Wow! I did not know that there was another kind of Literature in the Catholic Church which speaks of Jesus. I thought the NT was the only thing we had about Jesus. It might be interesting to know more about this. If the authority to preach was given to the Church by Jesus and not by the NT. What do you have as an evidence of what you say?
The more you make statements like this the less credible you are. I’ll take the likes of Dr Arnold Fruchenbaum’s word over your word any day of the week. As I said, you don’t seem you can be reasoned with and now it’s apparent you’re not able to be reasoned with because you’re unreasonable. Sorry to be so blunt but I don’t see any other way to answer you.
) But somewehre in the foggy past, I think you tipped your hand, and disclosed your past.The writings of the Early Church Fathers and other works, such as the Didache. The NT is not the only document that affirms what we know and believe about Christ.
Let’s not forget that Josephus also mentioned the early Christians and the historical Jesus. Although Ben’s skewed history would discount Josephus, (when he does not support the mythic history Ben gives us) as a Hellenized Jew.
I hesitated to mention Josephus because he doesn’t give evidence of Jesus’ resurrection–at least I don’t think he does. I’m not all that familiar with his writings except what I’ve read here about them.
Oh yes. In Jesus’ day there were various faction–and they all lived with each other. Judaism doesn’t speak with a united voice. The Seat of Moses passed to Jesus and he passed it on to his Apostles, although I wouldn’t expect non-Catholic Jews to accept that.
Why don’t you read I Kings 18:23,40? Prophet Elijah had also his hyphenated Jews at his time. They were called “Jews-for-Baal.” They would practice pagan rituals and insist on being identified as Jews. Elijah said they would straddle the issue, without a decision to follow only our God or only Baal. They would insist on staying in between: Following Baal while holding the identity of the real Jews who would follow only God. Elijah lost his patience and slit the throats of 850 of them. At least, I behave a little more civilized than Elijah by agreeing to dialogue with them. Have I rebuilt back my credibility?
**At least, about something in this post of yours, you said all: You don’t have a photographic memory. Otherwise, you would not have forgotten the stock where we have come from. It is deplorable for lack of a better word.Well from my hyphonated point of reference, Ben sounds more like a disgruntled Worldwide Church of God, refugee. The only thing missing is the inclusion of England, and the stone of scone, otherwise there seems to be lots of Herbert Armstrong and his fellow travellers in your messages. I’d take what Ben writes about what Jews believe with a pillar of salt. I was raised in a very observant Sephardic home. Grandfather was a rabbi, and scholar. I also made the rounds of Azkenazi shuls and heard a far different understanding there from what Ben writes.
Remind me Ben, Since I don’t have a photographic memory. I seem to recall somewhere that you are a convert to Judaism, or a quasi Jewish sect that presents a different slant on Jewish thinking than the rest of us were taught. I could be wrong, (I was once
I think you are only ruminating on food already chewed by Hellenistic jaws.
Several Scholars assert that prior to the 4th Century, no one had ever heard of a quotation from Josephus about Jesus or Christians from the time of Paul. Afterwards, he started being quoted. I wonder why! Then, I found out that pious forgery was an allowance by the Church, as long as it contributed to the common good of the Church. Then, exaggerations became the order of the day. In the name of Piety one could interpolate any kind of forgery. Therefore, not only Josephus but also Philo were out confirming for those who had a more restless mind, that Christianity was here to stay.
As I wrote, I know little about Josephus except that he gave into the Romans and bowed before them instead of being killed at Masada. His “history” is taken with a grain of salt by all good scholars, be they Catholic or secular.
That is not what these scholars say.
The Scholars do not dispute that Josephus wrote of Jesus and the Christians only that there were suspected additions.
It is too frustrating to have a religious conversation with Catholics who are too framed by Church authority. The bandages are so narrow at their eyes that they become unable to see beyond the length of their nose.
Yet you continue to come here attack, belittle and slander Catholics. Moreso Jews who after study and prayer have decided that they can only be good Jews by converting to Catholicism.
**Stop the cop-out once and for all! You are not Jewish. What do you think, that to be Jewish is to belong to a different race? If you regret to have confessed your religious loyalty to another strange faith, just give up and return. This of following the rites of a strange religion and insisting with being identified as a Jew, you remind me of Elijah and the Jews-for-Baal who used to practice a pagan religion and to insist that they were still Jews. Ellijah said they were straddling the issue neither following the true God nor Paganism all the way. Therefore, he Elijah lost his patience and slit the throats of 850 of them. You are lucky that we don’t have Elijahs today. (I Kings 18:23,40)
If the Jewish people and the Catholics after them had always stuck themselves to God’s ways, maybe everything would have been so different!
Y., this person has just told you he was raised a Sephardi. Why is it BTW that those Christians who were born Jews should be told they are not Jews anymore because they became Christians? It’s when the Nazarenes, who were called “Christians” after a number of years, were banned from the Temple and the synagogues, little by little and then officially, that they were cut off from the Jewish people.