at the popes funeral. She praised his efforts to igh heaven.
 
Here are some quick details:
Hundreds of thousands of Jews were hidden in churches and monstaries throughout Europe. Priests commonly made up false baptismal records for Jews to keep in their homes. Several hundred Jews were hidden by the Vatican in Rome. The Church aided in issuing emergency passports to Catholic-friendly nations for Jews. The chief Rabbi of Rome and his wife became Catholic shortly after the war ended because the charity of the Pope towards protecting them converted their hearts to Christ. Even Einstein, who was an athiest, is quoted as saying he never much paid mind to the Church before the war but afterwards he was truly impressed with its actions. There are many, many nuns and priests who gave their lives protecting Jews and many went to the concentration camps.
As for the Pope doing more…what was he to do? The Swiss gaurd is not a force for battle. Drawing attention to the Church would just endanger the many Jews that were hidden. Documents have surfaced which show that Hitler wanted to assacinate the Pope…however he knew it was a delicate situation since many Catholics might revolt against him.
It has come out in recent years that the KGB decided to slander the Church by rewriting history since the Church stands in the way of government control. Evangelicals have grabbed onto the trend and spread slander to this day. Ask him what Baptists as a group did to end the Holocaust? As valiant as our men were in battle at defeating Hitler and his evil, it took even the United State a while to join in the war.
 
I am accustomed to my Baptist boyfriend questioning and usually disagreeing with all things Catholic but last night we really got into it when he said that the Church did nothing about World War II and the holocaust.

Whether Pope Pius XII did nothing or saved the whole world, I have no qualms because I have always felt like, “What was he supposed to do?” Geesh.

I was wondering if anyone could point me to any sources of information about what the Church did do during this period or if anyone could give me the words to argue against this long-standing claim.

Thanks so much.
Hiyas:)

It is an interesting note; The Jewish community holds the Vatican under Popes Pius XI and Pius XII in high regard for their actions before and during WWII.

This erroneous anti-Catholic view [as can be seen by the links here ] does not come from the Jewish community OR world leaders…it comes from from people selling their books products ]. Much akin to the deliberate mis-information in the Da vinci Code.

Sadly, it is picked-up and held as “truth”… by some.

I hope this helps
 
You might ask your b/f to reference his sources…I’m almost certain it will be two specific writers. Dave Hunt …and Jack Chick ].
 
I have a book that tells the story of what one famous Italian city did to save Jews from the Nazis in WWII. It’s called ‘The Assisi Underground’.

In this book, the ‘leader’ of this underground operation, Padre Ruffino Niccaci, tells of his role in hiding Jewish refugees-mostly Eastern European-under the very noses of the Nazis. The Germans took over Assisi in October 1943 [on the very eve of St. Francis’ death, as the townspeople were at the traditional ‘Transitus’ service in the Basilica of San Francesco!]. The town was going to be used as a convalescent center for wounded German soldiers. Providentially, the German commandant was a Catholic from Bavaria [yep, the same area that Papa Benedict was born], Colonel Robert Mueller, who was a doctor by profession-and no Nazi.

Padre Ruffino, along with the Bishop of Assisi, Nicolini [can’t think of his last name right now, but I think he was a Benedictine], and the head priest of San Rufino Cathedral Don Aldo Brunacci, did everything they could to protect the Jews who sought shelter. They were placed at first in one of the Poor Clare monasteries-over the initial objection of the Mother Superior-as well as in trusted private homes.

Not one Jewish refugee was ever caught. Only one died, and she suffered complications from diabetes. And another refugee, who got a job with the German army, did a very daring-and potentially dangerous-thing: he forged the signature of Field Marshal Kesselring [commander of German forces in northern Italy] on a document that declared Assisi an open city. By this time, in August 1944, the British were on their way up the Italian peninsula. In fact, SS sappers were already planting mines around buildings in Assisi to destroy everything in the face of the Allied advance. But the document found its way into the hands of Colonel Mueller; and he, not knowing it was a forgery, ordered all German troops to leave town, thus saving Assisi from destruction.

For the heroic work that Padre Ruffino and the others in Assisi did, the Israeli government awarded Padre Ruffino, Bishop Nicolini [posthumously] and Don Brunacci the ‘Righteous Gentile’ award. And Colonel Mueller was considered a hero by the people of Assisi for saving their city from being destroyed.

So when I hear people saying that the Church did nothing to save the Jews in World War II, I say, ‘Look at what the people in the city of St. Francis did!’
 
Keep in mind that Hitler called Pope Pius XII his “greatest enemy.” That, alone, speaks volumes.
 
