The Concept of a Coming Messiah

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Ben_Masada

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The Concept of a Coming Messiah

The concept of first or second coming, or third for that matter is related to the People of Israel as they return to the Land of Israel. The first coming was when
the People left the life of captivity in Egypt and returned to Canaan with Moses
to build the First Commonwealth.

When Nebuchadnezzar, King of Babylon, destroyed the first Temple built by Solomon, the Jews were taken into exile for 70 years. Jews then, would speak of the second coming until it happened under Ezra and Nehemiah, when they succeeded to rebuild the Second Temple and therefore, the Second Commonwealth.

Now, when the Romans destroyed the Second Temple, the Jews were expelled into an almost two thousand years exile. As that was over, and having raised our Third Commonwhealth, this has been our third coming back. The Temple will soon be rebuilt. God willing!

This concept of “coming” is of the Paople, or of a remnant of the People, but as a People, not the individual. The individual once dead, he will never return. (Job 7:9,10; 10:21; 14:12; Psalm 88:6; Prov. 2:19)

Jesus’ second coming has no grounds to stand but on faith only. If you are ready to believe blindly, go ahead, but anxiety as a result of empty hopes will strike with time. When I finally understood this concept in terms of the collective rather then the individual, the pain of unfulfilled expectations was gone.

Ben: 🙂
 
So, Zionism is the proof of the coming of the Messiah. The coming of the Jews into the state of Israel means the Messiah has come. OK, fine with me.

And in what situation you interpret the coming of Elijah preceeding the Messiah? WWII?

Jesus second coming is indeed a faith, just like the fall of asteroid on earth. You cannot say when it will happen. But, a non occurence of things in the future does not mean invalid.
 
swariffin said:
So, Zionism is the proof of the coming of the Messiah. The coming of the Jews into the state of Israel means the Messiah has come. OK, fine with me.

And in what situation you interpret the coming of Elijah preceeding the Messiah? WWII?

Jesus second coming is indeed a faith, just like the fall of asteroid on earth. You cannot say when it will happen. But, a non occurence of things in the future does not mean invalid.
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Wow! When I thought we were through with each other, there you are to be the first to pick my next thread. Yes, the return of the Jews into the State of Israel means the Messiah has come. But this is for me and the Prophet Isaiah, not for you. You can continue waiting for the return of yours. After a wait of two thousand years, I guess you must not be in a hurry.

Elijah died. His coming back would be a contradiction in the Tanach that the dead once dead will never return. The prophecy in Malachi 4:5 is of a change of heart in the person, family and in the People, which is symbolized by the person of Elijah. But that’s not literal.

Ben: 🙂
 
Can you show how this return to Isreal was God’s work and not man’s?
 
Ben_Masada said:
Wow! When I thought we were through with each other, there you are to be the first to pick my next thread. Yes, the return of the Jews into the State of Israel means the Messiah has come. But this is for me and the Prophet Isaiah, not for you. You can continue waiting for the return of yours. After a wait of two thousand years, I guess you must not be in a hurry.

Elijah died. His coming back would be a contradiction in the Tanach that the dead once dead will never return. The prophecy in Malachi 4:5 is of a change of heart in the person, family and in the People, which is symbolized by the person of Elijah. But that’s not literal.

Ben: 🙂
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AH, I see an extrapolation of Thorah. By the way, you are wrong. We believe the Messiah has come. What we believe for the second coming, is the end of time where the devil is defeated.

It is good if people (not only the Jews) to change the heart to come back to the real word of God. Salvation is in God’s hand.

BTW, Isiah 11:1 said " 1. And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots:". So, Isiah had prophesized that Ha Massiah was the stem of Jesse (whom we know as the father of David). The fact was it was the British who prepared for the state of Israel in 1947. From your OP, you are saying the British are the Jewish.
 
Dear Ben,

Out of topic question please?
  1. Do you have eggs as the ingredient of the unleavened bread for the passover?
  2. What kind of bitter herbs that you eat during passover meal?
Thanks
 
swariffin said:
Dear Ben,

Out of topic question please?
  1. Do you have eggs as the ingredient of the unleavened bread for the passover?
  2. What kind of bitter herbs that you eat during passover meal?
Thanks
Click to expand...
I use eggs for Passover but not as an ingredient of the unleavened bread.
And for bitter herbs, I use Roman lettuce.

Ben: 🙂
 
swariffin said:
AH, I see an extrapolation of Thorah. By the way, you are wrong. We believe the Messiah has come. What we believe for the second coming, is the end of time where the devil is defeated.

It is good if people (not only the Jews) to change the heart to come back to the real word of God. Salvation is in God’s hand.

BTW, Isiah 11:1 said " 1. And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots:". So, Isiah had prophesized that Ha Massiah was the stem of Jesse (whom we know as the father of David). The fact was it was the British who prepared for the state of Israel in 1947. From your OP, you are saying the British are the Jewish.
Click to expand...
Well, to believe in Devil, you might as well believe that an individual Messiah will come back.

Regarding what Isaiah says in 11:1. I agree with him. The branch that grew up out of his roots is the Jewish People that God promised David it would remain forever as a Lamp in Jerusalem. (I Kings 11:36) You are too literal and get lost in the meaning of Biblical truth.

