The Crusades - would you join?

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You need to remember the reason behind killing everyone;

For one, God had decided that the Israelites should obtain the land. The Canaanites essentially lost the right to be on that land once God promised it to Israel. The conquest was certainly brutal, but if the children were allowed to survive, they would come back to avenge their fathers. Thus, they couldn’t be allowed to do so. War involves cruel decisions, but is sometimes necessary.
 
Isn’t this discussion now off into Moral Theology territory now?🤷
 
Chris_B said:
You need to remember the reason behind killing everyone;

For one, God had decided that the Israelites should obtain the land. The Canaanites essentially lost the right to be on that land once God promised it to Israel. The conquest was certainly brutal, but if the children were allowed to survive, they would come back to avenge their fathers. Thus, they couldn’t be allowed to do so. War involves cruel decisions, but is sometimes necessary.
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Great point, Chris, but if we hold that up to the tenets of Just War doctrine, it fails on several fronts. Again, the big exception is God Himself ordered it; Edwin is however correct in pointing out that any number of the battles of the OT represented wars of aggression.

Also agree with you on the larger point. The firebombing of Tokyo looks a lot different 50 years on than it did to generals facing the prospect of a million or more dead Americans in Operation Olympic.
 
And doesn’t Billy Graham call for crusades all the time?

Pretty bloodthirsty guy, that Billy Graham! 😉
 
Contarini said:
That’s almost unbelievable. The battles in the Old Testament break the just war doctrine to shreds. They were holy wars of annihilation (at least the battles fought in the conquest of Canaan–other battles, such as Asa’s defeat of an invading Kushite army, or Jephthah’s war against the Ammonites, do meet just war criteria). They cannot be used as a precedent for Christians. Are you suggesting that just war involves the slaughter of women and children?
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Yes, when you think about it I will agree that some OT battles did not follow Just War, but then again no one complains of the ‘brutality’ of the Israelite nation in any battle they fought, due to them being the Chosen nation and God commanding many battles they engaged in.

But, unfortunately we don’t have Moses as our go-between with God at this point, which results in the Just War Doctrine.
 
I would join. If the pope called for a crusade (not that it would ever happen), he’d have a good reason too, and I for one would be glad to lay down my life for the faith.
 
If the pope called for another Crusade then I would most definitly join. Before I am accused of beinga war mongerer I would like to explain myself. First, the pope would logically have to have a good reason for calling for another Crusade just as Pope Urban II did for the First Crusade. Second, the Islamic Wolrd has always been hostile towards us and will always be that way. If things have not worked out for the past 1400 years then it is obvious they won’t work out at all. I personally have no problems with Moslems. I don’t hate them. Its just their religion has a knack for harrasing Christianity.

Anyways if the pope does call for a Crusade then I will be on top of the Temple Mount of Jerusalem. I will quote the French general who stood up there after the Allied victory of World War I, “Saladin I have returned to ensure the triumph of the cross over the crescent”.

Their is a time for peace and a time for war. If the pope ever calls for war then it is a time for war; especially in these times.

God speed.

Vigis
 
This has got to be the weirdest thread ever on this forum.
:whacky: :dancing: :hypno: :hmmm:

Let me guess, those who actually said yes to this question would probably opt to wear full armor, complete with sword and shield and drink ale out of leather mugs.

Go get 'em tigers!

ggrrrrrr!
 
No, I think too much to do anything like that.
For those who worry that evil can overcome good, be mindful that it takes only one live Christian to keep the faith alive. They can’t kill us all.
The first Crusade was a disaster in that the “Christian” armies attacked and killed peaceful Jews and Christians living in Jerusalem. A new slaughter of the innocents a la Herod.
One poster noted that no one wins a war. I will add to that that one side loses only a little less than the other. How much of your Christianity are you willing to lose over an insignificant piece of real estate? And will your lose be in the end greater than theirs?

Matthew
 
yah man. get some pick up trucks, armor them with extra plating, and attach machine guns to the roof of the truck and get rollin’.

does the vatican have an army?

hey go to some search ingine. or maybe just www.hitman.com and see if there is a movie trailer. it looks cool, i want to see it.
 
We need to be fighting the good fight NOW and not waiting to be called to action. We may not be drawing blood to save our Faith and our Church (yet), but we do need to work just as hard against all the smut and garbage that is in this world, especially the slings and arrows thrown against Catholics every day who are trying to do the right thing.

Pick up your sword of Baptism and fight for what you know is right - to do this you need to KNOW your Faith, LOVE your Faith, and stand up and say something when someone is making a dig about the Church, and not just sit idly by and sip your beer or Chardonnay at the summer picnic.

The Pope has not called for Crusades, but don’t you think we are in a war already as it is? What more do people really need to get out there and try to make a difference? 🤷

~Liza
 
Lev23 said:
I have a question. Where would this “crusade” be?
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I don’t think it’s too hard to imagine, 50 or 100 years from now, Europe has become majority Muslim and they start persecuting Christians, destroying Churches etc.

The Pope might then call for the rest of the Christian world (Latin America, North America, Africa, maybe Asia by then) to drive out the Muslims.

Not so far fetched.

If they dynamite the Sistine Chapel (like those Buddahs in Afghanistan) a Crusade wouldn’t be justified?

Count me in.

God Bless
 
Lev23 said:
This has got to be the weirdest thread ever on this forum.
:whacky: :dancing: :hypno: :hmmm:

Let me guess, those who actually said yes to this question would probably opt to wear full armor, complete with sword and shield and drink ale out of leather mugs.

Go get 'em tigers!

ggrrrrrr!
Click to expand...
Nah, I’d take an AH-1Z Cobra helicopter and utilize my 20mm canon, 2.75 or 5 inch rockets, and my hellfire missiles. It’s the modern day cavalry don’t ya know.
 
catechumen08 said:
Here’s a question I’ve been thinking about. If the Pope called for the Crusades again, would you join?

Please be gentle.
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A gentle Crusade. Hmmm.

Reminds me of a poster I saw in college: the Crusaders are beseining a muslim city, the muslims look down from the walls, and the Crusader captain is saying “Hello. We’d like to talk to you about Jesus” (it was a poster for a Bible Study group).
 
Contarini said:
That’s almost unbelievable. The battles in the Old Testament break the just war doctrine to shreds. They were holy wars of annihilation (at least the battles fought in the conquest of Canaan–other battles, such as Asa’s defeat of an invading Kushite army, or Jephthah’s war against the Ammonites, do meet just war criteria). They cannot be used as a precedent for Christians. Are you suggesting that just war involves the slaughter of women and children?
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I’d have to agree with you here.

The only thing that made some of the Old Testament wars and actions “just” was the Pillar of Smoke and Fire that was traveling with the Israelites.

I’m not sure I could ever do it, and thank heaven its not likely to ever happen, but if God Himself is leading the troops and says: “Wipe them all out they are an evil people that will bring destrution to the nations if you do not.” I’m think maybe we should do what we are told.

It didn’t seem to work out to well for the Israelites when they decided they’d take the women for their wives instead of following God’s orders.

That said, I’m not expecting a prophet of God for whom God provides proofs like raining down fire from heaven in response to his prayer is going to show up on my doorstep tomorrow either.

Chuck
 
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