You should read Ronald J. Rychlak’s “Hitler, the War, and the Pope” it is a great book. Scholarly - though still easy to read. It is highly foot noted with sources.

He even discusses how this 'Myth" was started, by whom and why …

If your boy friend would read it too - all the better … Rychlak’s work covers the time from the end of WWI through the end of WWII … it would be neat if you and yorur BF could go to the library and actually read the newspaper stories cited in the book … Pius received some very high praise … as other posters have noted

Also, in case you can’t get your BF to read a scholarly work … watch the movie “The Scarlet and the Black” … .then research Father Hugh O’Flaherty … sometimes a movie can be a avenue that gets a mind opened and starts the quest for information and truth 🙂 it is non - threatening - “entertainment”

heres a link: hughoflaherty.com/index.cfm/page/home

Though like those who want to re-write the history surrounding the Pope - there are those who want to re-write the history around Father O’Flaherty as well …

The Chief Rabbi of Rome during the war converted after WWII taking the baptismal name Eugenio [the Pope’s name] … a pretty high compliment …

Remember, that the Vatican - though a City-State - does not have a standing army and was situated inside Italy - a country aligned with Nazi Germany … as you said … what exactly was the Pope “supposed to do?” … the fact is that the Pope played a significant role in the saving of lives … and he did so while walking a dangerously narrow path, without firing a shot and holding fast to the teachings of Christ …
 
Thanks so much for all of your helpful replies and especially the links and book recommendations! I’ll definitely check all of this stuff out.

For those of you that suggested I ask him what the Baptist leader (is there even one???) did, I did in some form: I asked him what the 30,000+ protestant denominations did. He said as a consolidated religion with a hierarchical system, the Church should have done more, to which I said, “Isn’t that one reason protestants left the Church to begin with? So you think an authoritative head of religion is bad until you need him to help you?” Cue irrational ultra-defensive arguments ;).
 
Thanks so much for all of your helpful replies and especially the links and book recommendations! I’ll definitely check all of this stuff out.

For those of you that suggested I ask him what the Baptist leader (is there even one???) did, I did in some form: I asked him what the 30,000+ protestant denominations did. He said as a consolidated religion with a hierarchical system, the Church should have done more, to which I said, “Isn’t that one reason protestants left the Church to begin with? So you think an authoritative head of religion is bad until you need him to help you?” Cue irrational ultra-defensive arguments ;).
One thing you might point out … catholics preWWII [collectiely speaking- as a demographic] were less educated and had less economic clout then their protestant counter parts …

World War II comes, America enters the war and catholics served in the military in greater proportionate numbers then protestants …

War ends, GI Bill allows veteran’s the opportunity to achieve college degrees, many being the first in thier families to attend college … by the 1960’s catholics [as a general rule]were moving and / or had moved from the poorer of americans into the middle class …

It has been about 15 years back or so but the Kinights of Columbus had a very long article on this subject in their Columbia magazine.
 
One thing you might point out … catholics preWWII [collectiely speaking- as a demographic] were less educated and had less economic clout then their protestant counter parts …

World War II comes, America enters the war and catholics served in the military in greater proportionate numbers then protestants …

War ends, GI Bill allows veteran’s the opportunity to achieve college degrees, many being the first in thier families to attend college … by the 1960’s catholics [as a general rule]were moving and / or had moved from the poorer of americans into the middle class …

It has been about 15 years back or so but the Kinights of Columbus had a very long article on this subject in their Columbia magazine.
That’s very interesting YADA, thank you!

I forgot to answer the question about where my boyfriend got this information about: He’s a history major and claimed that “every history book ever written” will say that the Catholic Church was MIA during WWII. :mad:
 
That’s very interesting YADA, thank you!

I forgot to answer the question about where my boyfriend got this information about: He’s a history major and claimed that “every history book ever written” will say that the Catholic Church was MIA during WWII. :mad:
:rotfl:Perhaps only those used at Bob Jones University …

But alas, history books are being wre-written as we speak :hypno:

Check out Rychlak’s book … he quotes from the New York Times * during the War where they refer to the Popes’ being a lone voice raised against the Nazi’s … , etc …

If you can get the book you could go to the library and search the archives for the actual news clippings from the 1930’s and 1940’s … then you could look at the source documents … not some edited general history book that comes witht he bias’ of the compiler … If you could get your BF to engage you could run a little ‘contest’ too see who could produce the most accurate information …

ANd then comes the question: What is it that attracts you to some guy who shows your faith such lack of respect? :confused:*
 
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