Regarding the British, you are inventing things that are not in my OP. Sorry.

Ben: 🙂
 
Ben_Masada said:
Not only but also. It applies to every time Israel is found in exile anywhere in the world.

Ben: 🙂
Click to expand...
Was there a prophet who announced that it was time to go home?

Was there a sign from God that Israel had learned its lesson and turned from whatever sins they had committed?
 
ralphinal said:
Was there a prophet who announced that it was time to go home?

Was there a sign from God that Israel had learned its lesson and turned from whatever sins they had committed?
Click to expand...
Yes. After 400 years of exile in Egypt, God sent Moses, as a Messianic leader to tell them that it was over. It was enough, and that the Messiah should get ready to return to the Promised Land.(Gen. 15:13)

The Jews got exiled again, and then to Babylon for 70 years. When the time was over, God provided, this time a Gentile as a Messianic leader to proclaim the return of the Messiah with Ezra and Nehemiah at the head, back to the Land of Israel. (Isa. 45:1)

But then, the Jews got exiled again, and this time throughout the world, especially to the West. When the time, which had not been specified, had arrived to end, God knows, He provided the Messianic leader Herlz to inspire the Messiah with love for Zion. Since this exile had taken too long and the Messiah had got used with the comfort of the graves among the nations, it took a Holocaust to wake them up. IEzek. 37:12)

Last but not least, you can read besides all the quotations above, the main one in Isaiah 11:12 about the signal raised by God to the nations so that the Jews be gathered back in the Land of Israel from the four courners of the Earth.

Ben: 🙂
 
Ben_Masada said:
Well, to believe in Devil, you might as well believe that an individual Messiah will come back.

Regarding what Isaiah says in 11:1. I agree with him. The branch that grew up out of his roots is the Jewish People that God promised David it would remain forever as a Lamp in Jerusalem. (I Kings 11:36) You are too literal and get lost in the meaning of Biblical truth.

Regarding the British, you are inventing things that are not in my OP. Sorry.

Ben: 🙂
Click to expand...
Then you let the scriptures too open for too many ideas or interpretation.
 
swariffin said:
Then you let the scriptures too open for too many ideas or interpretation.
Click to expand...
I don’t believe the problem is with the Scriptures but with the ability of the reader to understand what he or she is reading.

Ben:
 
Ben_Masada said:
Yes. After 400 years of exile in Egypt, God sent Moses, as a Messianic leader to tell them that it was over. It was enough, and that the Messiah should get ready to return to the Promised Land.(Gen. 15:13)

The Jews got exiled again, and then to Babylon for 70 years. When the time was over, God provided, this time a Gentile as a Messianic leader to proclaim the return of the Messiah with Ezra and Nehemiah at the head, back to the Land of Israel. (Isa. 45:1)

But then, the Jews got exiled again, and this time throughout the world, especially to the West. When the time, which had not been specified, had arrived to end, God knows, He provided the Messianic leader Herlz to inspire the Messiah with love for Zion. Since this exile had taken too long and the Messiah had got used with the comfort of the graves among the nations, it took a Holocaust to wake them up. IEzek. 37:12)

Last but not least, you can read besides all the quotations above, the main one in Isaiah 11:12 about the signal raised by God to the nations so that the Jews be gathered back in the Land of Israel from the four courners of the Earth.

Ben: 🙂
Click to expand...
What signs and wonders did Herlz do to show him to be this leader?

What makes him the modern Moses?
 
ralphinal said:
What signs and wonders did Herlz do to show him to be this leader?

What makes him the modern Moses?
Click to expand...
What signs are you referring to? Read about his life and you will see the sacrifices he had to go through to plant the seed of love for Zion in the hearts of the Jews. He died without seeing his dream come through but the seed lodged itself in our hearts to germinate with the blood we shed in the Holocaust. That’s what we needed to take Herlz’s message to heart. He did not become exactly like Moses because at the time of Herlz we didn’t have to carry stones on our shoulders to build cities for Pharaoh. We were too comfortable to believe that the time had arrived to return to Zion.

Ben: 😊
 
Ben_Masada said:
What signs are you referring to? Read about his life and you will see the sacrifices he had to go through to plant the seed of love for Zion in the hearts of the Jews. He died without seeing his dream come through but the seed lodged itself in our hearts to germinate with the blood we shed in the Holocaust. That’s what we needed to take Herlz’s message to heart. He did not become exactly like Moses because at the time of Herlz we didn’t have to carry stones on our shoulders to build cities for Pharaoh. We were too comfortable to believe that the time had arrived to return to Zion.

Ben: 😊
Click to expand...
So, he had no sign from God of his role? Moses did wonders. What did this cat do?
 
Ben Masada:
This concept of “coming” is of the Paople, or of a remnant of the People, but as a People, not the individual. The individual once dead, he will never return. (Job 7:9,10; 10:21; 14:12; Psalm 88:6; Prov. 2:19)
Click to expand...
As a BTW, here is Jobs’ belief in his Redeemer *and *in the ressurrection of his own selfsame flesh from the dead;

For I know that my Redeemer liveth, and in the last day I shall rise out of the earth.
26 And I shall be clothed again with my skin, and in my flesh I will see my God. 27 Whom I myself shall see, and my eyes shall behold, and not another: this my hope is laid up in my bosom.
 
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