The Crusades

[SanJudas]

I would like to dispell at least somewhat the common misconception that the majority of the Crusaders were some kind of marauders or bandits hell-bent on getting land or booty:

From Wikipedia: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Crusade
(Yes, I know, Wikipedia…but it’s the best I can do on such short notice.)

“However, current research suggests that although Urban promised crusaders spiritual as well as material benefit, the primary aim of most crusaders was spiritual rather than material gain. Moreover, recent research by Jonathan Riley-Smith instead shows that the crusade was an immensely expensive undertaking, affordable only to those knights who were already fairly wealthy, such as Hugh of Vermandois and Robert Curthose, who were relatives of the French and English royal families, and Raymond of Toulouse, who ruled much of southern France. Even then, these wealthy knights had to sell much of their land to relatives or the church before they could afford to participate. Their relatives, too, often had to impoverish themselves in order to raise money for the crusade. As Riley-Smith says, “there really is no evidence to support the proposition that the crusade was an opportunity for spare sons to make themselves scarce in order to relieve their families of burdens”.[33]”

 

[Dauphin]

From the perspective of Roman Catholicism, should violence be met with violence? Or should the other cheek be turned?

Here’s St. Thomas Aquinas on the subject:

newadvent.org/summa/3040.htm#article1

 

[SanJudas]

From the perspective of Roman Catholicism, should violence be met with violence? Or should the other cheek be turned?

The Church has always allowed for self-defense, William, especially coming to the aid of others. Even today no Church official has seriously challenged St.Thomas Aquinas’s Just War Doctrine.

 

[William_II]

Was Christ not of a peaceful nature? Are we not called to be like Him?

 

[Dauphin]

Was Christ not of a peaceful nature? Are we not called to be like Him?

Yes! The purpose of a just war is the pursuit of peace. Here’s how Aquinas puts it:

“Those who wage war justly aim at peace, and so they are not opposed to peace, except to the evil peace, which Our Lord “came not to send upon earth” (Matthew 10:34). Hence Augustine says (Ep. ad Bonif. clxxxix): “We do not seek peace in order to be at war, but we go to war that we may have peace. Be peaceful, therefore, in warring, so that you may vanquish those whom you war against, and bring them to the prosperity of peace.””

 

[SanJudas]

Was Christ not of a peaceful nature? Are we not called to be like Him?

He certainly was. Remember, though, that he did find it necessary to use a whip to drive the merchants and moneylenders out of the temple. Obviously he had good reason to do so and so should we, if we ever find it necessary to utilize violence.

Violence should always be a last recourse in any situation. Having my lands overrun, my women taken into harems, and my religion overtaxed or even prohibited would seem to me to allow for self-defense, violent self-defense if needed.

We often hear that St. Francis of Assissi walked into a Muslim camp to preach to the Sultan Al-Kamil about Christ. The Sultan respected St. Francis’s arguments, but did he convert? Did any of his soldiers? No. That Crusade, the Fifth, continued. Sometimes there is no other recourse.

 

[JuanCarlos]

Deus Vult!

 

[catholic101]

Deus Vult! Except for the Fourth “Crusade” which really wasn’t a crusade towards the end.

 

[RussAuburn]

Was Christ not of a peaceful nature? Are we not called to be like Him?

Tonight I finished watching a DVD of the miniseries, “Holocaust”. Your questions made me ponder: Should people have chosen to stand by quietly while Hitler killed millions of defenseless Jews in his quest to wipe them off the face of the earth? Or should his actions have been accepted as God’s perfect will for mankind?

 

[Hesychios]

Deus Vult! Except for the Fourth “Crusade” which really wasn’t a crusade towards the end.

It started out bad. It should not even be ranked among the crusades.

It also began the process of turning peoples minds away from the liberation of Jerusalem, it justified the concept that carrying the cross in war in any direction was just as important and that is what happened. Jerusalem thus became just one of many cause clamoring for resources and this dissipated the energies of Europe.

 

[Genesis315]

While the wars may have been just in cause (it is a prudential decision up for debate), the soldiers committed grave abuses along the way that were strongly condemned by the Pope at the time.

 

[Rogerteder]

“Deus vult” means “God wills it.” Does the Holy Trinity want humans to kill other humans?

Yes, sometimes.

 

[patrick457]

Was Christ not of a peaceful nature? Are we not called to be like Him?

I’ll put my answer in a concise manner: “Christ preached peace, not pacifism.”

(And yes, I’m now starting to think that peace, in the truest sense of the word, and pacifism, are very different beasts which are oftentimes confused with each other by many)